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Surviving job loss

FrugalFannie

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So it's happened again. My husband has lost his job. He is an engineer by education and has been climbing the ladder into the management realm. Unfortunately, he is "middle management" which is the first to get whacked when companies downsize.

Probably 10 or 11 years ago he was working for Raytheon when they went through massive layoffs and after 5 years with them, he was gone in that wave. This was back when "the economy was booming." He spent a year looking for a job before he finally took a $10/hr gig working for a cell phone company in one of their retail stores so we could continue to have health insurance (more on that later). That lasted 6 months before he got back into an engineering position.

Then he spent 5 years with Lockheed Martin and they had huge layoffs and IIRC he was unemployed for 6 months. Not as bad as layoff number 1 for sure but financially very damaging though not as devastating as the first one.

Then he got a temporary gig of about a year that ended when the contract ended. I think he was out for about 8 weeks. This one was scary to say the least. Given what we had been through with the previous 2 layoffs and we had only 1 year since the previous period of unemployment, well….

Then he got a job with a company that was being bought by another company. Within a month of him being hired the company got acquired. Then it got acquired yet again within a year. During the 2 1/2 years he was there we saw them 'consolidating departments' and laying off people, mostly administrative positions that were duplicated when the 3 companies merged, until last spring when they had a 20% layoff of engineers and managers. Yep. He got the ax.

He was out of work from just before memorial day until just before labor day last year when he got a job that for the first time in a long was actually paying more than the previous position. Yep. The last couple of jobs he took, he took a pay cut compared to his previous employment. Definitely not a good thing since as we know, prices on everything kept RISING.

So last fall he starts with a new company and now he has lost that job. Not going to get into details but when your boss tells you that you are lying and completely ignores all facts, it's possibly not a good place to be /sarcasm/ and from our experience, doesn't end well.

And thus here we are with a major loss of income. Again.

In some ways we are in a better position than we were in previous layoffs. In others, we are definitely worse off.

Over the next few weeks (hopefully it won't last longer than that) I will attempt to share with all of you the steps we took in case this happened again and how we are surviving it. After having been through this so many times we joke that we are very 'experienced job loss survivors.' I may even break down and share a few of my fears with you guys. Nahhhh. You would just likely call me ball-less. And everyone who knows me now I 'earned' my brass balls.

And maybe, just maybe, this will help me keep my sanity and help others to prepare for a job loss and survive it if/when it happens to them.
 
LOL. I forgot this would happen. I appreciate the suggestions of where to look for jobs for him but engineering is a large field and he is actually now a project manager. He is really good at finding and locating jobs. Perhaps some time this week I will post something about what type of work he is actually looking for so that if you guys see something or know of something at your work, you can let us know.

I appreciate it guys. I really do.
 
sorry to hear about his job....hopefully you will have a quick turnaround on the job front. best of luck to him
 
You have my simplicity. I know what you're going through. I'm finally starting a new job on the 20th after being laid off back in July. Losing a job is more than hard on the finances, if it wasn't for a couple small contracts I'd already be out of my house.

What I want to say to everyone is PLAN for a job loss. I didn't plan for extended unemployment. Before this I was never really unemployed. The closest I got was a little while working for myself but that was before I started moving from a purely technical role to a management role (sound familiar) and the demand was huge at the time. I failed to set aside enough money, don't make the same mistake I did.

PennyPincher, good luck to you and your husband. It sounds like you have a better handle on the situation that I did, still if there was any advice or help I could give, I would. I wouldn't wish this kind on uncertainty on anyone.
 
Tighe and bond is looking right now. Check out their website. If he sees something let me know. I have contacts there-good ones
 
Suggestion:
Put a new spin on the skill set - all the employers listed are in the same category - branch out, change, be different. The skills and knowledge can be used in other industries, the products are different but the end goal should be the same.

Don't be afraid to become a "Consultant" either. 3 part time customers = full time employment...
 
It sounds as though you are better prepared for this than most people. I've been fired twice, the first was more devastating than the second, but both had a serious impact on both my sense of self-worth and my finances.

I've got some friends up in Canterbury that I can touch base with... If you want that, PM with some detail or your husband's resume.
 
Very sorry to hear this. I haven't been laid off but have watched dozens of coworkers getting laid off over the years, that somehow I managed to dodge.

If he works in Mass he's eligible for Mass unemployment right? It's very generous, helps engineers not having to take $10/hr jobs to put food on the table. I know it gets abused by a lot of people, but it certainly helps some good people.

If he's only worked in NH, definitely consider Mass, lots of engineering jobs down here.
 
Dumb question but has he looked at getting back into Raytheon? That place is really tough to get into, might help that he's an ex employee.
 
