Storing firearms in a locked room

[atmay]

tl;dr

NOTHING will ever satisfy the storage requirements of MA state law. Just look at that poor bastard in Lowell (or was it Lawrence?) that had a well-built vault in his basement, but somebody took the time necessary (likely HOURS, according to the police) to cut it open and steal his shit, and the charged the owner (you know, the victim of the THEFT) with improper storage.

The only way to own guns in MA and maintain your sanity is to stop giving a **** about the fact that you stand a very high chance of going to prison for something stupid.

 

[x-frog-22]

How can you even work in there,,," Oh look at my half dozen guns "...Looks like you have to clean your weapons on your side of the bed.

 

[1903Collector]

tl;dr

NOTHING will ever satisfy the storage requirements of MA state law. Just look at that poor bastard in Lowell (or was it Lawrence?) that had a well-built vault in his basement, but somebody took the time necessary (likely HOURS, according to the police) to cut it open and steal his shit, and the charged the owner (you know, the victim of the THEFT) with improper storage.

The only way to own guns in MA and maintain your sanity is to stop giving a **** about the fact that you stand a very high chance of going to prison for something stupid.

I thought it was the powder/primers thing he got jammed up for?

 

[LoginName]

I thought it was the powder/primers thing he got jammed up for?

I don't recall the incident, but "unsafe storage", firearms, powder, primers... whatever.

They just had to find something... anything to hang the guy with.

 

[atmay]

I thought it was the powder/primers thing he got jammed up for?

Ultimately, yes...."Illegal Manufacture of Explosives", but (IIRC) they were actively seeking to jam him up for improper storage at first.

 

[richc]

If a locked room suffices, why not a locked house?

 

[Admin]

If a locked room suffices, why not a locked house?

Because MA that's why Serf!

 

[1903Collector]

I don't recall the incident, but "unsafe storage", firearms, powder, primers... whatever.

They just had to find something... anything to hang the guy with.

Agreed...MA making criminals one gun owner at a time.

 

[bigblue]

Or a locked car for that matter. The security on my car is better than most safes & lock boxes.

 

[allen-1]

Because MA that's why Serf!

Because F Y that's why.

 

[drgrant]

Just try to stay off of their radar. That's the best advice I can give.

+10,000

Chinese pilot Hung Lo has a proverb... "stay low and avoid imperiialist radar."

 

[drgrant]

tl;dr

NOTHING will ever satisfy the storage requirements of MA state law. Just look at that poor bastard in Lowell (or was it Lawrence?) that had a well-built vault in his basement, but somebody took the time necessary (likely HOURS, according to the police) to cut it open and steal his shit, and the charged the owner (you know, the victim of the THEFT) with improper storage.

The only way to own guns in MA and maintain your sanity is to stop giving a **** about the fact that you stand a very high chance of going to prison for something stupid.

That and just stay the **** out of BDCs if you can. Lowell is top 5 BDC.

 

[7.62x39]

If a locked room suffices, why not a locked house?

Or a locked car for that matter. The security on my car is better than most safes & lock boxes.

I don't see how anything that contains glass as part of the "container" can be considered as secure. Including glass doored gun cabinets for that matter.

 

[bigblue]

I don't see how anything that contains glass as part of the "container" can be considered as secure. Including glass doored gun cabinets for that matter.

Just as secure as the StackOn cabinet that I can open with a pocket knife or any gun case. If you can get into my trunk by breaking a window, more power to you, but I think you would be better off finding other ways in.

 

[jasons]

I don't see how anything that contains glass as part of the "container" can be considered as secure. Including glass doored gun cabinets for that matter.

There was some case law that came out of Reyes that implied that a glass cabinet was presumably OK as long as it was locked.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1621869.html

Statutory and regulatory references to acceptable containers include safes, weapon boxes, locked cabinets, gun cases, lock boxes, and locked trunks of vehicles. A leading secondary source, Law Enforcement Guide to Firearms Law (20th ed. 2012), published by the Municipal Police Institute, Inc., states that a securely locked container can include a soft gun case secured with a padlock, “as well as an expensive gun safe,” and that even “glass front furniture style gun cabinets are acceptable providing that they are capable of being locked.”

You can defeat a cheap lock with a bobby pin so that's bad (Parzick.) You can defeat a glass door with a fist but apparently that's just fine (Reyes.) Make sense?

If there's a lesson here it's that the deck is stacked against us.

 

[M1911]

You can defeat a cheap lock with a bobby pin so that's bad (Parzick.) You can defeat a glass door with a fist but apparently that's just fine (Reyes.) Make sense?

If there's a lesson here it's that the deck is stacked against us.

I'm convinced that judges make it up as the go along, torturing logic as they see fit to support their emotional decisions.

 

[warwickben]

There was some case law that came out of Reyes that implied that a glass cabinet was presumably OK as long as it was locked.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ma-supreme-judicial-court/1621869.html


You can defeat a cheap lock with a bobby pin so that's bad (Parzick.) You can defeat a glass door with a fist but apparently that's just fine (Reyes.) Make sense?

If there's a lesson here it's that the deck is stacked against us.

I was thinking of starting a thread bit figured I'll toss it in this one.

I realized a few days ago my safe is filled.
Most people have seen the mosin crate coffee table.
I was thinking of picking one up or at least making one from scratch.
Would it be legal if I made the case locked then ran a bar threw the trigger guards that also locked?
Figured the bar acts as holing them in and holding them up. I have s bunch of old school looks so if I could figure out a good way to hide locks they would look cool any way.
I wouldn't use glass , but some thing much stronger . Could I just use trigger locks?

I realized all my Russian guns would look pretty nice on display and would free up a lot of space in my safe .

