Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

Dench said:
Gandhi, Rosa Parks and MLK aren't normal people, though.
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Everyone was normal, once.

Gandhi was just an immigrant vegetarian lawyer until he went to SA and got radicalized there. He'd done just fine in India and Britain. King was merely a talented theology student until he came to Connecticut and got radicalized in a different way: he was amazed that he was allowed into restaurants there. When he returned to the south, he found he couldn't tolerate it.

Both of them would have probably preferred to stay normal and have a quiet life. Sometimes, circumstances make normal people act abnormally. Somewhere in NYS, there's someone just like that, getting more and more tired of having their rights trampled. It's a race, now, between that person's ability to tolerate further infringements, and the ability of the feds to make New York toe the line. We'll see who wins.
 
Parks was a member of the movement's thinkers. It's been a huge disservice to her legacy that historians repeatedly have spun a tale like she was a random person who got fed up that day. She was fed up for over 8 years over that crap, and became part of the movement; that day she was fed up because that random person hadn't shown up over and over, and when more crap showed up on her bus she put on her historically-big-person pants and decided, knowing all the weight that came with being that person, that it might as well be her. More like Gandhi than j.random.fed-up-person.

www.phillytrib.com

Rosa Parks was on the front lines of a movement that re-made America

Rosa Parks is one of the most famous women in the civil rights movement, but historians say her legacy is primarily as a symbol of the many nameless women who
www.phillytrib.com www.phillytrib.com
 
Rob Boudrie said:
SCOTUS decisions are binding except where prohibited by law.
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OK, now can you translate what this means for us in regards to this particular decision, and our firearms rights in states other than, but also including, New York?

What or who is bound, and to what, exactly?
 
Coyote33 said:
OK, now can you translate what this means for us in regards to this particular decision, and our firearms rights in states other than, but also including, New York?

What or who is bound, and to what, exactly?
Click to expand...
Rob Boudrie said:
It means SCOTUS decisions can be ignored or subject to bogus interpretation for a long period of time and there is almost nothing that can be done about it.
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By way of example:
In 1832 the Cherokee Indian tribe lived on land guaranteed them by treaty. They found gold on that land. Georgia tried to seize the land. The Cherokees sued. And eventually the Supreme Court, in Worcester v. Georgia, held in favor of the Cherokees. Georgia then refused to obey the Court. President Andrew Jackson reportedly said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it." And Jackson sent troops to evict the Cherokees, who traveled the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma, thousands dying along the way.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
It means SCOTUS decisions can be ignored or subject to bogus interpretation for a long period of time and there is almost nothing that can be done about it.
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Agree the only recourse a person has against the state ignoring SCOTUS is an appeal to the state until SCOTUS decides they are sufficiently wronged that they take up the issue.
Nowhere in the equation does your pain, costs or time come into play.
 
Who remembers the "Atlanta Declaration" from 1987?

L. Neil Smith passed away August 27, 2021. I'm sad that he won't be able to fulfill his promise.

Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon—rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

Someday to demonstrate that principle—before I'm lying on my deathbed in a hospital with green plastic tubes up my nose, before arthritis sets in and I have to do it on crutches—I intend to walk the length of Manhattan Island with a handgun openly on my hip, unmolested by any freelance or official parasite.

The question is, how do I get there from here?

The Atlanta Declaration — The Libertarian Enterprise

L. Neil Smith's The Libertarian Enterprise electronic magazine, Number 1,168, August 7, 2022 - The Atlanta Declaration, by L. Neil Smith
ncc-1776.org ncc-1776.org
 
In a related topic, story in WSJ states VA will start offering abortions to Vets who become pregnant thru rape of incest in a challenge to States who ban abortions after the SCOTUS decision. The VA NEVER performed ABORTIONS BEFORE this Fed policy change. The Feds are giving the finger to the Supreme Court and is demonstrating it's intention to challenge the court. The Leftists have demonstrated their intention of ignoring all legal decisions that go against their ideology. It's on!

"The Department of Veterans Affairs, for the first time in its history, will provide abortion services and counseling to veterans in cases of health dangers, rape and incest, including at federal facilities in states that have outlawed the procedure.

The department, whose healthcare reach spans the country and U.S. territories, announced the policy in an interim final rule Friday that it said allows for immediate implementation of the new policy.

“Pregnant veterans and VA beneficiaries deserve to have access to world-class reproductive care when they need it most,” VA secretary Denis McDonough said. “That’s what our nation owes them, and that’s what we at VA will deliver.”
The policy is the latest signal that the Biden administration is aiming to challenge states that have banned or heavily restricted abortion since the Supreme Court’s decision in June that overruled Roe v. Wade and ended the constitutional right to the procedure.

