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Uncle Mas on manual safeties

S

SIGNES

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Massad Ayoob yesterday on the Wilson Combat Channel commenting on manual safeties:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ab_d9lCkg


My unpopular position is: Choose 'em, train on 'em and be glad they're one more thing between you and (re-)holstering accident. It's the same discipline you'd HAVE to apply with a semi-auto rifle which typically have no drop safeties. (Or any safeties really, aside the spring on the firing pin.)
 
Fritz the Cat said:
One you have trained to pop a safety lever on and off, you will not be slowed down at all. All my auto pistols have manual safeties. I Prefer it.
Click to expand...
I mostly carry Glocks these days, but I carried 1911s for years. It doesn't take a lot of training to operate the manual safety properly and it does give an added safety when holstering.

Is a safety "needed". I don't think so. But a manual safety does have some advantages.
 
M1911 said:
I mostly carry Glocks these days, but I carried 1911s for years. It doesn't take a lot of training to operate the manual safety properly and it does give an added safety when holstering.

Is a safety "needed". I don't think so. But a manual safety does have some advantages.
Click to expand...
Have you trained to manipulate a safety during stress?

If you insist on using a manual safety, fine - I get it; but extensively train with it and understand there’s a chance you might not disengage it when you really reaaally need to.
 
SIGNES said:
Massad Ayoob yesterday on the Wilson Combat Channel commenting on manual safeties:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-ab_d9lCkg


My unpopular position is: Choose 'em, train on 'em and be glad they're one more thing between you and (re-)holstering accident. It's the same discipline you'd HAVE to apply with a semi-auto rifle which typically have no drop safeties. (Or any safeties really, aside the spring on the firing pin.)
Click to expand...

who is in a rush to reholster?

Signed, "most of nes that carries guns with no safety lever for decades"
 
Grendizer138 said:
Have you trained to manipulate a safety during stress?

If you insist on using a manual safety, fine - I get it; but extensively train with it and understand there’s a chance you might not disengage it when you really reaaally need to.
Click to expand...
On a gun like a 1911 it's not that big of a deal, i have been carrying glocks for years but my thumb still sweeps the safety that isn't there because of 2 something yrs with colt officers mods.... and a delta elite.
 
I never remove my gun from the holster unless I'm going to clean it or something. And if I ever do holster a loaded gun, I can take the time to look at the holster and make sure my shirts tucked. That's the thing that freaks me out, shirt getting in the holster. I also love a DA/SA gun for this reason. Put your thumb on the hammer when you reholster. If the hammer moves you're about to shoot your foot.
 
whatluck said:
I never remove my gun from the holster unless I'm going to clean it or something. And if I ever do holster a loaded gun, I can take the time to look at the holster and make sure my shirts tucked. That's the thing that freaks me out, shirt getting in the holster. I also love a DA/SA gun for this reason. Put your thumb on the hammer when you reholster. If the hammer moves you're about to shoot your foot.
Click to expand...
Still waiting to know how people “look a gun into the holster” in the dark.
 
whatluck said:
I never remove my gun from the holster unless I'm going to clean it or something. And if I ever do holster a loaded gun, I can take the time to look at the holster and make sure my shirts tucked. That's the thing that freaks me out, shirt getting in the holster. I also love a DA/SA gun for this reason. Put your thumb on the hammer when you reholster. If the hammer moves you're about to shoot your foot.
Click to expand...
Me too.

Many years ago I took 3 defensive handgun classes (~800 rds over 2 or 3 days) with a 1911 that I always carried cocked and locked. I never missed the safety off or on during those drills, it was automatic. We were in direct sunlight, 80s or higher temp all day and what I did find out was that the constant movement and in/out of the holster and sure enough my t-shirts did try to migrate into the holster a few times. That does prove the value of a safety. YMMV
 
Grendizer138 said:
Still waiting to know how people “look a gun into the holster” in the dark.
Click to expand...
If it was a real self-defense shooting, are you really going to take your eyes off the perp to re-holster? Remember you don't want LE rolling up and seeing you with a gun in your hands!
 
whatluck said:
also seems k


in the dark you untuck your shirt then reholster. but like I said, if I ever draw its because im going to shoot. and in that case i have bigger things to worry about.
Click to expand...
If you're reholstering it would likely mean the threats gone and youll have time to do so safely too
 
Len-2A Training said:
If it was a real self-defense shooting, are you really going to take your eyes off the perp to re-holster? Remember you don't want LE rolling up and seeing you with a gun in your hands!
Click to expand...
Definitely not, but that just proves the need to be able to do it without looking, safely - not to carry a gun with a manual safety.
 
Grendizer138 said:
Have you trained to manipulate a safety during stress?

If you insist on using a manual safety, fine - I get it; but extensively train with it and understand there’s a chance you might not disengage it when you really reaaally need to.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have. I competed for years in IDPA and USPSA. No, that isn't as much stress as a gunfight. But it is stress. I never once forgot to operate the safety. I know, you think competitions aren't stressful.

I trained for more than a decade with 1911s, shooting tens of thousands of rounds from the holster. I operate the manual safety without conscious thought -- when I draw the gun, I disengage the safety after the slide clears the holster. It isn't hard to get that point. It just takes commitment.
 
M1911 said:
Yes, I have. I competed for years in IDPA and USPSA. No, that isn't as much stress as a gunfight. But it is stress. I never once forgot to operate the safety. I know, you think competitions aren't stressful.

I trained for more than a decade with 1911s, shooting tens of thousands of rounds from the holster. I operate the manual safety without conscious thought -- when I draw the gun, I disengage the safety after the slide clears the holster. It isn't hard to get that point. It just takes commitment.
Click to expand...
If you’re training that way, cool.

I had a Shield with manual safety that i had about 3,500 rounds through. When doing a mag change in a pistol class I unknowingly swept the safety on. I did a tap-rack and a mag change and another tap-rack before I figured out what happened. It was….revealing.

I sold the gun the next day and bought the non-safety version.
 
On a few occasions I have forgotten to disengage the safety when shooting a match. I'd rather that not happen in a defensive situation. Also, I prefer to establish my strong hand grip and leave it be instead of having to shift a little for the safety.
 
Concur - need is a strong word.
He may believe he has a strong case for external safeties, one that I agreed with when first carrying.
But now that I am more comfortable, I'm fine without them.
If I'm involved in a self defense incident, the gun is going to be far off body by the time the cops get there.
 
pastera said:
Concur - need is a strong word.
He may believe he has a strong case for external safeties, one that I agreed with when first carrying.
But now that I am more comfortable, I'm fine without them.
If I'm involved in a self defense incident, the gun is going to be far off body by the time the cops get there.
Click to expand...
In MA, you'd be charged with illegal storage, count on that!
 
I'm in the No category. Being a left handed shooter an external safety can really suck. Many guns aren't designed to be ambidextrous. I have two handguns with external safeties. My 1911 and Ruger Mark IV. Both have ambi safeties.
 

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