The dreaded 40 conundrum

[T-Unit]

It isn't- Ballistics wise its "sufficient" - I was more poking fun at the design progeny of the cartridge.... it's one of the few intentionally designed to be weaker. There's a reason there's no +P .40....

-Mike

It's loaded weaker because there's almost no space between the 180 grain bullets and the powder. Any more powder and you have a dangerous pressure spike.

The .40 was made to reduce the size of the cartridge so it could fit in smaller frame pistols, but be equal in recoil and power to the downloaded FBI 10mm. All the manufacturer's wanted was to put the hot new .40 in the same frames as their 9mm. If they made a properly sized frame just for .40, they could probably up the power and pressures a bit.

The industry doesn't care to cater to what could be or innovate, they just make what sells. The industry could make a killing with a tiny 5 shot .32 revolver that's in between the size of the North American Arms mini revolvers and a J frame, but that requires too much investment. Even tho 50% of all women who carry a gun would buy that tiny .32 revolver.

 

[CoastieRon]

At one time I had 26 handguns. About 4 or 5 of them at the time were .40s. They started to collect dust in the safe. I didn't shoot them recreationally because the caliber is overkill for
plates and insufficient for full table bowling pin matches. For defense the recoil management and speed were often iffy compared to even +P+ 9mm and some.45 ACP platforms I have. Why would
I want to keep putting practice effort into something I shoot slower? When I needed money, they were the first to go, and I didn't feel a tinge of regret, maybe a little for the USP .40 full, but
that's about it. (as IMHO it was a properly designed handgun for .40 S&W, albeit huge). Years later, I got a G22 Gen4 on a lark about a year or so after it came out. I took it out a few times, it ran well enough, but while constantly fighting to keep my support grip on the thing (and not having to do this even with other more powerful guns, like my G30SF at the time ) I realized the futility of the whole idea and sold it about 2 months
later. The only way I'd ever go back to .40 in a "serious" way is if I wanted to get into USPSA Limited or similar kind of competition, where the allure of cheap reloads, and cheap, disposable
brass, and great accuracy (in some guns) is undeniable.

-Mike

I have to agree. I bought a Springfield xD .40 because I was used to shooting .40 in the CG. I should have waited a little longer and purchased the same firearm I was used to (Sig P229R DAK). I bought the 9mm Storm Lake conversion barrel to shoot it more, but find that the 1911 comes out way more than the xD, and the Mark IV more than the 1911. If/when I decide to sell or trade any firearm in the safe, that's the xD is the one that is going.

 

[T-Unit]

So everyone (mostly) hates on the .40 because it's 10MM short. So, what if the 10MM had never been invented and forty just evolved on it's own? What would be the rationale for hating it then?

They hate .40 because ammo isn't as cheap as 9mm (but .40 doesn't cost as much as .45 and everyone loves .45 even tho it's an obsolete cartridge today) and it has more felt recoil.

One thing that .40 does today that affects 10mm tho is the JHP bullets for the caliber are all based on .40 velocity, not 10mm. Crank up the velocity on those bullets in 10mm and they fall apart in tissue and don't penetrate. That's not necessarily because of .40, but the industry not making JHP bullets based around higher velocity 10mm.

Fact is with .40 you are shooting a larger bullet as fast as 9mm when you compare different loads equally. 180 gr is as fast as 147 grain 9mm, but is heavier. 165 grain is as fast 124 gr 9mm, 155 is close to 115 gr 9mm in velocity, but the bullets are all larger.

 

[Dennis in MA]

The FBI never said 9mm is "Better" they said it was as effective as .40 now. That wasn't all, the two reasons they went back to 9mm was the women couldn't shoot .40 and 9mm ammo bought in large quantities was cheaper.

So you're saying that the people on this board who can't handle .40 are girly-men???



I've got plenty of .40 left to shoot my Fo-Teez. Bought relatively cheap. Plus a pile of my own reloads. Some day, if it's too expensive, I'll stop.