WOW. I hope he finds something soon! You really have been on an unemployment roller coaster! We have plans in place because we're both self employed but I always like to hear what others have done in case I missed something or could do something better. Share the "fears" in case I forgot to be concerned about something too. Call them "concerns" if it feels like a stronger word for you. ;)
 
So sorry to hear the news, glad you have a plan in place. Hubby is an engineer and I have been pushing him to go to management even though he is happy. I think I will apologize tonight and tell him to stick to his path, hadn't thought of the management getting laid off in mergers. He's with synopsis so at least we aren't in the non-paying start-ups anymore.
 
Sorry again to hear about this. As you may know/ remember I have been through some of the same rollercoaster ride with jobs. I always thought that being an engineer was/would be a nice stable position, especially in medical devices.

Wish you & your family the best.
 
I'm really sorry to hear about this...I guess the upside is you're in the right frame of mind to deal. Kudos--you should be proud that you prepare!

THIS is exactly the kind of stuff we NEED to prepare for. SHTF with militant zombies is fun to hypothesize but job loss, a bad medical diagnosis, a home fire...those are the SHTF situation which can and do happen every day.
 
Job Loss happens so it needs to be prepared for. Unemployment pays shit. There are other reasons people may lose their income - illness, etc.

Before you lose a job:

Have a budget. No really, have a budget and follow it. Even if you think you have enough money, you don't. You need to eliminate as many expenses as possible, especially recurring expenses. Having a budget will help you see where most of your money goes. Some people will assume that most of their money goes to housing, and thats probably true for the vast majority of people, but not everyone.

How much money do you spend on auto maintenance every year? Break that down into a monthly amount (do that for every expense).
What about those 1x per year expenses? Auto renewal, registration, inspection, insurances (some pay monthly but some are annual). The list goes on but I guess you get the idea.

Once you know where you spend your money - figure out where you can cut. We went from a $2100+/mo mortgage payment to significantly less for rent. On top of the savings, we don't have maintenance costs on the house, lawn care, snow removal, etc. We decided to rent 1 1/2 yrs ago when we moved because we didn't really know where we wanted to buy. You likely cannot change your housing expenses too quickly after a job loss. We are about 4 or 5 months into a 1 year lease, so cutting our rent right now isn't going to happen.

Depending on what you read you will see advice to make your housing cost no more than 25% of your monthly income. Thats a pretty good rule. I certainly wouldn't suggest even going that high if you can find something you can deal with for less.

SAVE MONEY. When all is said and done, cash is king. If you save 10% of every paycheck, it will take you 10 pay periods to have saved 1 paycheck. Try to save more than that. in cash. not in retirement funds. retirement funds won't help you pay the mortgage and buy groceries without some heavy penalties.

Pay off all your consumer debt and revolving debt. We currently have no credit card debt and no credit cards. We have no car payments. This will help you to save more money.

Buy the staples of your everyday life before you lose your job. Stock your freezer well. We have the remainder of half a hog and the chickens we bought in our freezer. We won't have to buy meat for a while except beef (and we have a little of that). We would have had more (half a cow and another half a hog) if the farm I was ordering from last year didn't royally screw up my orders. (Guess I will find a new farm next year). We don't have to buy shampoo, deodorant, toilet paper, etc for at least a year. Same for dish detergent and laundry detergent. We actually make some of these products. It's much cheaper and very easy.

Make sure you don't do without too much before an income loss. If you let all your clothes get to threads and your shoes are falling apart and then you lose your job will you really want to be replacing them after a job loss?

Of course, store what you eat and eat what you store, right? So we will be eating our stored food. In addition to our freezers we have home canned soups, chills, meats, etc. We will have to keep buying veggies and milk and stuff like that. We also have plenty of butter, oils, protein powder etc.

Since my husband isn't going to work every day, our gas bill for vehicles should be about 1/4 to 1/2 less than it was. I'm making sure he still goes to the gym regularly even if it's just for my own sanity.

Oh yeah, sanity. I love my husband but I am used to having the house to myself before heading to work. Having him around all the time, we get on each other's nerves. It's not like a vacation. There's the stress of not working and not knowing when the next job will come. I find I spend more time at work when he is unemployed, even after closing. I just need 'my space.'

When unemployment hits - dump as many expenses as you can. The proverbial 'tightening of the belt.'
We had health insurance (don't get me started) privately. It cost over $900 per month for just 2 of us. Husband had his through work. Health insurance is gone. Your situation may require you keep it. Or at least you feel you need to keep it. If you get insurance through an employer, find out what it would cost to pay for all of it. How will that affect your 'savings' if you have to pay the full cost?

