Son's first CCW..Recomedations Please..

[92G]

Yes there are certainly very specific situations where a laser would help. But the probability is so low that the money would be MUCH better spent on ammo and professional training. Again, just MHO.

ETA: My wife and I have spent lots of good money on lots of professional training. I have never even seen a class offered on shooting with a laser.

^^this

only reason i would consider laser is for intimidation factor. In the unlikely (but possible) scenario where perpetrator is intimidated by the laser such that discharging weapon isnt necessary then i can see the laser as quite useful. Otherwise pointless to me.

 

[NickyB]

G26 or G19.

I have a G19, a bit to big for my liking and I'm a bigger guy. Also note, I'm not used to carrying a gun so the G19 may be fine, I just need to get comfortable with it.

I will be buying either a G42 or G43 in the near future as a pocket gun, I cant carry to work with the G19 because I have a desk job and working around people all day, very uncomfortable to me.

 

[Horrible]

Glock 26

+1

 

[Bdh821]

So my 2 carry pistols are a S&W M&P Bodyguard 380 and a Glock 26 Gen4 depending on what I'm wearing. If I did it over again, I'd get whatever size Glock in .40 and get a KKM 9mm conversion barrel.

 

[LiveFreeAndDie]

G26 or G19.

Why not both? G26 makes a nice BUG.

 

[IvIax]

g43/g42 end/thread

 

[scatter]

g43/g42 end/thread

The OP said his son is a big guy, doesn't mind a bigger gun and intends to wear a shoulder holster. So, no.

I'm a Glock fanboi and have a G43 on order, which will bring my Glock stable to three. Not saying it's not a good gun. But for a first time CCW who intends to wear a shoulder holster, the 43 is not the best choice and certainly not the 42. IMO.

 

[jjman15]

Keep that mindset, forget Glocks (cue the glock fanboys). Especially in mass, you'd be overpaying for a used one. Also, IMO too wide for EDC.

A few Ma compliant ones i'd check out for everyday CC (including 90+ mid-summer days):
HK P2000SK (new price $650)
Sig P239
Walther PPS
Ruger LC9S
Sig P238/938
Kahr PM9

Just to name a few.

Am I the only one that hates Glocks & M&P's?

 

[NickyB]

Why not both? G26 makes a nice BUG.

If you got the cash for both, more power to ya!

If I could do it over again, I would probably buy the G26 over the 19.

I would 100% go with the G19 if I were wearing a shoulder holster though.

- - - Updated - - -

Keep that mindset, forget Glocks (cue the glock fanboys). Especially in mass, you'd be overpaying for a used one. Also, IMO too wide for EDC.

A few Ma compliant ones i'd check out for everyday CC (including 90+ mid-summer days):
HK P2000SK (new price $650)
Sig P239
Walther PPS
Ruger LC9S
Sig P238/938
Kahr PM9

Just to name a few.

Am I the only one that hates Glocks & M&P's?

Who says you have to buy a used one?

 

[mikem317]

Tell him to go to the range, try a bunch of them. Pick the one he likes best. </thread>

 

[NickyB]

The OP said his son is a big guy, doesn't mind a bigger gun and intends to wear a shoulder holster. So, no.

I'm a Glock fanboi and have a G43 on order, which will bring my Glock stable to three. Not saying it's not a good gun. But for a first time CCW who intends to wear a shoulder holster, the 43 is not the best choice and certainly not the 42. IMO.

Let me know how you like that 43.... I'm wondering about the recoil of the 9MM on such a small gun. May go 42 because of this but I would rather have a 9mm.

 

[scatter]

Let me know how you like that 43.... I'm wondering about the recoil of the 9MM on such a small gun. May go 42 because of this but I would rather have a 9mm.

Will do. Going on 5 weeks now since I ordered it through a LGS. I'm anxious to pick it up, even though I have to hand it over to my wife as soon as I get home with it.

 

[kingfisher]

Free advice, probably not even worth the price of admission, and just my opinion--lasers are not very useful. We have two. They sound cool, and they sell well to people who have never trained with them, but they don't add much in terms of self defense capability. It is very hard, if not impossible, to see the dot in daylight. Once it gets dark enough to see them, you start getting into target identification problems. In other words, if you can see the laser, you probably should be using a weapon light to ID your target and its background, in which case you don't really need the laser.

Yes there are certainly very specific situations where a laser would help. But the probability is so low that the money would be MUCH better spent on ammo and professional training. Again, just MHO.