 

[T-Unit]

40 cal. is great !...........(in a carbine or an all metal pistol. )
In a sub-compact......(its like dynamite in your hands!)
Dont know why anyone would buy a Shield in 40?
My hand hurts just thinking about that

My Glock 27 feels like shooting .357 in a K frame, but it's not painful. I can shoot it for hours no problem. Can't shoot it fast tho, not at distance, but I can crank out about 1 shot every second accurately.

I agree with you on something tho that .40 is great in large/full size framed pistols. Don't have to be metal, the Glock 35 is plenty easy to shoot .40 in. In a sub-compact single stack poly pistol, I prefer 9mm. Those are sized to the 9mm, they're as small as they can be, but still effective and more controllable.

Everyone wants to have a one caliber solution for all their pistols small to large. It makes it easy, one ammo for many guns, but it's not necessarily what's best. 9mm is great in small pistols, .40 or 10mm is better in large pistols, .45 is great for suppressed pistols. Each caliber has its strengths, playing to them goes far.

I would mention mag capacity, but when you Mass boys are cucked to 10 rds, it's irrelevant.

 

[T-Unit]

So you're saying that the people on this board who can't handle .40 are girly-men???

They just think shooting a 9mm like it's a machine pistol is the way to go, it's not. It's fun to do at the range at a stationary target and think if Juan Crackhead is trying to rob you when you leave the liquor store you can turn him into a slice of 9mm Swiss cheese, but in reality you're not going to be touching off 10 rds at a moving target that fast and you won't even feel the recoil with the adrenaline.

As for handling .40, about the only .40 I struggle to handle is the Kel Tec Sub 2000. That this is so light and is a straight blowback action it leaves a bruise on my shoulder every time I shoot it and it rattles my teeth. That is one gun I wish I had bought in 9mm, but whatever. It's cool to have a rifle that folds in half, has mags that hold 30 rds, and can launch some 200 grain pills at 1100 fps.

That's a lot of firepower for something so easy to carry.

 

[Glockster30]

Glad to see that there are still some shooters that have some common sense when it comes to the .40.

 

[Supermoto]

The FBI never said 9mm is "Better" they said it was as effective as .40 now. That wasn't all, the two reasons they went back to 9mm was the women couldn't shoot .40 and 9mm ammo bought in large quantities was cheaper.

Less than 20% of Agents are women, So its sounds like it was the "men" having the issue

 

[wahsben]

Less than 20% of Agents are women, So its sounds like it was the "men" having the issue

You should know that all it takes is one woman to complain and everything has to be changed.

 

[Glockster30]

So you're saying that the people on this board who can't handle .40 are girly-men???



I've got plenty of .40 left to shoot my Fo-Teez. Bought relatively cheap. Plus a pile of my own reloads. Some day, if it's too expensive, I'll stop.

No, they're just beginners or average shooters that can't handle the .40.

But a bigger diameter and greater power don’t necessarily give the .40 S&W a clear-cut win over the 9mm. The issue with the .40 caliber has always been its recoil and how much more difficult the gun is to control than the 9mm for beginners and even average shooters in some cases.

9mm vs .40 S&W: Is Bigger Always Better? - Pew Pew Tactical

 

[weekendracer]

The FBI never said 9mm is "Better" they said it was as effective as .40 now. That wasn't all, the two reasons they went back to 9mm was the women couldn't shoot .40 and 9mm ammo bought in large quantities was cheaper.

Do you say 'to-mah-to' or 'to-may-to'?

 

[180 GRAIN FMJ]

The FBI never said 9mm is "Better" they said it was as effective as .40 now. That wasn't all, the two reasons they went back to 9mm was the women couldn't shoot .40 and 9mm ammo bought in large quantities was cheaper.

Plus every time they switch calibers they get new toys, so there's that...

 

[Glockster30]

Must be where the phony story about the FBI and S&W intentionally downsizing the 10mm came from...to get new toys.

 

[wahsben]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJTAbYGrYDc