Trust Users: Are NFA dealers requiring a signed statement with your Form 4473?

[RockMaple]

The instructions to ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) includes the following:

Question 1. Transferee’s Full Name: The buyer must personally complete Section A of this form and certify (sign) that the answers are true, correct, and complete. However, if the buyer is unable to read and/or write, the answers (other than the signature) may be completed by another person, excluding the seller. Two persons (other than the seller) must then sign as witnesses to the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity. If the buyer’s name in question 1. is illegible, the seller must print the buyer’s name above the name written by the buyer buyer’s answers and signature.

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When the buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity. If the buyer’s name in question 1. is illegible, the seller must print the buyer’s name above the name written by the buyer.

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It's recently come to my attention that some (possibly quite a few) Class III dealers aren't requiring such statements. I wanted to know how often these statements are being required. Have you been asked to sign a statement like this?

Even though this is a dealer obligation, I've started including a statement with my NFA trusts (former clients are welcome to contact me for a free copy).

 

[ScottS]

The instructions to ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) includes the following:

Question 1. Transferee’s Full Name: The buyer must personally complete Section A of this form and certify (sign) that the answers are true, correct, and complete. However, if the buyer is unable to read and/or write, the answers (other than the signature) may be completed by another person, excluding the seller. Two persons (other than the seller) must then sign as witnesses to the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity. If the buyer’s name in question 1. is illegible, the seller must print the buyer’s name above the name written by the buyer buyer’s answers and signature.

​

When the buyer of a firearm is a corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity, an officer authorized to act on behalf of the business must complete Section A of the form with his or her personal information, sign Section A, and attach a written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity. If the buyer’s name in question 1. is illegible, the seller must print the buyer’s name above the name written by the buyer.

​

It's recently come to my attention that some (possibly quite a few) Class III dealers aren't requiring such statements. I wanted to know how often these statements are being required. Have you been asked to sign a statement like this?

Even though this is a dealer obligation, I've started including a statement with my NFA trusts (former clients are welcome to contact me for a free copy).

Since a trust is not a "corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity," why are you including said statements? I've acquired a number (my wife says a large number) of NFA items via trust, from various Class III dealers, and have never provided/signed such a statement.

 

[RockMaple]

Since a trust is not a "corporation, company, association, partnership, or other such business entity," why are you including said statements? I've acquired a number (my wife says a large number) of NFA items via trust, from various Class III dealers, and have never provided/signed such a statement.

The ATF classifies trusts as "other business entities". See for example, question 2 on Form 1 (box 2). As I noted above, I read this as solely a DEALER obligation, but I'm providing it for client convenience. I'm just curious whether or not any dealers are requiring this.

 

[ScottS]

The ATF classifies trusts as "other business entities". See for example, question 2 on Form 1 (box 2). As I noted above, I read this as solely a DEALER obligation, but I'm providing it for client convenience. I'm just curious whether or not any dealers are requiring this.

Never have I seen or signed one of these as a trustee. Four different Class III dealers.

 

[RockMaple]

Never have I seen or signed one of these as a trustee. Four different Class III dealers.

Thanks for the info!

 

[RockMaple]

I'm going to cross-post this on the "General Discussion" board.

 

[atilla]

Never have I seen or signed one of these as a trustee. Four different Class III dealers.

same here.

 

[RockMaple]

Thanks.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

If you didnt sign as the trustee then you assigned someone else to sign that is the trustee ?

Im not quite following here Are you saying you didnt sign because you arent the trustee ?

Never have I seen or signed one of these as a trustee. Four different Class III dealers.

 

[ScottS]

If you didnt sign as the trustee then you assigned someone else to sign that is the trustee ?

Im not quite following here Are you saying you didnt sign because you arent the trustee ?

I'm saying I've never seen nor signed a "written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity."

None of the four Class III dealers I've dealt with have mentioned or presented such a form.

It appears there is some disagreement as to whether or not a trust is a business entity.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

A trust can be a business entity but not always used as such.

Ive used a form of the trust listed below as a vehicle to hold land. You could be a trustee of such a trust and sign as a trustee. If you do business with the trust then its a business entity if you dont then its not, it all depends on the situation.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Massachusetts+Trust

I'm saying I've never seen nor signed a "written statement, executed under penalties of perjury, stating: (A) the firearm is being acquired for the use of and will be the property of that business entity and (B) the name and address of that business entity."

None of the four Class III dealers I've dealt with have mentioned or presented such a form.

It appears there is some disagreement as to whether or not a trust is a business entity.

 

[RockMaple]

As I indicated above, the ATF classifies trusts as "other business entities" so the obligation applies to trusts regardless as to whether the particular trust is acting as a true business entity (in non-ATF speak). See for example, question 2 on ATF Form 1 (box 2).

But you are correct that trusts have been and continue to be used as business entities. For example, in the 19th and early 20th Century, the railroads and oil companies were mostly organized as trusts, and that's why federal anti-monopoly law is called "antitrust".