The Liberty Training Rifle

[namedpipes]

Bah. Who can afford .22lr ammo anymore, even if you can find it!



(kidding - the LTR mods make the 10-22 a very fun AND useful rifle, even if you don't use it for an Appleseed)

 

[BigDaddyAl]

I'm hoping that 2014 is the year I build a LTR and learn how to shoot a rifle. I can foresee my wife and daughter being interested in doing an Appleseed course with me. Is sharing a rifle between two or three people feasible during one Appleseed event? (sorry if this was asked and answered, but I'm not going to go through 600+ posts to check.)

 

[namedpipes]

I'm hoping that 2014 is the year I build a LTR and learn how to shoot a rifle. I can foresee my wife and daughter being interested in doing an Appleseed course with me. Is sharing a rifle between two or three people feasible during one Appleseed event? (sorry if this was asked and answered, but I'm not going to go through 600+ posts to check.)

* I am not an Appleseed official.

You need one rifle per participant, but often you can borrow one.

Are you the Al that setup the Cannery trips a while back?

 

[BigDaddyAl]

You need one rifle per participant, but often you can borrow one.

OK, thanks. It may be a good excuse to buy more than one.

Are you the Al that setup the Cannery trips a while back?

Yes.

 

[eisenhow]

I'm hoping that 2014 is the year I build a LTR and learn how to shoot a rifle. I can foresee my wife and daughter being interested in doing an Appleseed course with me. Is sharing a rifle between two or three people feasible during one Appleseed event? (sorry if this was asked and answered, but I'm not going to go through 600+ posts to check.)

Alan, you're each going to need your own rifle. I've got two 10/22 LTR's. One has iron tech sites, the other has a Simmons 4x scope. You're welcome to borrow them (w/ slings and mags) for an Appleseed with your family.

 

[BigDaddyAl]

Alan, you're each going to need your own rifle. I've got two 10/22 LTR's. One has iron tech sites, the other has a Simmons 4x scope. You're welcome to borrow them (w/ slings and mags) for an Appleseed with your family.

Thanks Mike! I'll let you know.

 

[Coyote33]

I see at Sights & Slings, these:

Rifle Sling
AS918
$14.50
New USGI version of the M1 Rifle Sling, 1.25" wide with Parkerized hardware in 100% cotton OD web. Great non-slip keeper. Includes instructions for correct attachement. (Requires 1.25" sling swivels, not included)

Sling Swivel Set
AS920
$6.50
Pair of 1.25" quick disconnect sling swivels for rifles with pre-mounted studs. (If your rifle stock does not have studs, it is best to consult a gunsmith or competent technician for their installation.)

What about the studs for the 10/22? I'd really hate to have to go another place for those, so might consider just doing another cart someplace else.

What exactly is needed for the 10/22?

Also, I am interested again in checking out the Tech Sights some time. I wanted to give them a try before I just haul off and put on a 3x or 4x scope (old eyes). Anyone in Worcester area have Tech Sights on one of these they'd be willing to let me try out? I'll front some .22 ammo, coffee, and range time with you.

Finally, how come the "Appleseed thing" has gone so quiet lately? This used to be a busy area on NES.

Thanks.

 

[KMM696]

Uncle Mikes makes a swivel stud set that works for 10/22s that didn't have them from the factory, and doesn't have a barrel band.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/366960/uncle-mikes-sling-swivel-stud-115-b-set?cm_vc=ProductFinding

The woodscrew one is for the butt, the other goes through the stock below the barrel.

This style for a barrel band 10/22:

 

[inerlogic]

I am interested again in checking out the Tech Sights some time. I wanted to give them a try before I just haul off and put on a 3x or 4x scope (old eyes). Anyone in Worcester area have Tech Sights on one of these they'd be willing to let me try out? I'll front some .22 ammo, coffee, and range time with you.

I've got 2 LTRs, not near Worcester though..... if you like AR iron sights, you'll like the tech sights...... they were the first thing i looked for after i got my 10/22s before even knowing what an LTR was....

If you can't get it together before a Monadnock car shoot, send me a PM and i'll bring an LTR with me.....

 

[dwarven1]

What about the studs for the 10/22? I'd really hate to have to go another place for those, so might consider just doing another cart someplace else.

See post below.

What exactly is needed for the 10/22?

See post below. Seriously. This is all gone over in that post. I even updated the prices and links.

Also, I am interested again in checking out the Tech Sights some time. I wanted to give them a try before I just haul off and put on a 3x or 4x scope (old eyes). Anyone in Worcester area have Tech Sights on one of these they'd be willing to let me try out? I'll front some .22 ammo, coffee, and range time with you.