ETA: My wife and I have spent lots of good money on lots of professional training. I have never even seen a class offered on shooting with a laser.

It can be difficult to see the dot of a red laser in sunlight, but I can see mine no problem indoors in a normally lit room (no target identification problems). Since I work and sleep most of the time indoors, I see value in having the option of a laser most of the time.

I see laser sights getting bashed here all the time, so I'd like everyone to consider this scenario: you get into a verbal altercation with a man who is 20 feet from you. He pulls out a knife, yells "I'm going to kill you!" and walks toward you.

Choice 1: you draw your pistol and aim center mass with a hard front sight focus. You'd rather look at the attacker, but this is what your professional training has taught you. As you're pressing the trigger, the man sees you have a gun, so he stops and drops the knife, but you don't see that because your hands are up in front of your eyes and in the way as you're pressing the trigger. Several people witness you shooting an unarmed man. What happens next will vary by state and responding officer, but your life will never be the same.

Choice 2: you draw your pistol and keeping your hands in a position where you can clearly see the assailant's torso and hands, you place the laser dot center mass. The man sees you have a gun (may even see the laser), so he stops and drops the knife (just like in Choice 1), but this time you can clearly see him drop the knife because you're looking directly at him the whole time (what most people would do instinctively anyway). Now you don't need to shoot him, and you've saved yourself a lot of legal hassle/bills.

I'm not saying that lasers are always the answer. Being proficient with iron sights is a must, but I'll take Choice 2 over Choice 1 any day.

 

[Varmint]

It can be difficult to see the dot of a red laser in sunlight, but I can see mine no problem indoors in a normally lit room (no target identification problems). Since I work and sleep most of the time indoors, I see value in having the option of a laser most of the time.

I see laser sights getting bashed here all the time, so I'd like everyone to consider this scenario: you get into a verbal altercation with a man who is 20 feet from you. He pulls out a knife, yells "I'm going to kill you!" and walks toward you.

Choice 1: you draw your pistol and aim center mass with a hard front sight focus. You'd rather look at the attacker, but this is what your professional training has taught you. As you're pressing the trigger, the man sees you have a gun, so he stops and drops the knife, but you don't see that because your hands are up in front of your eyes and in the way as you're pressing the trigger. Several people witness you shooting an unarmed man. What happens next will vary by state and responding officer, but your life will never be the same.

Choice 2: you draw your pistol and keeping your hands in a position where you can clearly see the assailant's torso and hands, you place the laser dot center mass. The man sees you have a gun (may even see the laser), so he stops and drops the knife (just like in Choice 1), but this time you can clearly see him drop the knife because you're looking directly at him the whole time (what most people would do instinctively anyway). Now you don't need to shoot him, and you've saved yourself a lot of legal hassle/bills.

I'm not saying that lasers are always the answer. Being proficient with iron sights is a must, but I'll take Choice 2 over Choice 1 any day.

Good point, hadn't thought of that.

 

[scatter]

It can be difficult to see the dot of a red laser in sunlight, but I can see mine no problem indoors in a normally lit room (no target identification problems). Since I work and sleep most of the time indoors, I see value in having the option of a laser most of the time.

I see laser sights getting bashed here all the time, so I'd like everyone to consider this scenario: you get into a verbal altercation with a man who is 20 feet from you. He pulls out a knife, yells "I'm going to kill you!" and walks toward you.

Choice 1: you draw your pistol and aim center mass with a hard front sight focus. You'd rather look at the attacker, but this is what your professional training has taught you. As you're pressing the trigger, the man sees you have a gun, so he stops and drops the knife, but you don't see that because your hands are up in front of your eyes and in the way as you're pressing the trigger. Several people witness you shooting an unarmed man. What happens next will vary by state and responding officer, but your life will never be the same.

Choice 2: you draw your pistol and keeping your hands in a position where you can clearly see the assailant's torso and hands, you place the laser dot center mass. The man sees you have a gun (may even see the laser), so he stops and drops the knife (just like in Choice 1), but this time you can clearly see him drop the knife because you're looking directly at him the whole time (what most people would do instinctively anyway). Now you don't need to shoot him, and you've saved yourself a lot of legal hassle/bills.

I'm not saying that lasers are always the answer. Being proficient with iron sights is a must, but I'll take Choice 2 over Choice 1 any day.

I guess it's all about what you train for, and what the situation is. If you train yourself to look for the laser dot when a threat appears, and your laser happens to be on and working at that point, and the light level is low enough that you can see the dot but it's not so dark that you can't ID your target, then I agree that a laser would be a good thing.

