Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

So peasants will have to remember who/where they purchased a firearm 15, 20, etc years ago?
I purchased all of my firearms from a nice guy called Nuna Bidness on the universally known date of Go Eff Yourself

What’s the chance this “registration” shit gets tossed in court?
Unless the state pulls back hard on the Canjura, pretty good
Federally, extremely likely but over a much longer timeline.
 
Not only are they not in a grey area, you cannot legally personally manufacture a firearm at this time as you are required to request and receive the serial number prior to start of manufacture.
And just as a point of clarification (for ancient fuzzy me), am I correct in saying that "Privately Made Firearms" in MA law are only those that start with unserialized frames or lower receivers?

Any build that starts with a manufacturer-serialized frame or lower receiver cannot be a "Privately Made Firearm" under MA law... correct? 🤔
 
Then you need to buy some legally possessed on 8/1 lowers. Not going to be cheap...
They're still cheap right now relative compared to pre 94 garbage... but that clock is likely ticking.
No. Read the post above you!

Seriously… WTF?

This is a fed thing.

It's debatable as to whether a declaration in some retarded MA bullshit portal means anything.

You could hypothetically have that lower, it becomes a pistol, but he decided before tge 7 days are up to turn it into a rifle and then registered it as such. Federally under that circumstance there's nothing preventing him from reverting. The feds don't care about mass's shitty paperwork. Which if it was never built out never represented a change in the makeup of the actual gun.

Besides this is firmly in the "not worth caring about" land if there's otherwise nothing f***y going on. Someone find me fed case law on this that doesn’t involve a dealer. Itd be fun reading because much like USC 922R it's firmly in DSP contortion land.

If the gun was ever traced its going to come back with a final disposition at handoff of other. That's all you'd really need to get reasonable doubt. Unless he was stupid enough to like post it on Facebook from the trunk of his car assembled as a rifle 10 mins after the transfer or something similarly insane. 🤣
 
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Subsection e says all firearms shall be registered, but again, it stipulates “in accordance with this section”. And in accordance with the section only stipulates when import, purchase, acquisition (transfers described in subsection b), manufacture or assembly.
429 (e) Whoever fails to register a firearm in violation of subsection (a),
387 Section 121B.(a)(1) The department of criminal justice information services shall develop and maintain a real time electronic firearms registration system. All firearms possessed, manufactured or assembled in the commonwealth shall be registered in accordance with this section.






So yes. ALL firearms need to be considered for the subsection an and b requirements. But take a look at your existing firearms, do they fall in any of those subsection a and b buckets that require registration in accordance with this section?

Firearm registrations explicitly apply to those instance of obtaining or making firearms listed, and the registration shall be done within 7 days of such event. So I’m sure any obtained after the law went into effect will have to retroactively be done once the system is online.

But nothing in this section seems to require retroactive registration of currently owned firearms. Any reference to “all firearms shall be registered” are qualified with “in accordance with this section”. And the section doesn’t say:

“Firearm registration shall be completed at the time of firearm import, purchase, acquisition, manufacture or assembly, or any firearms possessed on the date this law is enacted

Or similar wording.
The "possessed" part of Section 121B(a)(1) is a current requirement - any firearm you currently possess in the state must be registered unless exempted by another (sub) section.
121B(a)(2) describes exceptions to the requirement to immediately register as soon as possession starts.

Yes, tell us how to do it later, as in “here is how you access the system and perform the required registrations”. The law itself already explicitly states which events trigger registration.

I’m guessing you’re referring to Section 121B. (a)(1) and (a)(2). Yes, (a)(1) is just saying “firearms need to be registered in accordance with this section using the real time database and need to contain the following information.” (A)(2) says what events trigger a registration and how long you have to register (once the system is online). (A)(2) does not include a catch for existing firearms already possessed.
121B(a)(2) doesn't include anything for items already possessed since as a Mass resident you are required to have 100% of any firearms you possess registered as soon as section 157's delay expires with only a few exceptions like a loan of under 7 days.

As of this moment you are required to have any of your firearms possessed in Mass registered - the state simply cannot enforce it until Section 157's delay expires.
Any new firearm you acquire by any method, manufacture or assemble after the electronic registry goes live must be immediately registered and doesn't have the 1 year delay.
 
And just as a point of clarification (for ancient fuzzy me), am I correct in saying that "Privately Made Firearms" in MA law are only those that start with unserialized frames or lower receivers?

Any build that starts with a manufacturer-serialized frame or lower receiver cannot be a "Privately Made Firearm" under MA law... correct? 🤔
You can purchase a serialized but unfinished frame/receiver so the answer is maybe.
The law doesn't address this fact so who knows how it will be handled.
 
