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Reloading .223

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Marcus99

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I'm gonna be building an AR soon and would like to reload for it. I already reload for my handguns in 9mm Luger & Steyr/.40/.380/.38 & .357, but this is my first rifle and first time reloading for a rifle cartridge. I've heard the process is different in a few regards, notablely that I would need to lube the case or just the neck (inside and out), the need to chamfer and debur the head, and case trimming. A questions for the experts here:

I - What method of lubing tends to be the best? I've read of using a pab, spray bottle and a few other one's.
II - What is the deal with case trimming? Why does it need to be done, how do I do it and what tools do I need?
III - Correct me if I'm wrong but 5.56 is a hotter version of .223. Is the case any different, do shooters actually reload 5.56 or just load .223 hotter, and is the primer in fact more difficult to knock out or is that just for military surplus ammo? I don't think I've ever actually seen 5.56 for sale outside of gun shows anyway.
IV - Right now I figure 1k rounds of regular 115gr 9mm ball is about $240 at Walmart. It costs me about $90 to reload 1k rounds of 124gr lead 9mm, so I'm saving a lot and still able to shoot a lot more. Can anybody break down what I could expect to save in terms of reloading .223 instead of buying it (not counting stuff like die's, initial brass etc.)?
V - Handgun brass seems to last forever, I've heard this isn't the case with rifle. How many averagely charged loads can I realistically expect to get out of my brass?

Sorry for the long questions, I like to thoroughly research stuff before I dive in. Thanks for your help.
 
the cheapest ammo I have purchased for my AR ran me 13 cents per round and it shot minute of something @ 100 yards. I load for my AR useing Hornady bulk 55grain FMJ for plinking for the same and get 2" pretty easily.
 
Marcus99 said:
...that I would need to lube the case or just the neck (inside and out), the need to chamfer and debur the head, and case trimming.
Click to expand...
Marcus99 said:
I - What method of lubing tends to be the best? I've read of using a pab, spray bottle and a few other one's
Click to expand...

I wouldn't lube the inside of the neck, the powder will stick to it and it'll be hard to clean off. Plus you could contaminate your primer. I just wrap some bronze wool around a nylon brush, put it in my drill press and polish the inside of the neck. Not necessary, but I find it helps avoid having the expander ball stick. For the outside of the case, I just use a rag w/ lube. No need to go crazy, I find that you really don't need much. Don't forget to clean the lube off, I use Simple Green and water on a paper towel.

Marcus99 said:
II - What is the deal with case trimming? Why does it need to be done, how do I do it and what tools do I need?
Click to expand...

Bottleneck rifle cartridges headspace off the shoulder. When you fire the brass, it grows in length. When you size it you push back the shoulder and the neck gets that additional length. If it gets too long the neck will get forced into the rifling and you can get pressure spikes. I have a Lyman trimmer and a Wilson trimmer. Lots of company's make good ones. After you trim, you'll get a rough edge so you need to chamfer the outside and inside of the neck. It's a pretty in expensive tool.

Marcus99 said:
III - Correct me if I'm wrong but 5.56 is a hotter version of .223. Is the case any different, do shooters actually reload 5.56 or just load .223 hotter, and is the primer in fact more difficult to knock out or is that just for military surplus ammo? I don't think I've ever actually seen 5.56 for sale outside of gun shows anyway.
Click to expand...

5.56 is a higher pressure round so if you load them hot, don't put them in a rifle pressure rated for .223. Military primers aren't that hard to knock out, but you'll have to trim the crimp off to seat new primers.


Marcus99 said:
IV - Right now I figure 1k rounds of regular 115gr 9mm ball is about $240 at Walmart. It costs me about $90 to reload 1k rounds of 124gr lead 9mm, so I'm saving a lot and still able to shoot a lot more. Can anybody break down what I could expect to save in terms of reloading .223 instead of buying it (not counting stuff like die's, initial brass etc.)?
Click to expand...

In bulk you can get .223 for around 35 cents apiece. I reload them for about 1/2 that (9 cent match grade bullet, 3 cent primer, 7 cents of powder). If your thrifty you can do better, I'm not the best reload supply shopper. I know people who do it for less than 13 cents. I should note that most handloads will be much better than your average bulk round. My handloads group at almost 1/3 the size of the bulk stuff.

Marcus99 said:
V - Handgun brass seems to last forever, I've heard this isn't the case with rifle. How many averagely charged loads can I realistically expect to get out of my brass?
Click to expand...

I don't know if there is a rule, but I would think 8 reloads is an average case life for a autoloading rifle and FL sizing. If you oversize the brass, you might only get 1 or 2 reloads. You have to look for signs. Typically you trim 0.005" to 0.015" each trimming. I wouldn't trim more than 0.050" or 0.060" off over the life of the case. Also check for loose primer pockets, cracked necks, signs of imminent case head separation (ring around the case head).