My point was that most situations do not meet all these criteria. I do not want to waste time looking for a laser dot when it might be a) not there b) not visible c) not sufficient to ID my target. If I train myself to look for it first, then probability says that I'll be slower on average than if I'm not looking for it. To each his own.

 

[drgrant]

It can be difficult to see the dot of a red laser in sunlight, but I can see mine no problem indoors in a normally lit room (no target identification problems). Since I work and sleep most of the time indoors, I see value in having the option of a laser most of the time.

I see laser sights getting bashed here all the time, so I'd like everyone to consider this scenario: you get into a verbal altercation with a man who is 20 feet from you. He pulls out a knife, yells "I'm going to kill you!" and walks toward you.

Choice 1: you draw your pistol and aim center mass with a hard front sight focus. You'd rather look at the attacker, but this is what your professional training has taught you. As you're pressing the trigger, the man sees you have a gun, so he stops and drops the knife, but you don't see that because your hands are up in front of your eyes and in the way as you're pressing the trigger. Several people witness you shooting an unarmed man. What happens next will vary by state and responding officer, but your life will never be the same.

Choice 2: you draw your pistol and keeping your hands in a position where you can clearly see the assailant's torso and hands, you place the laser dot center mass. The man sees you have a gun (may even see the laser), so he stops and drops the knife (just like in Choice 1), but this time you can clearly see him drop the knife because you're looking directly at him the whole time (what most people would do instinctively anyway). Now you don't need to shoot him, and you've saved yourself a lot of legal hassle/bills.

I'm not saying that lasers are always the answer. Being proficient with iron sights is a must, but I'll take Choice 2 over Choice 1 any day.

Intentionally introducing delay(s) into deploying and firing a handgun, just doesn't sound like a recipe for putting things in your favor. In both of these scenarios I see an episode of lazytown, I am thinking stephanie is going to come out and do a dance for us while you talk to the bad guy. If the shit hits the fan usually there's never enough time to begin with. Often the victim will be at a deficit of some sort or another. Hard sight picture? Did a butler pull up in a rolls royce and offer you a jar of grey poupon before you encountered this bad guy? Or maybe the bad guy decided to dance a jig with the knife in his hand before getting closer and threatening you, and at first you didn't do anything because you thought he was a traveling minstrel show. Regardless, it just seems like its a fairytale land. Most cases where people really need a gun, the situation goes from normal to 110% pure shit in less than a few seconds. That's not enough time to be fussing around with a laser, IMHO.

-Mike

 

[jjman15]

Who says you have to buy a used one?

He's in mass, unless his son is law enforcement he can't buy a glock new from a dealer (unless they knowingly break the law). You can buy one private sale and get killed on the price.

Some people get them via other means, skirting the system in some way.

Edit: I've heard at a local LGS some police officers are basically dealers regarding the amount of glocks they purchase for themselves and then sell at a markup via private sale. Basically a side business...can't say I wouldn't partake if I was law enforcement.

 

[Varmint]

Intentionally introducing delay(s) into deploying and firing a handgun, just doesn't sound like a recipe for putting things in your favor. In both of these scenarios I see an episode of lazytown, I am thinking stephanie is going to come out and do a dance for us while you talk to the bad guy. If the shit hits the fan usually there's never enough time to begin with. Often the victim will be at a deficit of some sort or another. Hard sight picture? Did a butler pull up in a rolls royce and offer you a jar of grey poupon before you encountered this bad guy? Or maybe the bad guy decided to dance a jig with the knife in his hand before getting closer and threatening you, and at first you didn't do anything because you thought he was a traveling minstrel show. Regardless, it just seems like its a fairytale land. Most cases where people really need a gun, the situation goes from normal to 110% pure shit in less than a few seconds. That's not enough time to be fussing around with a laser, IMHO.

-Mike

Yeah, it seems for the bed-side weapon you don't really want to have a safety, light, laser and (in Mass) combination lock, all of which you have to remember to operate correctly when adrenaline is pumping through your veins, in the dark, with people screaming. i was tempted to get a TLR-4 (light+laser) and I think you guys talked me out of it.

- - - Updated - - -

He's in mass, he can't buy a glock new from a dealer (unless they knowingly thumb their nose at the attorney general's bogus regulations).

fixed.

 

[JC_Glock]

Glock 19/26 or H&K P2000 sk

 

[92G]

Let me know how you like that 43.... I'm wondering about the recoil of the 9MM on such a small gun. May go 42 because of this but I would rather have a 9mm.

