Wouldn’t a fixed mag not fail the new law’s test criteria and therefore not be grandfathered? (This may depend on the type of fixed mag lower and the copy/duplicate semantics)
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Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing
- Thread starter CrackPot
- Start date
I am also under this impression. You’d have to make it detachable TOMORROW and then be grandfathered due to being detachable mag semi auto. No?
CrackPot
NES Member
You are making things up that are not in the law. It does not require that it is in some type of ASW configuration. ANY gun lawfully owned on 8/1/24, even if configured as an assault style weapon once the new law takes effect, is NOT illegal to possess. That is what 131M says.
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I just have a question of curiosity , how much money did the governor spend on all of this research ?
So according to your interpretation.
Under current law it stays fixed mag with evil features… unpinned brace and muzzle device.
As of 8/1 I can take out the set screw and now the mag is detachable and I can keep evil features?
Interesting.
I think this could easily be argued either way. I see how you are putting emphasis on the firearm being lawfully possessed. I also realize that on 8/1 there is still no ASF language in force from Section 16. But on 10/24/24 looking back, your fixed mag was NOT an ASF on 8/1, and I can see it being argued by the state that this section 71 is only exempting firearms that were.
But, I also maintain that nothing in the law says you have to remain in a “previously lawful” state to maintain grandfathering so I suppose your interpretation is the more consistent interpretation regarding the fluidity compliance/status.
131M (a) No person shall possess, own, offer for sale, sell or otherwise transfer in the commonwealth or import into the commonwealth an assault-style firearm, or a large capacity feeding device.
(B) Subsection (a) shall not apply to an assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issued under section 131 or by a holder of a license to sell under section 122; provided, that the assault-style firearm shall be registered in accordance with section 121B and serialized in accordance with section 121C.
(C) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is: (i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device; (ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent; (iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair; (iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or (v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L. A person authorized under this subsection to possess a large capacity feeding device may only transfer the device to an heir or devisee, a person residing outside the commonwealth, or a licensed dealer.
Toddler legalese (possessed ON September 13, 1994 - Has anyone here purchased a standard mag on that date only that still has it?????
(B) Subsection (a) shall not apply to an assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issued under section 131 or by a holder of a license to sell under section 122; provided, that the assault-style firearm shall be registered in accordance with section 121B and serialized in accordance with section 121C.
(C) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994 only if such possession is: (i) on private property owned or legally controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device; (ii) on private property that is not open to the public with the express permission of the property owner or the property owner’s authorized agent; (iii) while on the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or gunsmith for the purpose of lawful repair; (iv) at a licensed firing range or sports shooting competition venue; or (v) while traveling to and from these locations; provided, that the large capacity feeding device is stored unloaded and secured in a locked container in accordance with sections 131C and 131L. A person authorized under this subsection to possess a large capacity feeding device may only transfer the device to an heir or devisee, a person residing outside the commonwealth, or a licensed dealer.
Toddler legalese (possessed ON September 13, 1994 - Has anyone here purchased a standard mag on that date only that still has it?????
chris_1001
NES Member
Well if it was actually labeled with one of those old punch label makers then it’s definitely pre ban.
Jenska22
NES Member
80% serialized and efa'd by 10/23?? I thought you'd need new (their) #'s after 8/1? Can't you make up the numbers if you efa them NOW.
My other favorite is "10rd 50 Beowulf Magazine" just put a few dummies in it for storage.
CrackPot
NES Member
As of 10/23 when the new law takes effect, not 8/1.
Correct, you don’t have to remain compliant with the old law once the new one takes effect. And anything legally owned under the old law is legal to keep owning. Anything grandfathered can be as ASW as you want because it’s exempt.
The corner case/catch I see with fixed mags is that it’s legal to own before/after as is, but because it’s not an ASW under the new law/test it’s legal to own but not exempt from the new ASW rules because it did not trigger grandfathering by failing the ASW test and therefore it must stay in a configuration that’s compliant with the new rules.
Law is not in force until 10/23 so serialization can be done beforehand. After that one must wait for the system to be live.
After 10/23, do we need to keep pinned stocks and p&w muzzle devices on rifles?
lord_bacon
NES Member
On a side note, I am taking this from another thread that I posted this in, I think GOAL may have possibly changed their opinion on the 7/20 date, or they have conflicting info on their site.
The more recently updated page that talks about the H4885 timeline says this on the grandfathering:
Assault Style Firearms
7/20/2016 – GOAL thinks this is a meaningless date in the language; coincides with then-Attorney General Healey’s “enforcement notice” regarding so-called enumerated and duplicates and copies of “assault weapons” now referred to as “assault-style firearms” (ASFs) in the new statute.