Looking back through the new registration law… it appears as though any currently owned firearms do not need to be registered. The law stipulates registering “import, purchase, acquisition, manufacture or assembly”.

As far as I can see, the law says nothing about registering what you already possess at the time of the law going into effect.

It also seems like any firearms purchased before the new system is put into place may also be exempt, but that might be a grey area.

I'm a big fan of exploiting poorly written law. But this isn't one of those cases.

"shall" means "must" in this context, and not "only in the future"

"shall" is used to mean "must" all over regulations and law and contracts, without any timing constraints.

Plus, if you were to try to argue in court "I don't need to register any guns I already had before the law passed" you'd get the same treatment that people who refuse to pay taxes or get drivers licences get when they claim sovereign citizenship: "You know what we meant, you're being deliberately obtuse because you think you're clever enough to get away with something. Guilty."

EDIT to add:

According to Mrs. Milktree (who found this linguistic discussion interesting) a lot of English speaking countries are starting to use "must" instead of "shall" because of this exact confusion.

"Shall" technically means "will" or "in the future will", but it's been used to mean "must" in contracts and law for so long it has taken on a second meaning: "must"
 
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I'm a big fan of exploiting poorly written law. But this isn't one of those cases.

"shall" means "must" in this context, and not "only in the future"

"shall" is used to mean "must" all over regulations and law and contracts, without any timing constraints.

Plus, if you were to try to argue in court "I don't need to register any guns I already had before the law passed" you'd get the same treatment that people who refuse to pay taxes or get drivers licences get when they claim sovereign citizenship: "You know what we meant, you're being deliberately obtuse because you think you're clever enough to get away with something. Guilty."
Shall not be infringed
 
I’m not sure if I should post this here or in the hunting sub forum. A friend asked me a question I couldn’t answer. He’s a Mass resident and FID holder and wants to know if he can still hunt with his semi-auto shotgun, or if he needs to switch to a pump action. He realizes he should have changed to LTC as his last renewal, but like many was blindsided by this.
 
121B(a)(2) doesn't include anything for items already possessed since as a Mass resident you are required to have 100% of any firearms you possess registered as soon as section 157's delay expires with only a few exceptions like a loan of under 7 days.

I'm really curious how loans will factor into the "no more than four sales per year" restriction.

If I loan a gun to a friend and I know it's going to be for a couple weeks, or I "loan" my entire collection to someone I trust because I'm going to be out of the country or between houses for several months, those shouldn't count against my four yearly sales. If the registration database doesn't have a distinction between "loan" and "sale", it's going to be a big mess.

If it does have a distinction, there will need to be separate fields for "owner" and "possessor" (akin to car's "owner address" and "garaged address")

The other option is that they make it illegal to loan a gun to someone for more than seven days; all loans of over seven days are considered "transfers".

But that's not what the law says. The law is pretty clear that "loan" and "transfer" are different things.
 
I’m not sure if I should post this here or in the hunting sub forum. A friend asked me a question I couldn’t answer. He’s a Mass resident and FID holder and wants to know if he can still hunt with his semi-auto shotgun, or if he needs to switch to a pump action. He realizes he should have changed to LTC as his last renewal, but like many was blindsided by this.
He’s lawfully able to do so with his semiauto according to current hunting regs until his FID expires.
 
We are all sitting here having watched a troupe of monkeys scrawl words into a steaming pile of monkey shit with a stick and now trying to make sense of it’s meaning.
I need an animated gif of either like Tatu or a small monkey punching roger moore directly in the groin everytime somebody goes firmly into the gay zone.
 

The "possessed" part of Section 121B(a)(1) is a current requirement - any firearm you currently possess in the state must be registered unless exempted by another (sub) section.
121B(a)(2) describes exceptions to the requirement to immediately register as soon as possession starts.


121B(a)(2) doesn't include anything for items already possessed since as a Mass resident you are required to have 100% of any firearms you possess registered as soon as section 157's delay expires with only a few exceptions like a loan of under 7 days.

As of this moment you are required to have any of your firearms possessed in Mass registered - the state simply cannot enforce it until Section 157's delay expires.
Any new firearm you acquire by any method, manufacture or assemble after the electronic registry goes live must be immediately registered and doesn't have the 1 year delay.

You’re just inferring that about subsection 121B(a)(2). The subsection does not state that. It states that registration must be completed when….

Section 157 is the closest thing supporting what you’re saying about currently possessed firearms, but it also says to register all firearms in accordance with this act. And subsection 121B(a)(2) certainly seems like the only subsection that actually details what triggers a firearm registration.

The law does not explicitly state that any firearms possessed as of the enactment of this act, must be registered.
 
I’m not sure if I should post this here or in the hunting sub forum. A friend asked me a question I couldn’t answer. He’s a Mass resident and FID holder and wants to know if he can still hunt with his semi-auto shotgun, or if he needs to switch to a pump action. He realizes he should have changed to LTC as his last renewal, but like many was blindsided by this.
He is good until his FID expires
He should apply for his LTC NOW
2424 SECTION 153. A valid license to carry a firearm issued under sections 131 or 131F of chapter 140 of the General Laws, a valid firearm identification card under section 129B of said chapter 140 or a valid license to sell under section 122 of said chapter 140, shall remain valid until the expiration, suspension or revocation of said license and shall entitle the holder to possess the firearms authorized by the license at the time it was last issued or renewed.

Once his FID expires he will be in illegal possession since his new card will not cover the semi-auto stuff.
He doesn't want to rely on the clause extending validity during renewal since he will be applying for a different license not actually renewing so his FID will expire on his birthday.
 
You’re just inferring that about subsection 121B(a)(2). The subsection does not state that. It states that registration must be completed when….

Section 157 is the closest thing supporting what you’re saying about currently possessed firearms, but it also says to register all firearms in accordance with this act. And subsection 121B(a)(2) certainly seems like the only subsection that actually details what triggers a firearm registration.

The law does not explicitly state that any firearms possessed as of the enactment of this act, must be registered.
No, 121B(a)(1) clearly states that "All firearms possessed, manufactured or assembled in the commonwealth shall be registered"

The "in accordance" is the method of registration not the timing when it came into possession or what needs to be registered.

121B(a)(2) grants exception to the immediate requirement to register for certain acquisition methods.
Anything you possess that doesn't meet 121B(a)(2)'s exceptions must be registered to be legally possessed except for a loan less than 7 days (After that the loan "transaction" will need to be recorded in the registry)

No one here cares if you comply or not with the registry - But the requirement is that anything in your possession that meets the definition of firearm shall be registered once Section 157's delay is over. And the delay for firearms that come into possession by any means after the registry goes live have an immediate requirement unless delayed by 121B(a)(2).
 
Any build that starts with a manufacturer-serialized frame or lower receiver cannot be a "Privately Made Firearm" under MA law... correct? 🤔

“Privately made firearm”, a firearm manufactured or assembled by an individual who is not a licensed manufacturer; provided, however, that “privately made firearm” shall not include firearms manufactured or assembled by persons licensed under section 122 in the course of their business activities.

“Assemble”, to fit together a firearm’s component parts; provided, however, that “assemble” shall not include firearm reassembly, repair or the fitting of special barrels, stocks or trigger mechanisms to firearms.

It would seem that even assembling a stripped frame would be a “privately made firearm”. They don’t make distinction for serialized or unserialized, so it’s unclear how someone would comply if the PMF already has a serial (from a manufacturer or otherwise). They probably meant “untraceable firearm”.

(c) No person shall manufacture or assemble a privately made firearm without: (i) obtaining a unique serial number from the department of criminal justice information services prior to manufacture or assembly; (ii) serializing the firearm with the obtained serial number during manufacture or assembly; and (iii) registering the firearm with the department of criminal justice information services in accordance with section 121B within 7 days of the firearm’s manufacture or assembly.
 
Just put "unknown" or leave it blank (if the form lets you do that)

So peasants will have to remember who/where they purchased a firearm 15, 20, etc years ago?

What’s the chance this “registration” shit gets tossed in court?
Let's hope that it allows you to leave the source blank, as registration does now.

Someone on NES (many years ago) reported having BATFE and local police at his door since he had filled out a registration showing that he bought a gun from an individual (FTF) who lived in a different state. He eventually convinced them that no crime occurred as the seller was a C&R FFL, but the forms on the FRB website have no way to indicate that. I have a number of C&R guns that I want to sell (I now live in Free America) and I have a MA subject with a C&R FFL that is interested. If the form MUST have a seller on it, I won't sell anything to anyone in MA even if it would be a C&R to C&R FFL transfer.
 
Someone on NES (many years ago) reported having BATFE and local police at his door since he had filled out a registration showing that he bought a gun from an individual (FTF) who lived in a different state. He eventually convinced them that no crime occurred as the seller was a C&R FFL,

Seller? Seller is irrelevant, isn't it? The BUYER needs to be an FFL03/C&R holder to make it legal. (and the gun has to be a C&R gun)
 
It would seem that even assembling a stripped frame would be a “privately made firearm”. They don’t make distinction for serialized or unserialized, so it’s unclear how someone would comply if the PMF already has a serial (from a manufacturer or otherwise). They probably meant “untraceable firearm”.
A frame is a firearm so the serial is the frames serial - no new serial required since you didn't personally make the already serialized frame/receiver (this isn't a PMF even under federal guidelines)

The term "privately made" is just the legislature's retardedness showing since the proper term is privately manufactured.
 
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