ETA: It'll get said but you have enough questions that I think you'd get alot out of a class.
 
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I didn't want to start a new thread, but I had a question about which powder to use in .223? I am going to use a Lee Auto Disk powder drop with the double disk option to be able to feed the 25 grains or so of powder required. I am wondering which type of powder would be the best to use with the Lee setup? I currently use IMR 4895 for my .308, but don't think it would feed too well in the Auto Disk. I was looking at Varget, or H335? Just wondering what you guys think would meter the best?
 
Nfdbrian said:
I didn't want to start a new thread, but I had a question about which powder to use in .223? I am going to use a Lee Auto Disk powder drop with the double disk option to be able to feed the 25 grains or so of powder required. I am wondering which type of powder would be the best to use with the Lee setup? I currently use IMR 4895 for my .308, but don't think it would feed too well in the Auto Disk. I was looking at Varget, or H335? Just wondering what you guys think would meter the best?
Click to expand...

I like A2230 for 55gr bullets.
 
I've been using AA 2230 in my Lee auto disk for my .223, and it meters very nice. I also have used TAC as well with no problems. I think any of the ball powders for .223 with the Lee auto disk with the double disk kit and you will be fine.
 
Thanks a bunch guys! I just read up on the AA2230, as I didn't know that it was designed for the .223 round. See you learn something new every day! Gonna go with the Hornady 55gr FMJBT bullets.
 
Varget is a nice all around choice for me. I get great results in all weather if I do my part.

Loading 6,500 rounds in a few weeks with Hornady bulk 55g FMJ. I'll have a blister from the ball, might need a roller handle.

Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.
 
I - What method of lubing tends to be the best? I've read of using a pad, spray bottle and a few other one's.

It depends on how many you're going to load. I like Imperial Sizing Die Wax when I'm loading 20 or less. Just get some on your fingers and handle the cases. I use a pad when I'm loading 20-100, and Dillon spray lube for large quantities.


II - What is the deal with case trimming? Why does it need to be done, how do I do it and what tools do I need?

The case neck stretches when you fire and when you resize the case. When it gets too long, it needs to be trimmed. Trimming all your cases to the same length can also make your groups smaller. If you just need to trim a few, the L.E. Wilson trimmer can't be beat. If you need to do a lot, a Giraud is (lots of) money well-spent.


III - Correct me if I'm wrong but 5.56 is a hotter version of .223. Is the case any different, do shooters actually reload 5.56 or just load .223 hotter, and is the primer in fact more difficult to knock out or is that just for military surplus ammo? I don't think I've ever actually seen 5.56 for sale outside of gun shows anyway.

You're sort of right. The NATO spec for 5.56 x 45 allows a higher chamber pressure than .223, the chambers are different (the 5.56 has more leade), and 5.56 chambers usually have a bit more headspace. Stick with the data for .223 and you'll be fine. Keep in mind that military brass is often thicker than commercial, and has less volume (resulting in higher pressure for the same amount of powder). Military cases also have a crimped primer. The crimp must be removed before reloading the case.

IV - Right now I figure 1k rounds of regular 115gr 9mm ball is about $240 at Walmart. It costs me about $90 to reload 1k rounds of 124gr lead 9mm, so I'm saving a lot and still able to shoot a lot more. Can anybody break down what I could expect to save in terms of reloading .223 instead of buying it (not counting stuff like die's, initial brass etc.)?

If you buy your components in bulk and you don't count brass, you can make .223 for about $170/1000.


V - Handgun brass seems to last forever, I've heard this isn't the case with rifle. How many averagely charged loads can I realistically expect to get out of my brass?

With .223, you can expect 4-6 loadings before the primer pockets start to loosen up. Less if you use Federal brass.
 
Ahhh yeah, there is a slight neck/shoulder dimension difference between the 223 & 5.56 and a difference in pressures. You should not shoot 5.56 in a 223 chamber. In your reloading book there should be 2 separate pages for the 2 rounds. And look at the case diagrams for the size differences. It is ok to shoot a 223 in the 5.56 chamber however.
 
Nfdbrian said:
I didn't want to start a new thread, but I had a question about which powder to use in .223? I am going to use a Lee Auto Disk powder drop with the double disk option to be able to feed the 25 grains or so of powder required. I am wondering which type of powder would be the best to use with the Lee setup? I currently use IMR 4895 for my .308, but don't think it would feed too well in the Auto Disk. I was looking at Varget, or H335? Just wondering what you guys think would meter the best?
Click to expand...

I use BLC-2 I buy in 8lb jugs. Works well ,inexpensive, and has a nice scent when firing round after round.
"I like the smell of gunpowder in the morning." Smells like X ring. :)
 
mac1911 said:
the cheapest ammo I have purchased for my AR ran me 13 cents per round and it shot minute of something @ 100 yards. I load for my AR useing Hornady bulk 55grain FMJ for plinking for the same and get 2" pretty easily.
Click to expand...