9/13/1994 – Grandfather date only applies to “pre-ban” “large capacity” magazines. Any such magazines that were possessed within the Commonwealth** on or before that date are legal to possess and transfer in the Commonwealth with an LTC.
8/1/24 – Grandfather date for any “assault-style firearms” possessed, purchased and “registered*” on or before 8/1/24 preventing them from being “unlawful” according to the new law. Applies to enumerated ASFs, duplicates and copies, as well as those that meet the new “2 scary features” test; so all ASFs; including unfinished or home-built ASFs.
**Another NES user pointed out there is some discrepancy here between their mag description and the law - that the law doesn't not specify "in the commonwealth", but I have not read that section recently, and my eyes are to the point of bleeding if I continue to attempt to reach this monstrosity of a bill... this thing kills brains cells, I literally feel dumber every time I read this thing.
The more recently updated page that talks about the H4885 timeline says this on the grandfathering:
Assault Style Firearms
7/20/2016 – GOAL thinks this is a meaningless date in the language; coincides with then-Attorney General Healey’s “enforcement notice” regarding so-called enumerated and duplicates and copies of “assault weapons” now referred to as “assault-style firearms” (ASFs) in the new statute.
9/13/1994 – Grandfather date only applies to “pre-ban” “large capacity” magazines. Any such magazines that were possessed within the Commonwealth** on or before that date are legal to possess and transfer in the Commonwealth with an LTC.
8/1/24 – Grandfather date for any “assault-style firearms” possessed, purchased and “registered*” on or before 8/1/24 preventing them from being “unlawful” according to the new law. Applies to enumerated ASFs, duplicates and copies, as well as those that meet the new “2 scary features” test; so all ASFs; including unfinished or home-built ASFs.
**Another NES user pointed out there is some discrepancy here between their mag description and the law - that the law doesn't not specify "in the commonwealth", but I have not read that section recently, and my eyes are to the point of bleeding if I continue to attempt to reach this monstrosity of a bill... this thing kills brains cells, I literally feel dumber every time I read this thing.
Jenska22
NES Member
300 EFA #'s from the time I entered my P80 9mm until I did my p80 .22lr
What about grandfathered rifles?
I deleted my post because post 10/23 I don’t know if any FFL will be offering a MA compliant semi auto rifle that would have no barrel shroud, a pinned muzzle device, a fixed or pinned stock, a fixed mag, and a pistol grip.
With the grandaddy clause you can have an actual ASW.
So it’s safe to say the laws and getting “better” feature wise for grandfathered rifles…..But shittier for new rifles.
That’s my understanding now with some tiny concern for risk associated before the 10/23 date of enactment.
The CMMG Dissent BR4 and Sig MCX Regulator were mentioned as an option but is Ma compliance work legal to do after 10/23? If from the factory there are more than 2 features can such a semi-auto rifle be configured to not be an ASW by a Ma Licensee and be sold to Ma share croppers? Idk.
Looking at this reference pic I wonder how ATF will handle the Ma law in the interim. Depending on the election I would love to have a few ASW “semi-auto pistols” beforehand.
Rob Boudrie
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There is a problem when positions are stated as fact.
GOALs statement that the healy date in the law has no effect is just that - a position, not a determination or sound legal advice a lawyer would give to protect his client. Those who know they don't know may know more than those who do not know what they do not know.
This issue is not "did Healy have the authoritiah to issue her ban?", but "it is legal to establish a cutoff date in the past for grandfathering". The state cound have picked Arbor Day 2020 as the cutoff date and the legal question would be the same. Even a jusicial finding that Healy did not have the authority to change the law with a notice would not also establish the lack of authority for the legislature to establish a retroactive grandfathering date.
With the usual caveat of "this is my understanding, but it is only that - my understanding, not an official interpretation and got guaranteed to be correct".
The risk is that they may get added to the ‘ASW roster’ at a later date and banned that way (with no grandfathering)
So assumption is on 10/23 that a rifle made compliant under the old AWB and possessed in Commonwealth prior to 8/1, would then be able to have a flash hider, adjustable stock and be exempt from the feature test as now it is Grandfathered and the same as a Pre94 rifle?
Flash hiders are not an evil feature in the “Assault-style firearm” definition, so they’re fine no matter what.
MaxStravinsky
NES Member
Does this mean that after 10/23 I can have an adjustable stock on my M&P15-22?
Rob Boudrie
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The store has the ability to print a copy of the FA10 for the transfer from their dealer MIRCS account.