I could bring mine down sometime in the New Year. I've got two - one with a Weaver steel tube 2x8 and one with Tech-Sights. I won't be in Waltham again until the first full week in January, though. Or if you ever get to Starksboro, we can shoot off my deck at the steel gong 75 yards out.

Finally, how come the "Appleseed thing" has gone so quiet lately? This used to be a busy area on NES.

I moved to Vermont and got my FFL. Seriously, we still have shoots in MA; Lupis42 is one of the shoot bosses here.

Well, I know that this is a cross-post, but I feel that it belongs here in the Appleseed forum as well as in JonJ's 10/22 Goodness thread. (Please don't send me to the Outer Darkness with Capt Walt and Jellyfish for cross-posting!)

This is excerpted from Nickle's post on building a Liberty Training Rifle out of a Ruger 10/22 from www.appleseedinfo.org from this thread with some modifications by me after building several of these things and seeing how they perform in the real world.

Well, here's what I did (or will do, in the case of a couple items), the cost of the items, and this is a decent priced, working setup. All prices are retail. They are not special or sale prices, nor are they group buy prices. These are 24/7/365 retail prices.

First, I started with Ruger 10/22 Carbines.

Add Tech Sights.
http://www.tech-sights.com/ruger3.htm $59.00
Add DPMS Rapidex knob, for ease of adjusting (optional but highly recommended).
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=353544 $7.99

Install sling swivels studs, detachable swivels and a USGI M1 Garand type sling.
Stud & swivel set: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=705310 $9.49
Sling: ="http://store.rwvaappleseed.com/page13.html $14.50

These can be substituted if you can't find the Uncle Mike's above:
Studs: http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=366960 $2.59
Swivels: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/13...e-super-sling-swivel-set?cm_vc=ProductFinding $8.99 - remember to select 1-1/4" swivels!

Add extended mag release (not needed if you have the polymer trigger group 10/22)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=662086 $5.49

Replace bolt release and hammer (or rework existing ones). I reworked mine. Not for the inexperienced. Note that the polymer trigger group has a different hammer (maybe the sear, too - not sure) and please double-check to be sure that you're ordering the right parts!
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=145851 $44.99
If you're happy with your trigger, then at the very least replace the bolt release (or rework yours. It's not very hard - Ross)
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=688102 11.99 (this is one of the BEST things you can do to your 10/22!)

Add a BoreSnake, sight adjusting tool and spare mags.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=260083 $13.99
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=260328 $9.79
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=252579 $16.99 each. I recommend at LEAST 4 of them as Ruger is only shipping one mag with the rifles now.

My comments after [STRIKE="way too many"]dozens[/STRIKE] way too many Appleseed Shoots and building 6 LTRs:

1: You want FIVE 10-round mags total. Not two 25 rounders (they get in the way when you're shooting prone, as do the back-to-back magazine clips) but 5 10 rounders. 'Cause Northeastern Appleseed Instructors are, by and large, HUGE believers in the 40-shot rapid fire AQT - 40 rounds in 4 minutes. You do NOT have time to reload mags during that. Plus, the fifth mag is VERY useful if you have a malfunction of any sort - you don't have to fumble with reloading a mag when that 4 minute time limit is bearing down on you. You've got extra rounds right there.

2: there is a TON of good information on working on the 10/22 action on www.rimfirecentral.com. Info on how to lighten up the trigger yourself, info on how to make your own auto bolt release, etc. Use that site; it's a great reference.

3: You can find lots of cheap factory parts for the 10/22 on eBay. People buy new barrels, stocks, etc, and their first thought is "Gee, let me sell it!". That's to your benefit. I picked up a stock in good shape for about $30 total so I could experiment on cutting it down for a shorter length of pull since I'm a short guy. Worked great, and if I'd screwed it up, I could just have put my old stock back on; no harm, no foul.

4: Shooter's Ridge QD sling swivels suck; they do not hold up under usage. Use Uncle Mike's swivels instead - they are much more sturdy.The Outdoor Connection Talon are OK but I'm not terribly enamored of the squared off rings.They do, however, hold up far better than the Shooter's Ridge crap.

5: Volquartsen Exact Edge extractors are a Good Thing - about 700 rounds through two LTRs now, and NO more stovepipes. - update - another several hundred rounds downrange and NO stovepipes. For $12.99, this is the BEST thing you can do to cure your extraction woes.

6: Carry a large screwdriver to keep your action take down screw tight, a small one to keep your Tech-Sights rear sight tight, a 5/64" Allen wrench to keep your front sight tight, and a 9/64" Allen wrench to take your mags apart if you need to clean them. NOTE: You need to turn the hex two and a half turns.

7: The Rapidex adjusting knob is worthwhile; just be aware you'll need a fine pin-punch to remove the old wheel and install the knob. And the recent production Tech-Sights seem to have that pin in there TIGHT.


Prices and links updated on 12/22/2014.

 

[Almostelmo]

Very timely bump of this thread. I'm planning to pick up a 10/22 sometime in the next few weeks and am definitely going to attend an appleseed this year.

 

[exo]

Very timely bump of this thread. I'm planning to pick up a 10/22 sometime in the next few weeks and am definitely going to attend an appleseed this year.

If you can, attend an April 18/19 Appleseed. It adds a little something extra to the experience, IMO. If you don't know why those dates are important, you'll find out

 

[Coyote33]

I have the one with barrel bands. It looks like some places have different studs for ones with barrel bands. Some places even have a whole new band, with the piece integrated. Should I just wing it, and hope I get the right one?

 

[Almostelmo]

Finishing up my LTR today. I'll put some pics up later. I picked up a bull barrel for my 10/22, so I got the adaptor from tech sights. If anyone's ever seen these adaptors, the finish is pretty rough. I don't have a before pic, but it has some kind of phosphate finish, which looked out of place on my blued barrel. I sanded the finish off, sanded the pitting out, and put a fine grain on it. I'll cold blue it before installing.

 

[Almostelmo]

Crappy cell phone pic, but here it is. Hogue stock, green mountain 16" fluted bull barrel, tech sights. I'm planning on getting a volquartsen hammer and calling it done.

 

[Coyote33]

Anyone have a link that works for front sling "stud" that attaches to the barrel band instead of drilling? Thanks.

 

[Almostelmo]

Anyone have a link that works for front sling "stud" that attaches to the barrel band instead of drilling? Thanks.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/78...ngle-shot-ruger-carbine-sling-swivels-1-black

 

[Coyote33]

Forend adapter with stud installes in the barrel band of gun

I think this is the piece on the bottom. I just need that and the longer stud for the rear. I can't find those by themselves anywhere.

 

[Almostelmo]

I think this is the piece on the bottom. I just need that and the longer stud for the rear. I can't find those by themselves anywhere.

Yup, that's what you need. As for finding just the stud and the barrel band sling adaptor on their own, good luck. I found this on ebay, but for the price I'd just buy a set with the sling swivels included and have a spare set (if you've already bought sling swivels)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Sling...795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4849700b

 

[Coyote33]

Yup, that's what you need. As for finding just the stud and the barrel band sling adaptor on their own, good luck. I found this on ebay, but for the price I'd just buy a set with the sling swivels included and have a spare set (if you've already bought sling swivels)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Sling...795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4849700b

I _DID_ buy the swivel and sling from the "Appleseed" place. Now I am regretting that. Surely, there is some way to purchase just that. Either that, or maybe I'll just try to make one.

 

[JackOfAllTrades]

If you can, attend an April 18/19 Appleseed. It adds a little something extra to the experience, IMO. If you don't know why those dates are important, you'll find out

I agree, but disagree.

I have been to two Appleseeds... one was a normal two day event and one was a one day April 19th event.

I got plenty out of each, but it was different things each time.

I did the two day event first and got more than my money's worth out of it. I was able to go from "at least I am on the paper" to rifleman in two days. You are almost learning more than you can fully absorb in those two days. The last day is primarily drills and AQTs, but that is where you go from learning to doing.

I went back and did the one day April 19th event later. There were more people, less time, and extras thrown in. All great and valuable, but it didn't leave enough time to really get any feed back on what you were doing.

On the two day event I was at, the one or two people scoring AQT targets could just about keep up with the people making the holes. This meant that you got to look at what you did and figure out what you were doing right or wrong. On the one day event, there was no way to keep up with the scoring, so you kept putting holes in paper and got no feedback about what you were doing.

I say both are worth doing, but for different reasons.

Also... if you have a 10/22 and Tech Sights... check your cheek weld.

The factory stock is set up for the factory sights. I can get a good cheek weld and look right down the factory sights.
Tech Sights sit almost exactly 1/2 inch higher than the factory sights. This means that the same cheek weld looks at the base of the rear sight. To see down the sights you either need to modify your cheek weld in some way or raise the comb height.

I had trouble reproducing my rifleman score until I added a 1/2 inch riser to my stock. That solved my problems.

I would say for anyone, close your eyes, get a good cheek weld and then open then to see where you are. Be honest. It probably isn't where you think you are.

 

[namedpipes]

Anyone have a link that works for front sling "stud" that attaches to the barrel band instead of drilling? Thanks.

Supposedly one can buy "stock" stocks for relatively short money (people upgrading with aftermarket stocks, I guess), if you don't want to drill your own.

