Supreme Court - NYSRPA v. Bruen - Megathread

You want historical analysis that the 2ndA was understood to be an individual right vs collective/militia right? How about Founding-era translations of the 2ndA into German? Take that, gun control advocates! [reference from Duke Firearms Law]

academic.oup.com

A Well-Outfitted Militia: German–American Translations of the Second Amendment and Original Public Meaning

Abstract. This article seeks to uncover the original public meaning of the Second Amendment by scrutinizing unusual and previously unexamined sources: Germ
academic.oup.com academic.oup.com

A Well-Outfitted Militia: German–American Translations of the Second Amendment and Original Public Meaning​

Brandon Kinney
American Journal of Legal History, Volume 62, Issue 3, September 2022, Pages 237–261, Well-Outfitted Militia: German–American Translations of the Second Amendment and Original Public Meaning
Published:

26 September 2022

Abstract​

This article seeks to uncover the original public meaning of the Second Amendment by scrutinizing unusual and previously unexamined sources: German–American translations of the Bill of Rights during the Founding Era. Translations offer a unique perspective of political culture, because they served as thoughtful analysis and contextual commentary on the source text. Using six German–American translations in the Founding Era, this article argues that the public understanding of the Second Amendment during the Founding Era was one that recognized the individual right to own firearms for individual use unconnected to militia service as well as a constitutional endorsement of an armed population as the best bulwark to preserve the liberty of the national people. Though the exact text of the translations differ across publishers and states, they retain thematic and syntactic similarities that suggest a public consensus over the meaning of the text. The notion that the Second Amendment protects an individual right rather than a collective one is borne out by additional translations well into the mid-nineteenth century. Printers adjusted their translations of the amendment after the militia as a military institution had fallen into disuse but preserved or strengthened the clause protecting the individual right to arms rather than letting it ‘fall silent’.
 
SFC13557 said:
I can't believe public housing bans on Firearms have survived legal challenges so far. What authority/laws do these anti's cite for their rules?
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If no one sues, the law stays in existence. I’m not sure if any public housing gun bans have made it past even district court but it’s a situation where few in those situations want guns enough to sue.

These laws were losing in court prior to NYSRPA vs bruen
 
Hoover said:
The briefs are due in November, an opinion will not come until at least the end of December.

Benetiz already struck the CA AWB down last year under a lesser standard. His opinion will probably be quite similar to that opinion before the 9th vacated and remanded it. The real watch will be what the 9th circuit does. The 9th is a 16-13 democrat nominated judges to GOP court. Who the random 3 judge panel is will be very important and if it goes en banc, that panel will be the chief (a liberal Obama judge) and 10 randomly selected judges.

We’ll likely see a ruling from the 4th circuit on Marylands mag limits and AWB by early summer 2023. That case is further along than CA because it wasn’t remanded back to the district court case is bianchi vs Frosh
Click to expand...

I'm not so sure. I'm betting Benitez has it 95% written already. I'm sure he'll fit the phrase, "Didn't I tell you MF's this was gonna happen a year ago?" in there somewhere. LOL. But I could see him FU'ing the whole thing a day or two after the deadline. Apparently, everyone has filed everything.



SFC13557 said:
I can't believe public housing bans on Firearms have survived legal challenges so far. What authority/laws do these anti's cite for their rules?
Click to expand...

I would guess serfdom.
 
Dennis in MA said:
I'm not so sure. I'm betting Benitez has it 95% written already. I'm sure he'll fit the phrase, "Didn't I tell you MF's this was gonna happen a year ago?" in there somewhere. LOL. But I could see him FU'ing the whole thing a day or two after the deadline. Apparently, everyone has filed everything.





I would guess serfdom.
Click to expand...

He definitely doesn’t have it written since he doesn’t even have the briefs yet but much of those briefs will be similar to the first case. His opinion will probably be 80% of what the first decision was and the other 20% will talk about the NYSRPA vs bruen standard now.

The state of CA is asking for an extension now, they said they need more time for researchers to do historical research etc. that will get denied and the schedule will be the same. In the first case benetiz issued his judgement 9 months after the briefs. Where it’s a redo, I’d expect a month or two until judgement this time.
 
reason.com

The Paranoid Style in Gun Control Politics

If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website
reason.com reason.com

Attempts to delegitimization Bruen by Bloomberg’s The Trace on one level and the Democrats attempt to claim the illegitimacy of the Supreme Court on another level seem to be spiraling forward. Talk about poor losers…

"If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website founded and funded by Michael Bloomberg. In August, The Trace presented a conspiracy about the amicus briefs filed in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The article was reprinted by Politico. Will Van Sant, The NRA's Shadowy Supreme Court Lobbying Campaign, Politico, Aug. 5, 2022.

