What did you do in the reloading room recently?

[DW357]

Figured id tag you in on this as I just got finished doing a seating depth test for the BRA. I went to the middle of the lower velocity node and loaded up five 5-round groups .010", .020", .030", .040", and .050" off the lands. There looks to be at a pretty wide window between at least .030"-.040" off the lands that shoots very well. I could probably beak this down a little further but with a match scheduled for this weekend im going to go right in the middle at .035" off and run it for now. Ill load up enough for the match as well as 25-30 ill use this week to get some good velocity numbers so I can start gathering some dope. View attachment 586651

Now that’s just silly . The accuracy is insane. Well done

 

[Mudflap621]

I like silly
Its just nice to see it all come together.

 

[akma]

Figured id tag you in on this as I just got finished doing a seating depth test for the BRA. I went to the middle of the lower velocity node and loaded up five 5-round groups .010", .020", .030", .040", and .050" off the lands. There looks to be at a pretty wide window between at least .030"-.040" off the lands that shoots very well. I could probably beak this down a little further but with a match scheduled for this weekend im going to go right in the middle at .035" off and run it for now. Ill load up enough for the match as well as 25-30 ill use this week to get some good velocity numbers so I can start gathering some dope. View attachment 586651

Chasing accuracy can drive you crazy. I was under the impression that you had to be as close to the lands as you could for the best accuracy. I've even seen people putting the bullet into the grooves.
My .308 is .060 off the lands and I was feeling guilty like I was so far off the lands until now.

 

[Mudflap621]

Chasing accuracy can drive you crazy. I was under the impression that you had to be as close to the lands as you could for the best accuracy. I've even seen people putting the bullet into the grooves.
My .308 is .060 off the lands and I was feeling guilty like I was so far off the lands until now.

I think every bullet and barrel will have its sweet spot. Some bullets like little to no jump while others prefer a lot. Your application will dictate which direction you go. Testing and data is good.

 

[RankAmateur]

Figured id tag you in on this as I just got finished doing a seating depth test for the BRA. I went to the middle of the lower velocity node and loaded up five 5-round groups .010", .020", .030", .040", and .050" off the lands. There looks to be at a pretty wide window between at least .030"-.040" off the lands that shoots very well. I could probably beak this down a little further but with a match scheduled for this weekend im going to go right in the middle at .035" off and run it for now. Ill load up enough for the match as well as 25-30 ill use this week to get some good velocity numbers so I can start gathering some dope. View attachment 586651

Thanks. Good results that are really not very equovocal, congrats. Good luck in the match! I'll update results with the .308Win when I find nodes like this. My approach with my 30 BR was the opposite of the seating depth to find an optimal jump, and it followed the guidance/advice of one of the 30BR pioneers R.G. Randy Robinett. His guidance was to fill the case with as much H4198 as it will hold, and seat the bullet 30 thousandths INTO the lands (+30 Jam). The downside is that I've spilled powder in the action a couple of times when a RO calls a cease-fire. The upside is that the rifle routinely shoots in the 1s and 2s at 100 yds. Simple formula, but MAN does it work for that cartridge and rifle.

 

[Mudflap621]

Thanks. Good results that are really not very equovocal, congrats. Good luck in the match! I'll update results with the .308Win when I find nodes like this. My approach with my 30 BR was the opposite of the seating depth to find an optimal jump, and it followed the guidance/advice of one of the 30BR pioneers R.G. Randy Robinett. His guidance was to fill the case with as much H4198 as it will hold, and seat the bullet 30 thousandths INTO the lands (+30 Jam). The downside is that I've spilled powder in the action a couple of times when a RO calls a cease-fire. The upside is that the rifle routinely shoots in the 1s and 2s at 100 yds. Simple formula, but MAN does it work for that cartridge and rifle.

You will definitely see different reloading techniques depending on which discipline your shooting. What works for me might not work for the next guy and vise versa. The great thing about threads like this is we get to share knowledge.

PS: That 30BR hammers and im starting to get a soft spot in my heart for these lil cartridges.

 

[mac1911]

Check out some of Mark Gordons articles about jumping bullets a long ways. It's pretty eye opening and he's gotten pretty extensive testing to prove it. My only concern is if you only have a window of a cpl thousandths id be looking for another seating depth with a wider node. There are some long range guys that have been testing throating their chambers super long just to get these longer jumps and they are noting its greatly reducing throat erosion.

Another thing to note in regards to OCW tests as ive never been able to really decipher any major POI changes at 100 yards. Stretching it out to 200-300 will start to show POI changes a lot better but it can also lead to inaccurate data if ones not proficient at those ranges. If you look at the attached target very hard to see any noticeable POI change even with almost 200FPS change in speed.

I recently started workup on the BRA myself and started with a velocity test just to get some numbers as to what my barrel is capable of. Unfortunately I don't have a Labrador so all groups were shot with the magneto speed attached to barrel so not putting a lot of faith in the groups but it seems consistent so that's good. First group flyer was squeaky clean barrel and was also the super slow speed creating the large SD and ES.

I found two good nodes around 2850-2890 and another at 2925-2950. Ive loaded up a seating depth test in the middle of the lower node from .010" to .050" off the lands in .010" increments to see what it'll do. Although the higher node showed the best group Id rather run in the lower node and conserve the barrel.

I've loaded up a 5 shot string of each seating depth and unless I can get my hands on a Labrador to do testing i'm going to run it without the chronograph on barrel.