The 43 has very little recoil suoer easy to shoot. The 42 is even easier....but both are very easy.

For me when i Compared to most other singke stack 9's, the 43 points more naturally and settles back onto target automatically....the only other singke stack I have found to be comparable is the walther PPS but the PPS is substantially heavier and the mag baseplates drive me nuts.

i kinda wish glock had rounded the trigger guard on the 42/43 but oh well....that can always be done.

 

[NickyB]

He's in mass, unless his son is law enforcement he can't buy a glock new from a dealer (unless they knowingly break the law). You can buy one private sale and get killed on the price.

Some people get them via other means, skirting the system in some way.

Edit: I've heard at a local LGS some police officers are basically dealers regarding the amount of glocks they purchase for themselves and then sell at a markup via private sale. Basically a side business...can't say I wouldn't partake if I was law enforcement.

And you sir, are wrong.

I bought a brand new G19 Gen 4 from a dealer a few weeks ago.

- - - Updated - - -

The 43 has very little recoil suoer easy to shoot. The 42 is even easier....but both are very easy.

For me when i Compared to most other singke stack 9's, the 43 points more naturally and settles back onto target automatically....the only other singke stack I have found to be comparable is the walther PPS but the PPS is substantially heavier and the mag baseplates drive me nuts.

i kinda wish glock had rounded the trigger guard on the 42/43 but oh well....that can always be done.

Have you shot a Kahr PM9? I shot my brothers last weekend and was surprised at the amount of kickback. I was wondering how the two compared?

 

[Varmint]

He's in mass, unless his son is law enforcement he can't buy a glock new from a dealer (unless they knowingly break the law). You can buy one private sale and get killed on the price.

Some people get them via other means, skirting the system in some way.

Edit: I've heard at a local LGS some police officers are basically dealers regarding the amount of glocks they purchase for themselves and then sell at a markup via private sale. Basically a side business...can't say I wouldn't partake if I was law enforcement.

Now that IS illegal.

 

[kingfisher]

This is about the skepticism some people have expressed about having laser sights on their self-defense handgun:

I guess it's all about what you train for, and what the situation is.

Absolutely. If someone doesn't train for various situations when they might need the gun they're carrying, then it's nothing more than a good luck charm giving them a false sense of security.

If you train yourself to look for the laser dot when a threat appears, and your laser happens to be on and working at that point, and the light level is low enough that you can see the dot but it's not so dark that you can't ID your target, then I agree that a laser would be a good thing.

Then I think we mostly agree.

To clarify, my comments here all pertain to Crimson Trace laser sights that activate automatically because a button is pushed when a firing grip is established, so the laser is always ready. Mine have never failed to activate after thousands of rounds of live and dry-fire practice, and as I said earlier I can see the dot in almost all light conditions. In bright sunlight at greater than typical self-defense distances would be the main exception, and I still have iron sights that can be used at any time, if needed.

An additional benefit to using a laser sight is that you can shoot from behind cover without sticking your head out into the danger zone to get your eye in line with the iron sights.

If I train myself to look for it first, then probability says that I'll be slower on average than if I'm not looking for it.

I'm actually quicker. I practice my draw so the pistol is indexed on the target part way through a normal draw to full extension, so I can pick up the laser dot and accurately put lead on target earlier if I need to, all while seeing the bad guy's hands (in case he drops his weapon and stops attacking, as in my previous scenarios).

If I decide to use my iron sights, using the laser sight first hasn't cost me any time because I haven't really altered anything. I'm just using different sights at different points along the draw stroke path.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Glock 19, and it will become the only pistol he needs.

 

[mac1911]

I carried a 1911 for several years, well because thats what was normal in my family. As much as I love my 1911 drawn from concealment its not always pointing in the right direction because of how the grip fits my hand...... I tried many many guns and finally based on grip comfort and ease of drawing from concealed I carry a S&W 4013tsw the caliper was not a consideration when I bought it. It draws nice and I put the rounds on target with out much effort.

 

[maswell]

I'll probably get some hate for this -- but if this is his first carry piece, I'd go with a DA/SA over striker fired. Until he's comfortable with drawing/holstering and all the complications that go with always carrying, I'd personally hold off on the striker fired guns -- I think it's too easy to have a AD/ND until you're used to regularly carrying and handling a gun daily.

Also, make sure you send him to an advanced pistol class! The one I took taught me some great lessons and instilled some great habits.

Again just my opinion, mostly because that's how I learned.