The 12-brief conspiracy

The Politico reprint of the Trace article opens with snazzy graphics. Forty-nine amicus brief were submitted in the Bruen case: "12 of those briefs were filed by people or institutions who had received millions of dollars from the NRA, a Trace and Politico Magazine investigation found. Only 1 brief disclosed the financial connection." According to Van Sant, "neither the justices nor the public were told that 11 of these ostensibly independent voices owed their livelihoods in part to the NRA."
 
"GOA is subpoenaing the NY governor in their lawsuit over their gun control law. She had a big mouth after NYSRPa vs bruen and said a lot which will bite her in court."

NICE! Her lead over Zeldin has shrunk so hopefully she'll get two surprises in November.
 
SFC13557 said:
"GOA is subpoenaing the NY governor in their lawsuit over their gun control law. She had a big mouth after NYSRPa vs bruen and said a lot which will bite her in court."

NICE! Her lead over Zeldin has shrunk so hopefully she'll get two surprises in November.
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Zeldin is a good candidate. NY is such a democrat state because of NYC, it’s a tough state for any GOP but I’d love to see him pull it off. That would be a gut punch to democrats
 
MaverickNH said:
reason.com

The Paranoid Style in Gun Control Politics

If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website
reason.com reason.com

Attempts to delegitimization Bruen by Bloomberg’s The Trace on one level and the Democrats attempt to claim the illegitimacy of the Supreme Court on another level seem to be spiraling forward. Talk about poor losers…

"If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website founded and funded by Michael Bloomberg. In August, The Trace presented a conspiracy about the amicus briefs filed in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The article was reprinted by Politico. Will Van Sant, The NRA's Shadowy Supreme Court Lobbying Campaign, Politico, Aug. 5, 2022.

The 12-brief conspiracy

The Politico reprint of the Trace article opens with snazzy graphics. Forty-nine amicus brief were submitted in the Bruen case: "12 of those briefs were filed by people or institutions who had received millions of dollars from the NRA, a Trace and Politico Magazine investigation found. Only 1 brief disclosed the financial connection." According to Van Sant, "neither the justices nor the public were told that 11 of these ostensibly independent voices owed their livelihoods in part to the NRA."
Click to expand...
It seems to me that without Bloomberg bankrolling organizations like The Trace, they wouldn’t exist.
It’s not surprising that people who are paid to push gun control convince themselves that 2nd Ammendment Supporters can’t be idealists and must be paid to support their position, just like the writers at The Trace are. Progressives always accuse others of doing what they themselves are doing.
 
MaverickNH said:
reason.com

The Paranoid Style in Gun Control Politics

If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website
reason.com reason.com

Attempts to delegitimization Bruen by Bloomberg’s The Trace on one level and the Democrats attempt to claim the illegitimacy of the Supreme Court on another level seem to be spiraling forward. Talk about poor losers…

"If you're looking for a website like QAnon, but catering to gun control advocates, you will enjoy some articles from The Trace, a gun control website founded and funded by Michael Bloomberg. In August, The Trace presented a conspiracy about the amicus briefs filed in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen. The article was reprinted by Politico. Will Van Sant, The NRA's Shadowy Supreme Court Lobbying Campaign, Politico, Aug. 5, 2022.

The 12-brief conspiracy

The Politico reprint of the Trace article opens with snazzy graphics. Forty-nine amicus brief were submitted in the Bruen case: "12 of those briefs were filed by people or institutions who had received millions of dollars from the NRA, a Trace and Politico Magazine investigation found. Only 1 brief disclosed the financial connection." According to Van Sant, "neither the justices nor the public were told that 11 of these ostensibly independent voices owed their livelihoods in part to the NRA."
Click to expand...

Blue anon is real. I never thought that left wingers could be conspiracy theorists but oftentimes they are first fish to bite when it comes to wild eyed conspiracy theories.
 
Cap'n Mike said:
It seems to me that without Bloomberg bankrolling organizations like The Trace, they wouldn’t exist.
It’s not surprising that people who are paid to push gun control convince themselves that 2nd Ammendment Supporters can’t be idealists and must be paid to support their position, just like the writers at The Trace are. Progressives always accuse others of doing what they themselves are doing.
Click to expand...
Democrats want to see more money spent supporting their beliefs and causes - just not more of their own money. Bloomberg can’t buy a Presidency, but he can buy Democratic Presidents’ agendas - seats at a White House gun policy advisory board.

Obama was right - Conservatives cling to their guns and bibles. Liberals know if one goes, the other is close behind. Conservatives know it too. This last SCOTUS term terrified them - they cannot rewrite the US Constitution/Bill of Rights to disappear enumerated rights and find new rights they favor. “Overturning Precedent!” they cry, with 100yr+ (Bruen) and 50yr+ (Roe) of past SCOUTS decisions called into question! …As though mistakes made cannot be corrected. But then they want to “correct” what they call a long-expired need for the Electoral Collage in favor of popular vote Presidential elections. They want it both ways…or just the way they win power over all.