 

[Coyote33]

Supposedly one can buy "stock" stocks for relatively short money (people upgrading with aftermarket stocks, I guess), if you don't want to drill your own.

For that price, I'd just get the second set. I was hoping I'd find the stupid little piece somewhere. Stupid Appleseed store!

Anybody have a picture of this thing in place? I think a short piece of steel with two holes in it would do. I'd just need the hole size, and then paint it black to match.

So ticked, 'cause I'm a perfectionist on this stuff.

That said, if anyone wants to buy the set I got from the stupid Appleseed store, then I can just off and buy the right one from Uncle Mike's.

 

[snd1t]

Never understood why anyone would dump money into a money hole of a 1022 when they can get a bolt/mag kit from CMMG to shoot 22 in their AR

THIS is the perfect "Liberty Rifle"

 

[exo]

Never understood why anyone would dump money into a money hole of a 1022 when they can get a bolt/mag kit from CMMG to shoot 22 in their AR

THIS is the perfect "Liberty Rifle"

A lot of those conversions don't hold up well to the volume of ammunition used at an Appleseed.

 

[snd1t]

A lot of those conversions don't hold up well to the volume of ammunition used at an Appleseed.

I know a lot of folks that use them and have never seen issue.

Need to clean periodically b/c 22 is dirty dirty ammo and send a few rounds of 556 through it when done but the CMMG kit (stainless or other) hold up better than the 1022 which is a notorious money hole

 

[namedpipes]

I know a lot of folks that use them and have never seen issue.

Need to clean periodically b/c 22 is dirty dirty ammo and send a few rounds of 556 through it when done but the CMMG kit (stainless or other) hold up better than the 1022 which is a notorious money hole

Money hole? Not going to claim it is the end all of rifles, but mine was inexpensive, easily modified with a few inexpensive aftermarket parts into a much better ergonomic package, shoots cheap ammo, accurately and uses supremely reliable 10 round mags. I even have a preban 30 round mag (totally UNreliable) for fun.

I do need to buy/install a new front sight but that is the only repair needed since I bought it five or six years ago.

 

[Coyote33]

Yup, that's what you need. As for finding just the stud and the barrel band sling adaptor on their own, good luck. I found this on ebay, but for the price I'd just buy a set with the sling swivels included and have a spare set (if you've already bought sling swivels)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Allen-Sling...795?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a4849700b

I _DID_ buy the swivel and sling from the "Appleseed" place. Now I am regretting that. Surely, there is some way to purchase just that. Either that, or maybe I'll just try to make one.

For that price, I'd just get the second set. I was hoping I'd find the stupid little piece somewhere. Stupid Appleseed store!

Anybody have a picture of this thing in place? I think a short piece of steel with two holes in it would do. I'd just need the hole size, and then paint it black to match.

So ticked, 'cause I'm a perfectionist on this stuff.

That said, if anyone wants to buy the set I got from the stupid Appleseed store, then I can just off and buy the right one from Uncle Mike's.

Anyone have a picture of that barrel band piece installed?
Anyone have the measurements, so I could try to make one myself?
Anyone know if they are available somewhere, maybe Uncle Mike's directly?
Anyone want to buy the sling swivels from me, so I can order the right one, with the barrel band piece included?

 

[snd1t]

Money hole? Not going to claim it is the end all of rifles, but mine was inexpensive, easily modified with a few inexpensive aftermarket parts into a much better ergonomic package, shoots cheap ammo, accurately and uses supremely reliable 10 round mags. I even have a preban 30 round mag (totally UNreliable) for fun.

I do need to buy/install a new front sight but that is the only repair needed since I bought it five or six years ago.

I will admit up front to being a borderline hater of the 10/22...especially as a "Liberty Rifle"

Sights suck

Trigger sucks

Stock sucks

First two need to be addressed before the rifle becomes even marginally usable.....and even after thats all done its not a particularly accurate rifle without dumping a pile of money into it.

and even when done the rifle has a crappy sight picture/function even with tech sights and a marginal trigger/etc

Whats the point of "training" with a rifle thats nothing like what you would ACTUALLY use in the event of a zombie invasion of your neighborhood?

Never could understand why folks would dick around with a 10/22 when for 150-200 bucks you could use your pre-existing AR

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Never could understand why folks would dick around with a 10/22 when for 150-200 bucks you could use your pre-existing AR

Proper twist rate for one thing. I was getting strikes on the blast baffle of my BCM comp with a CMMG drop in. Now I am spending more money trowing together an upper to make the drop in a dedicated unit with the correct twist rate. That may not matter much for shooting paper at 25 yards, but if you want to push .22 further, or are concerned about baffle strikes on your .22 suppressor like I am, the drop it just doesn't cut it.