Tense Situation

[M1911]

Folks, while in general carrying pepper spray is a reasonable idea, using it in a confined space like a subway car will impact everyone in the car including yourself — that would be a very big mistake.

Your best bet is to get off the train at the next stop, which on Red Line comes very frequently.

One more thing: using OC spray is still a use of force and is likely to result in you getting arrested and quite possibly charged. I met a fellow in NY who was attacked by a fellow over a stupid parking lot dispute. That fellow used OC spray on the guy, and was then arrested and charged with assault and battery. It took a year and $10k in legal fees to resolve the situation.

 

[PATRON]

We all agree that getting off the train is number one on the list,but what do you do if they are going to give you a whoop ass before you can get off the train?

 

[bandaid bandit]

I share the views of those above wrt OC on a crowded train car. I vote that you carry/deploy a taser first. after the first one or two is flopping around on the floor like a fish, the others will likely stop.

 

[42!]

Folks, while in general carrying pepper spray is a reasonable idea, using it in a confined space like a subway car will impact everyone in the car including yourself — that would be a very big mistake.

Your best bet is to get off the train at the next stop, which on Red Line comes very frequently.

One more thing: using OC spray is still a use of force and is likely to result in you getting arrested and quite possibly charged. I met a fellow in NY who was attacked by a fellow over a stupid parking lot dispute. That fellow used OC spray on the guy, and was then arrested and charged with assault and battery. It took a year and $10k in legal fees to resolve the situation.

If you use OC and you are CCW, and you get charged, you could always argue that you used the minimal amount of force necessary to stop the threat....I could have shot him your honor.

 

[Mr.E]

I share the views of those above wrt OC on a crowded train car. I vote that you carry/deploy a taser first. after the first one or two is flopping around on the floor like a fish, the others will likely stop.

Sure, because aggressive drunk groups always think logically and rationally.
I guarantee you’d be tackled and then find yourself with a taser.

4:1 is no time to take chances. What if one had a weapon? If OP was to engage keeping distance is the most important thing. A taser is up close and personal , bad move. Most suggestions given so far are pure crap.

 

[PATRON]

Please enlighten me,your in a moving train what would you do?

 

[Mr.E]

Please enlighten me,your in a moving train what would you do?

I’ve posted this already , step 1 diffuse, if that doesn’t work then step 2 is run, if neither works or is possible, fire as safely ( ie. other passengers in mind) as possible.
This all hinges on them closing in on you as well..lip service from halfway across the train doesn’t cut it.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

God you guys are all rookies.... the answer is simple.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysIsqzXZyN0

 

[PATRON]

Please let me know if you ever do this where to send the soap on a rope to.

 

[Mr.E]

Please let me know if you ever do this where to send the soap on a rope to.

No prob, and when I get out I’ll visit you in the ICU they stick you in after being foot stomped trying to rationalize with 4 drunks

 

[PATRON]

Rationalizing,or trying to diffuse was the first thing you stated that you would do with running coming up second.It's just the third one we don't agree on,or should I say when to use it.The moment the first two don't work,and you have to revert to some form of defense your most likely going to end up in jail.I can fight a shooting charge in court a lot better if I show that I used a form of non- lethal defense before I had to use lethal. Assault,and murder have two different jail terms.Shooting one of them does not guaranty the rest won't be able to whoop your ass.

 

[Mr.E]

Rationalizing,or trying to diffuse was the first thing you stated that you would do with running coming up second.It's just the third one we don't agree on,or should I say when to use it.The moment the first two don't work,and you have to revert to some form of defense your most likely going to end up in jail.I can fight a shooting charge in court a lot better if I show that I used a form of non- lethal defense before I had to use lethal. Assault,and murder have two different jail terms.Shooting one of them does not guaranty the rest won't be able to whoop your ass.

Hence the distance, which is the weakest link of your plan. Once they are within arms length (which they need to be with your plan) you’re screwed . Have you ever actually witnessed a group fight? Arms length with 4 attackers you will lose and lose big.

 

[PATRON]

I have been in a group fight.

 

[bandaid bandit]

Sure, because aggressive drunk groups always think logically and rationally.
I guarantee you’d be tackled and then find yourself with a taser.

4:1 is no time to take chances. What if one had a weapon? If OP was to engage keeping distance is the most important thing. A taser is up close and personal , bad move. Most suggestions given so far are pure crap.

The taser I carry and regularly train with has an effective range of 25’, with two sets of prongs. Drop one, maybe 2, then draw and fire should that fail to dissuade them. Is it a risk, sure. That said, absent actually being in the situation, it’s hard to give a “real” game plan for it. Should needs dictate, there’s always the choice to skip the non/less lethal and go straight to deadly force. Aside from being easier to win the inevitable court case, it’s always good to have options (and more importantly, the knowledge to know when to deploy which tool)

 

[42!]

The taser I carry and regularly train with has an effective range of 25’, with two sets of prongs. Drop one, maybe 2, then draw and fire should that fail to dissuade them. Is it a risk, sure. That said, absent actually being in the situation, it’s hard to give a “real” game plan for it. Should needs dictate, there’s always the choice to skip the non/less lethal and go straight to deadly force. Aside from being easier to win the inevitable court case, it’s always good to have options (and more importantly, the knowledge to know when to deploy which tool)

From what I've read and heard from those that instruct, and a number of videos, reaction distance is 20'. Closer than that and you do not have time to draw an fire. That's not to say you wouldn't get a round or two off, but they will be more from the hip and up against the assailant. than any kind of aimed shot. Deploying a taser at 25' isn't giving yourself a lot of space to work with.

I do find this 20' difficult to see an unarmed attacker, or even multiple attackers, as an imminent threat to my life. I suspect that in the real world, I would be letting them in closer than 20' while I was still working on de-escalation, assuming unarmed. Carrying a weapon changes everything.

 

[bandaid bandit]

From what I've read and heard from those that instruct, and a number of videos, reaction distance is 20'. Closer than that and you do not have time to draw an fire. That's not to say you wouldn't get a round or two off, but they will be more from the hip and up against the assailant. than any kind of aimed shot. Deploying a taser at 25' isn't giving yourself a lot of space to work with.

I do find this 20' difficult to see an unarmed attacker, or even multiple attackers, as an imminent threat to my life. I suspect that in the real world, I would be letting them in closer than 20' while I was still working on de-escalation, assuming unarmed. Carrying a weapon changes everything.

I’d much prefer some more distance, but the longest set of probes I’ve seen Axon/Taser put out are 25’. That said, if you know of longer ones for the Taser X2, please PM a source, and I’d happily buy them.

That said, no matter the defensive implement used, it’s all about trying to achieve he best/least bad outcome for oneself possible.

 

[Wendell]

...some drunk chick starts throwing sexual connotations towards me, I just smirk and tell her I am taken. Probably a minute passes before she gets up and approaches me placing her hand on my chest as I didn't notice her approaching because I was staring at my cellphone. I gently take her hand off my chest and tell her in a firm voice that I am not interested and if she could sit back down. This is where things take a wrong turn, apparently her also drunk brother took this the wrong way and screamed at me to not touch his sister. The brother and 4 other guys presumably his friends all get up talking trash to me and starting to close the distance. I'm already standing at this point and although it didn't help the situation I was chuckling a bit at the idiots. As you can probably tell the situation is very tense now and is moving in a violent direction. They are screaming how they are going to kick my a** and head stomp me. So here I am clearly outnumbered and what looks like a situation where they are going to try to jump me as like I said they were closing the distance and try to rush me. To make the story short the situation got resolved...

Really? I'm the ONLY one thinking Jack Reacher?

 

[AHM]

Folks, while in general carrying pepper spray is a reasonable idea, using it in a confined space like a subway car will impact everyone in the car including yourself — that would be a very big mistake.

Your best bet is to get off the train at the next stop, ...

Ripped from the pages of yesterday's news:

NYT: Woman Attacks 7 People With Pepper Spray in Manhattan in What Police Say May Be a Hate Crime

ABC7NY: Police launch hate crime investigation after woman sprays unknown substance at subway riders in NYC

Spoiler: The victims should have followed Gracie Allen's advice

(Gracie's riding a bus).
Gracie (to stranger):

What's the matter mister? You look worried.​

Stranger:

I'm supposed to get off at Elm Street, but I don't know this town,
and I'm afraid I won't be able to signal the driver to stop in time.​

Gracie:

Oh that's easy. I ride this line all the time.
Just get off three stops before I do.​

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