12F301B8-1402-4861-823D-79D24E8D5CB1.jpeg
 
VetteGirlMA said:
Blue anon is real. I never thought that left wingers could be conspiracy theorists but oftentimes they are first fish to bite when it comes to wild eyed conspiracy theories.
Click to expand...
…especially when racist, homophobic xenophobes with less education and lower economic output seem to be winning. We’re to stupid to win - there must be a Capitalist Cabal running things from Richie Rich manor.

30DC3421-2F1E-41FA-BC44-5763702C6CF5.jpeg
 
Cap'n Mike said:
It seems to me that without Bloomberg bankrolling organizations like The Trace, they wouldn’t exist.
It’s not surprising that people who are paid to push gun control convince themselves that 2nd Ammendment Supporters can’t be idealists and must be paid to support their position, just like the writers at The Trace are. Progressives always accuse others of doing what they themselves are doing.
Click to expand...

FPCs media guy is @2aupdates on Twitter. He’s been posting a good number of the everytown, giffords, etc tv ads for various senate races around the country. A LOT of them are on abortion. They think gun control is such a winning issue, they’re spending probably $30 million plus on a lot of abortion ads.

Some of the biggest wackos, po Murray from newtown action is one of the biggest loons, are already saying there’s voter suppression, GOP can’t win unless the cheat, etc. they feel the loss coming , I think they’ll go even more nuts with the size of the loss
 
I note that there is no “Other” listed for “what gives meaning to life”, but aside from that, one could interpret that of those surveyed, at best as much as 78% can’t identify what gives meaning to life...

MaverickNH said:
Democrats want to see more money spent supporting their beliefs and causes - just not more of their own money. Bloomberg can’t buy a Presidency, but he can buy Democratic Presidents’ agendas - seats at a White House gun policy advisory board.

Obama was right - Conservatives cling to their guns and bibles. Liberals know if one goes, the other is close behind. Conservatives know it too. This last SCOTUS term terrified them - they cannot rewrite the US Constitution/Bill of Rights to disappear enumerated rights and find new rights they favor. “Overturning Precedent!” they cry, with 100yr+ (Bruen) and 50yr+ (Roe) of past SCOUTS decisions called into question! …As though mistakes made cannot be corrected. But then they want to “correct” what they call a long-expired need for the Electoral Collage in favor of popular vote Presidential elections. They want it both ways…or just the way they win power over all.

View attachment 675286
Click to expand...
 
chuckules said:
I note that there is no “Other” listed for “what gives meaning to life”, but aside from that, one could interpret that of those surveyed, at best as much as 78% can’t identify what gives meaning to life...
Click to expand...
Since this is an open ended question that the surveyors grouped after the fact, there are other answers not listed. Further, unless you mean to imply that the only place a person can find meaning is "Faith, spirituality and religion," I'm not sure how you'd arrive at your 78% number.
 
chuckules said:
I note that there is no “Other” listed for “what gives meaning to life”, but aside from that, one could interpret that of those surveyed, at best as much as 78% can’t identify what gives meaning to life...
Click to expand...
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women.
 
chuckules said:
Just that he highest number I saw in any of the categories was 22%. 100% - 22% = 78%
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Sure, because people were free to give any answer they could imagine. If we assume that each respondent is allowed one primary answer, and add all the values in the infographic, we come out to 60% of "R" and 58% of "D" answers as actually displayed. This makes it feel (to me) more like "figures lie and liars figure" than anything else.
chuckules said:
I ain't that guy!
Click to expand...
understood
 
firearmslaw.duke.edu

As States Weigh New Sensitive Places Laws, How Might Current State Practice Impact Litigation after Bruen? | Duke Center for Firearms Law

firearmslaw.duke.edu firearmslaw.duke.edu

“One way to look at these restrictions is that a more permissive licensing scheme necessarily means more guns being carried in public. And, when more guns are carried in public, the state recognizes a need to step in to restrict public carry in a larger number of potentially-sensitive locations.”

A “more permissive licensing scheme” that modifies a virtual ban on concealed carry into an extremely onerous process that few have managed to navigate in 4 months is hardly “more permissive”. The Catch 22 in NY is that you can finally carry a concealed firearm beyond the bounds defined by Justice Thomas’ “from the bedroom to the kitchen” quip, but virtually nowhere where you might need it for self defense outside the home. That’s like saying you do have freedom of speech - just not where others might hear you.
 