What is a "minute of something?"
 
Thanks for the replies, particularly Slowdive and Eddie. I'm using a BCM upper which by all indications is top notch so I should be good to go with 5.56. I reload on a turret press and take my time with my loads, typically 100-125rds an hour. I am alright with putting out small batches of .223 at a time, so the pad sounds like it will work for me. I don't plan on shooting my AR as much as my handguns, but if the cost savings are indeed like 50-60% on ammo then it's not gonna end up a safe queen either.

Case Trimming - Do you actually measure how much is taken off or just eyeball and estimate it? I'm gonna look into this process in greater depth.

This brings up another question that I think I'll start a separate thread for, but if I want to shoot beyond my ranges 150yards, where in NH can I do that besides joining another club? I've heard of sand pits and conservation land but I have zero experience with this type of thing. I know asking for peoples private or hidden shooting spots is kinda touching on a sensitive subject so please PM me if you can.

Great advice thank you
 
Marcus99 said:
Case Trimming - Do you actually measure how much is taken off or just eyeball and estimate it? I'm gonna look into this process in greater depth.
Click to expand...

I usually measure a couple in the lot to see where they are, but you can kinda tell when you put them in the trimmer. New brass and factory will generally need the most trimming b/c they are headspaced on the shorter end of the SAAMI spectrum and chamber reamers seem to be on the longer end, especially for autoloaders (my observation, not a fact)...so they tend to stretch alot after the first firing. If you do a good job matching your headspace to your chamber (I headspace mine ~.003" under the fired case dimension), then subsequent trimmings should only require a few thousandths and you'll generally get better case life.
 
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sir Eddiecoyle got it M.O.B. Minute of Burm I purchased several tins of .223 which I believe is early day wolf or silver bear. when I 1st got my AR. Function flawlessly but be bejeez if you could hit your own target let alone a group. Current production wolf shoots well out of my carbine though.
Im in my first year of reloading it has afforded me to shoot alot more. I still spend the same money as I would if I purchase factory ammo

OP: I like to prep brass in large quantities: RCBS lube die and lyman case prep center are my most recent purchases for this task. Im happy with them both.
I am not a fan of case prep though so I try to get as much done as I think I will shoot for the next few months.

As I up grade and when I get to processing my 30-06 brass(buckets of it) I should by then have some sort of electric trimmer. I have hand cranked several thousand to date.......its wearing thin.

I have a good amount of down time 3-4 nights a week so Im in no rush on any part of the reloading process.
 
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If you get RCBS,Redding or Dillon dies they have a carbide expander ball that makes life a lot easier on rezing cases. I'm suprised no one hs mentioned the military surplus powders uch as WCC844 and 846 for 223/5.56. you can buy it 8 lbs at a time a pretty decent prices.less haz mat and postage fees.
 
highlander said:
If you get RCBS,Redding or Dillon dies they have a carbide expander ball that makes life a lot easier on rezing cases. I'm suprised no one hs mentioned the military surplus powders uch as WCC844 and 846 for 223/5.56. you can buy it 8 lbs at a time a pretty decent prices.less haz mat and postage fees.
Click to expand...

Agree. I've been using WCC844 (supposed to be identical or nearly identical to H335) for awhile now. I've had no difficulties or surprises with it. I also have RCBS, Redding and Dillon .223 dies and have found the Dillon sizing/decapping die to be the most effective, followed closely by the Redding die.

Several people I know swear by Varget for accuracy shooting. I use it and like it although it doesn't meter as well for me as H335/WCC844.
 
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Marcus99 said:
Case Trimming - Do you actually measure how much is taken off or just eyeball and estimate it? I'm gonna look into this process in greater depth.
Click to expand...

You measure them.

The first time I prep a batch of brass, I usually set my trimmer up to trim my .223 cases to the SAAMI minimum (1.740"). Like Slowdive, I set up my sizing die to push the shoulder back 0.003" shorter than the chamber in my rifle. This results in less case stretching, so trimming ends up becoming a one-time step.

By the time the cases have stretched to the point that they need trimming again, the primer pockets have loosened up and it's time to retire the brass.
 
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Marcus, you really need to take the reloading class.

E/C will cover everything about reloading rifle calibers.

There are similarities between pistol and rifle, but there are also lots of differences.

You should know the what's and why's before setting out on that journey.
 
Am I doing it right?

b41e97ae.jpg
 
EddieCoyle said:
Think you used enough dynamite there Butch?
Click to expand...

That was the result of a stuck case (a BADLY stuck case) due to improper lubrication. I ruined a nice Forster sizing die trying to remove it.
 

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