Reverse Engineer Milsurp Match Ammo?

[Mountain]

Creedmoor .308 Match- I think my 'milsurps' like this stuff :

Self built Bula M14, 100 yards off the bench, irons:



Two 3-shot groups, group at center after going a couple clicks left.

Self built .308 M1:



Single shot at top warming up, then two 3 shot groups as in the above target.

Creedmoor loads their own with Lapua cases and Lapua 167 scenar bullets. No idea what the powder would be, but I'll pull one after Vermont and take a look. I'll get chrono data and measure the case w/ the RCBS gauge and get the OAL.

Am I missing anything?

(Stupid phone posted sideways)

 

[mac1911]

Creedmoor .308 Match- I think my 'milsurps' like this stuff :

Self built Bula M14, 100 yards off the bench, irons:

View attachment 207492

Two 3-shot groups, group at center after going a couple clicks left.

Self built .308 M1:

View attachment 207493

Single shot at top warming up, then two 3 shot groups as in the above target.

Creedmoor loads their own with Lapua cases and Lapua 167 scenar bullets. No idea what the powder would be, but I'll pull one after Vermont and take a look. I'll get chrono data and measure the case w/ the RCBS gauge and get the OAL.

Am I missing anything?

(Stupid phone posted sideways)

the creedmoor wit lapua is some grood stuff and at the moment a deal from creedmoor. I will venture out to say if creedmoor is getting a good enough deal on the lapua bullets and brass they are probably getting a good deal on the VV line of powders and most likely N140/150 powder?

 

[Mountain]

Thanks! That makes sense that it could be VV. Maybe I'll ask on CMP forums about the powder too. Prices for VV powder are not wallet friendly, however.

So this was very careful bench shooting to see what I could get with the ammo. Front benchrest is a little wide for these rifles so I jam my shooting glove between the rifles and the rest pad. Zero wind, light at the range was perfect today, and my eyes in decent shape today. Everything aligned...

3 shot groups always better than 5 or more, but still a nice indication of the potential.

Note the blank sheet of paper under the targets to help get better contrast for clear sighting on the bull.

edit-

Forgot to mention the M1 groups shot via single load device, but M14 groups shot via magazine feed.

Read some very solid reviews of this ammo. One stating sub MOA out of a M1A NM, which is basically what I built though mine has a non-NM rear sight.

One reviewer stated he talked to a rep who said the powder was some proprietary blend of Vihtavuori. Spot on, Mac.

 

[Mountain]

Pulled open a cartridge to see what's inside:

Here's a close-up of the powder:

That Vihtavuori powder look like any particular type? Case loaded with 43.2 grains of it. Seems to be similar surface area as Varget. A little larger diameter rod and more irregular surface, but a little shorter.

I don't see any evidence that it's a blend- appears to be a uniform powder.

 

[mac1911]

Pulled open a cartridge to see what's inside:

Here's a close-up of the powder:

That Vihtavuori powder look like any particular type? Case loaded with 43.2 grains of it. Seems to be similar surface area as Varget. A little larger diameter rod and more irregular surface, but a little shorter.

I don't see any evidence that it's a blend- appears to be a uniform powder.

here's the N150 I have but I would imagine the n134 n140 look close in form

 

[Mountain]

Thanks Mac-

Vihtavouri's load data shows 43.2 grains to be too hot for N135. This would have to be either N150 or N140. Your N150 looks a lot like what's in the cartridge, but as you say maybe the N140 looks similar.

 

[mac1911]

? IDK like I said I bought 1lb on sale when there was no varget to be found.
Maybe I will play with what's left in the new 762 M1

 

[Uzi2]

What's the point?

If you cannot positively identify the powder(which is likely one that you can't get as a consumer anyway) you are just guessing. You might as well work with known components and just work up a load for your rifle.

Guessing with powders is not a good approach to reloading.

 

[mac1911]

What's the point?

If you cannot positively identify the powder(which is likely one that you can't get as a consumer anyway) you are just guessing. You might as well work with known components and just work up a load for your rifle.

Guessing with powders is not a good approach to reloading.

this is true and is why I said "blended" powder which I guess is a poor term to use. If Creedmoor was buying VV powder directly from VV it would be a bulk canister think "large" bags holding 100s of pounds. These bulk powders are tested and they figure out what powder charge they need to achieve the Ammunition manufactures needs. So its not N135,n140,n150 but rather a "blend" of a bulk powder that will have a burn rate and pressure at X grains vs the stuff we get in the jugs that they "try" and keep consistent gor hobby reloaders... this is why many reloading manuals will tell you to back off your powder charges -X% with each new jug from a different lot.

im sure if you call Dennis DeMill im sure he can tell you what powder they use/

 

[Mountain]

What's the point?

If you cannot positively identify the powder(which is likely one that you can't get as a consumer anyway) you are just guessing. You might as well work with known components and just work up a load for your rifle.

Guessing with powders is not a good approach to reloading.

The point should be clear from the pics. Accuracy.

Achieving a safe load absolutely will not be guess work. I will load a powder known to be safe per Vihtavuori published data. After that, it needs to have a burn rate somewhere within the sweet spot for a gas gun to avoid beating the crap out of the op rod, yet cycle reliably. The next criteria are to minimize velocity extreme spread and standard deviation.

I have not used Vihtavuori and don't know what the various powders look like. If I can narrow it down visually, why not? The grains are barrel shaped. If one of the known safe powders is flake, spherical, or long rod shaped- that's not it.

As usual, I will try something and post results.

 

[mac1911]

The point should be clear from the pics. Accuracy.

Achieving a safe load absolutely will not be guess work. I will load a powder known to be safe per Vihtavuori published data. After that, it needs to have a burn rate somewhere within the sweet spot for a gas gun to avoid beating the crap out of the op rod, yet cycle reliably. The next criteria are to minimize velocity extreme spread and standard deviation.

I have not used Vihtavuori and don't know what the various powders look like. If I can narrow it down visually, why not? The grains are barrel shaped. If one of the known safe powders is flake, spherical, or long rod shaped- that's not it.

As usual, I will try something and post results.

Looking forward.