MaverickNH said:
firearmslaw.duke.edu

As States Weigh New Sensitive Places Laws, How Might Current State Practice Impact Litigation after Bruen? | Duke Center for Firearms Law

firearmslaw.duke.edu firearmslaw.duke.edu

“One way to look at these restrictions is that a more permissive licensing scheme necessarily means more guns being carried in public. And, when more guns are carried in public, the state recognizes a need to step in to restrict public carry in a larger number of potentially-sensitive locations.”

A “more permissive licensing scheme” that modifies a virtual ban on concealed carry into an extremely onerous process that few have managed to navigate in 4 months is hardly “more permissive”. The Catch 22 in NY is that you can finally carry a concealed firearm beyond the bounds defined by Justice Thomas’ “from the bedroom to the kitchen” quip, but virtually nowhere where you might need it for self defense outside the home. That’s like saying you do have freedom of speech - just not where others might hear you.
Click to expand...
The silver lining is that important people have been brought down to our level (except, unfortunately, LE)
 
Hoover said:
NY federal judge blocks NY response bill provision barring conceal carry in places of worship


View: https://twitter.com/2Aupdates/status/1583213803319091201?s=20&t=Ht9SF5Rqiv7M6qkhGxPQkQ
Click to expand...

More on that:

reason.com

N.Y. Law Banning Gun Carrying in Churches (Including by People Authorized by the Church) Struck Down

From Hardaway v. Nigrelli, decided yesterday by Judge John L. Sinatra, Jr. (N.D.N.Y.): Eight days after the Supreme Court struck...
reason.com reason.com

In short, NY’s spaghetti isn’t sticking to the wall.

”The State argues that the place of worship exclusion complies with Bruen…New York's restriction finds no analog in any recognized "sensitive place...the State cites to a handful of enactments in an attempt to meet its "burden" to demonstrate a tradition of accepted prohibitions of firearms in places of worship or religious observation. The notion of a "tradition" is the opposite of one-offs, outliers, or novel enactments. Rather, "tradition" requires "continuity."

3B8A2B93-A4D4-475A-A53F-F9E69F33AF52.jpeg
 
MaverickNH said:
More on that:

reason.com

N.Y. Law Banning Gun Carrying in Churches (Including by People Authorized by the Church) Struck Down

From Hardaway v. Nigrelli, decided yesterday by Judge John L. Sinatra, Jr. (N.D.N.Y.): Eight days after the Supreme Court struck...
reason.com reason.com

In short, NY’s spaghetti isn’t sticking to the wall.

”The State argues that the place of worship exclusion complies with Bruen…New York's restriction finds no analog in any recognized "sensitive place...the State cites to a handful of enactments in an attempt to meet its "burden" to demonstrate a tradition of accepted prohibitions of firearms in places of worship or religious observation. The notion of a "tradition" is the opposite of one-offs, outliers, or novel enactments. Rather, "tradition" requires "continuity."

View attachment 676266
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And Houchul etc will be deposed under oath. The statements they made about going around SCOTUS won’t play well. Their intent was clear, they said it out loud.
 
Hoover said:
Zeldin is a good candidate. NY is such a democrat state because of NYC, it’s a tough state for any GOP but I’d love to see him pull it off. That would be a gut punch to democrats
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How many people are in and around the city? I wonder what that number is. Then, I wonder how many people in the ENTIRE REST OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK. I would hope there are more in the latter category. Then, figure out how bad they want freedom, and how much money collectively each group has.
 
Many years ago Mayor Koch threatened to immediately revoke all NYC pistol permits that were not "Full Carry" if the NY legislature removed the validity of the restrictions on the premises/target licenses.

Their current governor is attempting to deliver on that promise, but without the ability to leave the special, elite and connected unscathed. It will be hard for her administration to offer any credible testimony the law passed on the "express no public hearing urgent path" (same as the NY SAFE act was) is anything but an attempt to avoid compliance with Bruen. If she offered the lie these were long overdue corrections unrelated to Bruen, the court would have something handy to hang an adverse (for us) decision on, but she was so arrogant in her belief of the righteousness of her position that she forgot basic strategy.
 
Last edited:
Rob Boudrie said:
Many years ago Mayor Kotch threatened to immediately revoke all NYC pistol permits that were not "Full Carry" if the NY legislature removed the validity of the restrictions on the premises/target licenses.

Their current governor is attempting to deliver on that promise, but without the ability to leave the special, elite and connected unscathed. It will be hard for her administration to offer any credible testimony the law passed on the "express no public hearing urgent path" (same as the NY SAFE act was) is anything but an attempt to avoid compliance with Bruen. If she offered lie these were long overdue corrections unrelated to Bruen, the court would have something handy to hang an adverse (for us) decision on, but she was so arrogant in her belief of the righteousness of her position that she forgot basic strategy.
Click to expand...
He would have had a stroke if he knew that he was standing next to an armed Jew when he visited a local synagogue in MA many years ago. [laugh] One of our detectives and myself were the only armed folks in that building.
 

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