We could dump our auto insurance but we have a teen driver now and you may remember he totaled a car last summer. We could refuse to let him drive and cancel the insurance and make him find friends to give him rides everywhere but lots of his friends have ended up crashing vehicles recently. But it is winter and I go 36 miles each way to work. We can reduce our insurance coverage and save about $50/month by increasing our deductibles. But it is winter. Did I mention that? So for us, for now, we will opt to keep the auto insurance which also covers medical expenses in car accidents.

What things can you do for yourself that you usually have others do and you pay them? Can you do them and save some money? We don't do our own car maintenance. We also pay to have our taxes done but I think I can do that. We have an accountant do the business returns and usually our personal returns. I may end up doing my personal returns. Fed and MA NR.

Kids - thats a tough one. No, I'm not talking about getting rid of them. Depending on your children and their ages, you may enlist their 'help.' My son usually gets some money every week for 'lunch' and he ends up eating out of the junk machines at school. He's old enough to understand the value of a dollar so we told him we will buy him the same crap he buys from the junk machine, but at the grocery store. It saves us some money. He also knows that he can't go asking for extra money right now. Not that he usually does that. He has a small allowance. And sometimes that has gone away when dad lost his job in the past. He understands. Does it suck for him? Yep. But it sucks for all of us. He also understands when we don't get our weekly pizza out or the splurge on chinese food once in a while.

So thats what I have for now.

One other thing that just popped into my head. You hear all the time how money problems is the leading cause of divorce or at least a big contributing factor right? That has never made sense to me. This is our 5th run with job loss and major loss of income. It does cause stress but I wouldn't leave him because he lost his job. I can't imagine not being together through our roughest times.
 
Ugh. I've been laid off once. It sucked, big time. I lined up a new job within a month, before my last day at that company. But I still found it to be hugely stressful.

You have my sympathy. On the bright side, the job market seems to be on its way back in most segments except, perhaps, the defense industry.

Best wishes.
 
Dont freak out. Ok. Freak out for like 20 minutes but then figure out a plan of action.

My husband spends at least 8 hours per day looking for jobs, e-mailing recruiters, answering phone calls, etc.

Last lay off he took a class and exam to get a certification. SO, it cost some money but hopefully will pay off in the long run.
 
Yes, it's not fun to go through this, I'm sure.

IYDM, I'll tell you my honest opinion:

Your husband made a mistake when switching from the producing sector (engineer) to the non-producing sector (project manager), it's no wonder why he is a part of the group that's being laid off first, it's just about how expandable his position is, and how easy it is to refill it once needs arise.

Before any readers get butthurt -I was born and raised blue collar, so I have a tiny amount of respect for paper pushers and motivators, deal with it. And personally, I think that the urge of wearing a fancy shirt and seating behind a desk all day while your wife tells everyone you're a manager is one of the things that's ruining America.
How about the pride of coming home with dirty hands and being able to point at something at the end of the day and say "I built this" ? (I know, but then you'll make $12/hour, and go live off that, I know).

But, in your husbands case, he was in the producing sector as an engineer, and they get paid well.

I have only one advice, for better job security and more stable future, your husband needs to go back to the producing sector. Yes, he's a project manager now, but he should also send CVs to engineering jobs, if he lands one, your future may just get more stable.

As for finding jobs, my go-to site is Craigslist. One can find $8/hour gigs up to $100K+/year there.

Good luck.
 
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Yes, it's not fun to go through this, I'm sure.

IYDM, I'll tell you my honest opinion:

Your husband made a mistake when switching from the producing sector (engineer) to the non-producing sector (project manager), it's no wonder why he is a part of the group that's being laid off first, it's just about how expandable his position is, and how easy it is to refill it once needs arise.

Before any readers get butthurt -I was born and raised blue collar, so I have a tiny amount of respect for paper pushers and motivators, deal with it. And personally, I think that the urge of wearing a fancy shirt and seating behind a desk all day while your wife tells everyone you're a manager is one of the things that's ruining America.
How about the pride of coming home with dirty hands and being able to point at something at the end of the day and say "I built this" ? (I know, but then you'll make $12/hour, and go live off that, I know).

But, in your husbands case, he was in the producing sector as an engineer, and they get paid well.

I have only one advice, for better job security and more stable future, your husband needs to go back to the producing sector. Yes, he's a project manager now, but he should also send CVs to engineering jobs, if he lands one, your future may just get more stable.

As for finding jobs, my go-to site is Craigslist. One can find $8/hour gigs up to $100K+/year there.

Good luck.

I understand your point and don't totally disagree, but it really isn't that simple.