"The VA said that if clinicians face legal action in states where abortion has been outlawed, the Justice Department will step in. “If it ever becomes necessary, VA will work with DOJ to ensure the full strength of the federal government is available to defend eligible VA employees,” a VA spokesman said.

The move drew criticism from the GOP.

“This proposal is contrary to longstanding, settled law and a complete administrative overreach,” said Rep. Mike Bost (R., Ill.), the top Republican on the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs. “I oppose it and am already working to put a stop to it.”

www.wsj.com

Veterans Affairs to Provide Abortion Services for Health Dangers, Rape and Incest

The Department of Veterans Affairs for the first time in its history will provide abortions at federal facilities, even in states that have outlawed the procedure.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
 
Friday said:
Ghandi was assassinated, so, I'm not sure how well that worked out for him in the end....
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Rob Boudrie said:
So was MLK - 2/3 is not a good track record for survivability.
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In the end, "Ghandi" was not about Ghandi the man, it was about human rights and suffering. In that sense, he won. Same with MLK. It is a higher level of thinking/acting.
 
KBCraig said:
Who remembers the "Atlanta Declaration" from 1987?
Click to expand...
Don't remember it. This is the first time hearing about it.

Interesting.

I remember L. Neil Smith from his "Why Did It Have To Be Guns" story. Who is he, anyways?



SFC13557 said:
In a related topic, story in WSJ states VA will start offering abortions
Click to expand...
Virginia, or Veteran's Administration?
 
SFC13557 said:
In a related topic, story in WSJ states VA will start offering abortions to Vets who become pregnant thru rape of incest in a challenge to States who ban abortions after the SCOTUS decision. The VA NEVER performed ABORTIONS BEFORE this Fed policy change. The Feds are giving the finger to the Supreme Court and is demonstrating it's intention to challenge the court. The Leftists have demonstrated their intention of ignoring all legal decisions that go against their ideology. It's on!

"The Department of Veterans Affairs, for the first time in its history, will provide abortion services and counseling to veterans in cases of health dangers, rape and incest, including at federal facilities in states that have outlawed the procedure.

The department, whose healthcare reach spans the country and U.S. territories, announced the policy in an interim final rule Friday that it said allows for immediate implementation of the new policy.

“Pregnant veterans and VA beneficiaries deserve to have access to world-class reproductive care when they need it most,” VA secretary Denis McDonough said. “That’s what our nation owes them, and that’s what we at VA will deliver.”
The policy is the latest signal that the Biden administration is aiming to challenge states that have banned or heavily restricted abortion since the Supreme Court’s decision in June that overruled Roe v. Wade and ended the constitutional right to the procedure.

"The VA said that if clinicians face legal action in states where abortion has been outlawed, the Justice Department will step in. “If it ever becomes necessary, VA will work with DOJ to ensure the full strength of the federal government is available to defend eligible VA employees,” a VA spokesman said.

The move drew criticism from the GOP.

“This proposal is contrary to longstanding, settled law and a complete administrative overreach,” said Rep. Mike Bost (R., Ill.), the top Republican on the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs. “I oppose it and am already working to put a stop to it.”

www.wsj.com

Veterans Affairs to Provide Abortion Services for Health Dangers, Rape and Incest

The Department of Veterans Affairs for the first time in its history will provide abortions at federal facilities, even in states that have outlawed the procedure.
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
Click to expand...

Your interpretation of this is absolute nonsense.

SCOTUS didn’t say anything that contradicts this policy.

SCOTUS simply said the federally guaranteed right no longer exists. It said absolutely nothing to make abortion illegal. There is nothing in the Dobbs decision to prevent the federal government, or any state government, from providing abortions.
 
milktree said:
Your interpretation of this is absolute nonsense.

SCOTUS didn’t say anything that contradicts this policy.

SCOTUS simply said the federally guaranteed right no longer exists. It said absolutely nothing to make abortion illegal. There is nothing in the Dobbs decision to prevent the federal government, or any state government, from providing abortions.
Click to expand...
HUH? read the article. The VA is going to provide abortions in States that prohibit abortions in retaliation to the SCOTUS decisions that turned abortion decisions back to the States. The POINT is the Biden Admin is using the Federal Govt. to oppose SCOTUS decisions it disagrees with which will encourage States like NY to ignore Bruen and pass laws to dilute the decision. Nothing about abortion, it's the GOVT. under a Dem admin using it's "authority" to nullify SCOTUS decisions it disagrees with. You don't think Hockul and the NY Pols are closely working with the Biden Admin and DOJ in crafting their new gun laws?
 