 

[jasons]

I'm convinced that judges make it up as the go along, torturing logic as they see fit to support their emotional decisions.

There can be no doubt and it's shameful.

On a related note, this is why Comm2A is so important and worthy of our support.

 

[jasons]

I was thinking of starting a thread bit figured I'll toss it in this one.

I realized a few days ago my safe is filled.
Most people have seen the mosin crate coffee table.
I was thinking of picking one up or at least making one from scratch.
Would it be legal if I made the case locked then ran a bar threw the trigger guards that also locked?
Figured the bar acts as holing them in and holding them up. I have s bunch of old school looks so if I could figure out a good way to hide locks they would look cool any way.
I wouldn't use glass , but some thing much stronger . Could I just use trigger locks?

I realized all my Russian guns would look pretty nice on display and would free up a lot of space in my safe .

I'm no lawyer, but I would think so.

 

[warwickben]

I'm no lawyer, but I would think so.

My shitty ltc class teacher told me you can legally just have a trigger lock on a gun and your legal is that true? He did teach a lot of bad info .

Before any one ask , the guy passed away .

 

[jasons]

My shitty ltc class teacher told me you can legally just have a trigger lock on a gun and your legal is that true? He did teach a lot of bad info .

Before any one ask , the guy passed away .

For storage, yes. Or at least that's the current thinking by most people.

With that said, and given the gems in Parzick, I would stay away from the really shitty ones. At least get one with a real key and not the kind that use a special screw as "security."

And of course even then you're rolling the dice to some extent but that's a dead horse that we've already beaten in this thread.

 

[7.62x39]

... If you can get into my trunk by breaking a window, more power to you, but I think you would be better off finding other ways in.

Most vehicles today have an inside trunk release. All it takes is busting the glass, open the door and pop the trunk. 10 seconds tops.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You can defeat a cheap lock with a bobby pin so that's bad (Parzick.)

There are two possibilities:

1. Parzick was using the privacy lock on his bedroom to secure the guns, because he knew it was the law, but was too cheap to buy an inexpensive lock.

2. Parzick didn't lock up his guns, and came up with the privacy lock story ex post facto to claim compliance, as he knew it would be impossible to prove he did not actually do as he claimed.

Those of you have ever stayed in a Holiday Inn Express will be able to guess which is more probable.

The nice thing about decent trigger locks - they are moderately hard to remove, and the evidence you had your guns locked gets checked in with the gun as evidence and not conveniently lost.

 

[allen-1]

That and just stay the **** out of BDCs if you can. Lowell is top 5 BDC.

BDC has two meanings in my world:
-
Bottom dead cylinder - referring to the position of the piston in the cylinder
Brain Dead C - derogatory term for female

So you saying "just stay the ***** out of BDCs if you can." is supremely excellent advice". Thanks!!

 

[M1911]

My shitty ltc class teacher told me you can legally just have a trigger lock on a gun and your legal is that true? He did teach a lot of bad info . .

For storage, yes:

"Section 131L. (a) It shall be unlawful to store or keep any firearm, rifle or shotgun including, but not limited to, large capacity weapons, or machine gun in any place unless such weapon is secured in a locked container or equipped with a tamper-resistant mechanical lock or other safety device, properly engaged so as to render such weapon inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user. For purposes of this section, such weapon shall not be deemed stored or kept if carried by or under the control of the owner or other lawfully authorized user."

 

[B1000]

probably the dumbest of all questions, but after all this discussion I have to ask. Is it OK to store a locked and loaded handgun in a biometric safe?

 

[M1911]

probably the dumbest of all questions, but after all this discussion I have to ask. Is it OK to store a locked and loaded handgun in a biometric safe?

Yes. Read the text of the law that I pasted in above. It doesn't say a damn thing about loaded or unloaded.

 

[browncoat]

If a locked room suffices, why not a locked house?

My guess is that the SJC doesn't think that a locked room suffices, but would rather leave things as ambiguous as possible. From reading over case law, it appears to me that judges usually try to make their rulings as narrow as possible. In this case, that meant that rather than getting into the ambiguities of what constitutes secure storage, they simply picked out the easiest disqualifier. The benefit (from their point of view) is that this doesn't clarify the state of the law at all for gun owners and at the same time it makes it easier for a future ruling to be even worse.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I have a gun room, it is closet/attic under the eves of the house, about 8 feet wide and 14 feet long but the roof is at a 45 degree angle so you can only stand up straight as you walk along the stack-on cabinets but my desk fits under the roof. There are no windows but only a interior door but has a exterior number lock on the door.
To make it more secure I have a 24x7 monitored alarm with a alarm on the door as well as a motion sensor inside the room so if you come through the roof or the wall it will trip. Also I have radio and cell phone battery powered backup so if you cut the power or the wires it is still active for a few days. Inside there are the stack-on cabinets.
It is super secure, no, does it meet the law I would guess yes, even if a gun is left out inside it without a trigger lock I think it is a locked container.

 

[1903Collector]

I have a gun room, it is closet/attic under the eves of the house, about 8 feet wide and 14 feet long but the roof is at a 45 degree angle so you can only stand up straight as you walk along the stack-on cabinets but my desk fits under the roof. There are no windows but only a interior door but has a exterior number lock on the door.
To make it more secure I have a 24x7 monitored alarm with a alarm on the door as well as a motion sensor inside the room so if you come through the roof or the wall it will trip. Also I have radio and cell phone battery powered backup so if you cut the power or the wires it is still active for a few days. Inside there are the stack-on cabinets.
It is super secure, no, does it meet the law I would guess yes, even if a gun is left out inside it without a trigger lock I think it is a locked container.

That's a cozy set up Ben.