When I graduated college (1970) tons of engineers were being laid off everywhere. I was expecting an offer from my former Co-Op employer (Raytheon) but due to a mistake by HR (terminating me after my last Co-Op term instead of putting me as inactive due to returning to school) they couldn't hire me while laying people off. So I did odd jobs until I landed a job at GD/EB. I left there 3 years later to return to Raytheon (and go to grad school) and lasted 18 months as an engineer until they lost a large contract and laid off ~1000 engineers (last in, first out). Went to grad school, worked for the PD part-time, etc. until hired at Stone & Webster Engineering (at least it was only ~1/2 mile from grad school-Suffolk University). CA outlawed nuclear plants and at least 1000 engineers & others were laid off (myself and a lawyer in our group-Licensing Division hit the bricks). This time I had an immediate offer by Yankee Atomic, but wanted out of the gov't controlled industries but took the job anyway. Left there and went to DEC. Promoted to engineering supervisor . . . eventually when things started downhill for DEC my manager explained that we had to cut overhead and therefore I would have to do projects as well as manage people. I convinced him to just let me do projects (protection from a layoff of overhead at that time) and he took over all my management responsibilities instead. So I agree somewhat with your statement that engineers are more stable than management, but it certainly is no guarantee of job security in itself. So, I've ridden the unemployment roller-coaster over my career. I learned early on to bank as much as possible especially when both of us were working, so we were never in financial danger thru the rough times.
 
Being an engineer is no guarantee. When I worked at a pharmaceuticals company, they laid off 98% of the programmers in the Informatics group and kept almost all of the managers.
 
Deb,

I'm really sorry to hear about your predicament and how the American Dream has been ruined for so many. No guarantees. Perhaps your husband can turn to the public sector and find something but even there things are drying up.

Wish you all the best.
 
Thank you all.

As for going back to being a software engineer - well, 5 - 10 years away from the programming side is an eternity these days.
 
Survival tip:

Find somewhere other than home to be every day. I think spending so much time together when we would normally be apart due to our work schedules is "not a good thing."
 
Survival tip:

Find somewhere other than home to be every day. I think spending so much time together when we would normally be apart due to our work schedules is "not a good thing."

Ha, yeah it takes a little getting used to. I was on the road for a week at a time before I got whacked, and there was a little bit of a readjustment period when I stopped leaving for work. It wasn't bad, but we just how to figure out how to have me home all the time. It worked itself out.
 
Budget: (yes this again)
I cant stress how important it is to have a budget ahead of time to be able to store the necessities and put some money aside and eliminate debt.

It's also vitally important after job loss to take a knife to that budget again. So how have we done that?

Food budget - cut in half almost. We are eating more of our 'stored' food. Not eating out. Stuff like that. We still eat very well. When he goes back to work we will replace what we have eaten but we cant pay rent with canned meats, the landlord wants USD. (fool LOL) We are better at planning our meals for the week and shop 1x. If something is forgotten we try to do without or pick it up during a normal course of driving.


Gas for cars - consolidate our trips (see above). And the teen knows that we aren't going to be driving him more because dad is home when he gets home from school. So he still arranges rides with friends etc when he can and we still give him rides sometimes but he also walks. Good news is with gas prices dropping we still spend less and haven't had to cut much of our traveling. We also use the minivan more often as it is better on gas. If I'm home and husband is headed out, he takes the van unless I am planning on going somewhere also and further.

Health insurance was cancelled and we got a partial refund for this month as well.

Of course other things in our budget like "savings" and "prepping" got cut 100%.

I'm doing our taxes this year even though we had that money already set aside to have the accountant do it. So there's more $$$ we have that was planned to be spent. I looked at last years tax return and it's actually a lot easier than last years return (part year mass resident, some NH income, some MA, etc). SO I feel confident that I wont fudge this up.

Yes we have severance and unused vacation time he didn't use that he got paid for but we DIDNT wait for that to 'run out' to make these changes to our spending. By 'run out' I mean if you have a 4 week severance check plus your final paycheck plus unused vacation that totals 7 weeks in all, we would live the same way for 7 weeks and then make changes. This is not the best plan. If you can cut your expenses by 20%/week then in 4 weeks you will have gained an extra week on that severance check. Now you have enough money for 8 weeks instead of 7, and in another 3 weeks you will have almost another weeks expenses still.

Important note: In NH, your severance will be 'run out' before you collect unemployment. In MA, you can collect right away. Also, the max in NH you can collect is about $200 less per week than MA. I would suggest that everyone figure out what they would collect if they lost their job, when they can start collecting, etc. If you and your spouse works, figure this out for each of you. You collect from the state that you were employed in.

One thing I haven't done is actually enter my budget numbers into the budget even though we have made the changes. That will get done this weekend hopefully.
 
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