Rob Boudrie said:
It means SCOTUS decisions can be ignored or subject to bogus interpretation for a long period of time and there is almost nothing that can be done about it.
Click to expand...

So, I stand behind my earlier comments:



Coyote33 said:
then nothing will happen once again
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Coyote33 said:
I just don't have much hope of seeing much movement with any of this; or at least for the next couple years.
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Coyote33 said:
1662097650776.png
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[offtopic][offtopic][offtopic]

"Can we stick to the Bruen decision and gun laws? Thanks."

If you're referring to me my post was on topic, the Biden Admin and the Feds have declared they will not obey Court decisions they disagree with or does not fit their Leftist ideology. By mandating the VA to perform abortions in States that prohibit the procedure they are signaling their intent. The 3 recent SCOTUS decisions on abortion, gunz and Climate Change(The EPA slap down on W.VA) are Calls to Arms to them and they will resist, disobey and craft and pass legislation to defy the Supreme Court. NY's defiance of Bruen is an example and a precursor of things to come. When NY's discriminatory new firearm regs/laws are challenged and when the law is slapped down a Fed Appellate Court or SCOTUS NY will just give the court the finger and dare the Federal Govt. to try and enforce the decision. As long as a D is in the WH the Blue States have no incentive to obey Bruen.
 
Mesatchornug said:
By way of example:
In 1832 the Cherokee Indian tribe lived on land guaranteed them by treaty. They found gold on that land. Georgia tried to seize the land. The Cherokees sued. And eventually the Supreme Court, in Worcester v. Georgia, held in favor of the Cherokees. Georgia then refused to obey the Court. President Andrew Jackson reportedly said, "John Marshall has made his decision; now let him enforce it." And Jackson sent troops to evict the Cherokees, who traveled the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma, thousands dying along the way.
Click to expand...

this is going to happen again, i promise
 
SFC13557 said:
Well Rosa Parks was but Gandhi and MLK were leaders of a movement and had much support from their followers which meant they could afford to spend days/weeks in jail and come out a hero. Try that in Ma/NY and you'd be an anti-govt. MAGA semi-Fascist. You'd be front page news in the Globe/NY Times and lose your job, etc.
Click to expand...

In there day, those folks were pretty hated too.
 
KBCraig said:
Who remembers the "Atlanta Declaration" from 1987?

L. Neil Smith passed away August 27, 2021. I'm sad that he won't be able to fulfill his promise.

Every man, woman, and responsible child has an unalienable individual, civil, Constitutional, and human right to obtain, own, and carry, openly or concealed, any weapon—rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything—any time, any place, without asking anyone's permission.

Someday to demonstrate that principle—before I'm lying on my deathbed in a hospital with green plastic tubes up my nose, before arthritis sets in and I have to do it on crutches—I intend to walk the length of Manhattan Island with a handgun openly on my hip, unmolested by any freelance or official parasite.

The question is, how do I get there from here?

The Atlanta Declaration — The Libertarian Enterprise

L. Neil Smith's The Libertarian Enterprise electronic magazine, Number 1,168, August 7, 2022 - The Atlanta Declaration, by L. Neil Smith
ncc-1776.org ncc-1776.org
Click to expand...

I remember the Port Huron Declaration. Well, the original, not the compromised second draft.

Coyote33 said:
In the end, "Ghandi" was not about Ghandi the man, it was about human rights and suffering. In that sense, he won. Same with MLK. It is a higher level of thinking/acting.
Click to expand...

That's 2022 for you. We don't think about the greater good, we think about the person first. Maybe we always did. "I donwannadie!" But it seems the "brave" were more common historically than they are now. Well, now that I think of it, maybe 1938-1980 or so. Those 1920's folks were pretty selfish and self-absorbed in a 2022 sort of way. But I digress.
 
Dennis in MA said:
I remember the Port Huron Declaration. Well, the original, not the compromised second draft.



That's 2022 for you. We don't think about the greater good, we think about the person first. Maybe we always did. "I donwannadie!" But it seems the "brave" were more common historically than they are now. Well, now that I think of it, maybe 1938-1980 or so. Those 1920's folks were pretty selfish and self-absorbed in a 2022 sort of way. But I digress.
Click to expand...
I feel like there's a trite (becoming cliche) comment about cycles in there somewhere... ;)
 

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