Lapua 6BR brass (Once fired to fireform)
Berger 106 hybrid
Varget
CCI 450sView attachment 585958View attachment 585959

Nice but I think the OCW method is to find that Harmonic node where you dont see a large shift in POI , not so much a POI shift from velocity , so your OCW test above gives you almost a 2 grain swing and and still be with in a poi vs poa window that "should" be on target even at range and probably a far less deviation than between the noggin and booger hook?

 

[mac1911]

Chasing accuracy can drive you crazy. I was under the impression that you had to be as close to the lands as you could for the best accuracy. I've even seen people putting the bullet into the grooves.
My .308 is .060 off the lands and I was feeling guilty like I was so far off the lands until now.

I think this is highly dependent of the platform, bullet profile, loading technique ?
some bullets like jump. Some rifles your not going to get to the lands before your run out of bearing surface in the neck.
some rifles are limited mag length loading.
every very good shooter I know does things a bit different but they all same the same thing. "you could probably shrink those groups with more practice"

I dont test loads as much as I used to or would like but I found as few things that helped

Once you have a rifle capable and your skill set follows testing gets a somewhat easier.
Theres no sense in doing a OCW or a Ladder test if you cant hold groups.

Took me a while to get there.

OCW was a a bit of a frustrating element until my rifle/ammo/skills improved some and started to understand what I was looking at.

OCW gets you a window where your variations in powder charge do not have a "large" impact on your POA/POI
Then you can play with seating depth to see if things tighten up. Then your going to run out of a certain lot of powder or bullets and everything will change!

 

[Mudflap621]

Nice but I think the OCW method is to find that Harmonic node where you dont see a large shift in POI , not so much a POI shift from velocity , so your OCW test above gives you almost a 2 grain swing and and still be with in a poi vs poa window that "should" be on target even at range and probably a far less deviation than between the noggin and booger hook?

Yes this is the thought process for the OCW but ive never been able to get repeatable data looking for POI shift.

My inconsistencies with the OCW led me to focusing directly on The numbers for this load workup. The groups weren’t used at all to pick my nodes only SDs.

Through a lot of research I had an a pretty good idea where these two nodes would be just from other peoples data. This also leads me to beleive the OCW test isn’t reliable. There is no way that everyone’s barrels are creating the same harmonics.

Take for example my 31gr and 32gr charge. POI is the same but IMO there is going to be a pretty big difference between loads with SD sub 5 and SD greater than 25.

Just quick calculations for my gun shows a 50fps drop in speed will be a .3 MIL
(1 MOA) change at 1000 yards.

Total round count thus far in this load development has been 52 rounds. Hoping to have some confirmation groups this week to verify.

 

[mac1911]

Yes this is the thought process for the OCW but ive never been able to get repeatable data looking for POI shift.

My inconsistencies with the OCW led me to focusing directly on The numbers for this load workup. The groups weren’t used at all to pick my nodes only SDs.

Through a lot of research I had an a pretty good idea where these two nodes would be just from other peoples data. This also leads me to beleive the OCW test isn’t reliable. There is no way that everyone’s barrels are creating the same harmonics.

Take for example my 31gr and 32gr charge. POI is the same but IMO there is going to be a pretty big difference between loads with SD sub 5 and SD greater than 25.

Just quick calculations for my gun shows a 50fps drop in speed will be a .3 MIL
(1 MOA) change at 1000 yards.

Total round count thus far in this load development has been 52 rounds. Hoping to have some confirmation groups this week to verify.

It can be very overwhelming sometimes.
The fun begins once you hit the bench and the shots will count.
Oh and when you shoot a better score with your not so good reloads.
Fun stuff keep at it

 

[Mudflap621]

It can be very overwhelming sometimes.
The fun begins once you hit the bench and the shots will count.
Oh and when you shoot a better score with your not so good reloads.
Fun stuff keep at it

You are correct and everyone needs to set their own goal and not get too overwhelmed whereas to lose the most important part of it all…ENJOYMENT!

 

[qwik88]

Scored a boat load of brass from a buddy. Shouldn’t need any brass for quite a while

 

[38ExtraSpecial]

Scored a boat load of brass from a buddy. Shouldn’t need any brass for quite a while

Score!

 

[daekken]

Welp, I've finally caved in and bought a progressive press - Dillon 550C. Going to start slow and safe while getting a feel for it compared to my single stage.

 

[jek]

I've finally caved in and bought a progressive press - Dillon 550C

That's the one I've had my eye on if I go progressive. Hard to break away from the turret and fork over the money, though.

 

[daekken]

That's the one I've had my eye on if I go progressive. Hard to break away from the turret and fork over the money, though.

I've been putting it off for probably three years or more. If I had a turret then I might hold off, but I'm rocking a single stage and doing 9mm especially can get slow and tedious.

I finally turned a profit earlier this year on reloading, so I've set myself a new target to pay off, haha. I think I'm $117 or so "in the green" prior to this order.
Then again, the calculations I use round down on savings and up on expenses, etc.

 

[paul73]

That's the one I've had my eye on if I go progressive. Hard to break away from the turret and fork over the money, though.

To me auto advance and case feeder were 2 things to get a 750xl for and I love it. Just did a 100 .223 yesterday, plan to do some .308 later today.

 

[Fritz the Cat]

Anyone looking for brass should ceck out "the brass lass" on MEWE. She occasionally gets odd ball stuff in but also if you post what you are looking for someone may have it there.
There's a few reloading component groups on MEWE where I've found some good stuff.

I want you to join my group on MeWe: MeWe: The best chat & group app with privacy you trust.

 

[Mudflap621]

Welp, I've finally caved in and bought a progressive press - Dillon 550C. Going to start slow and safe while getting a feel for it compared to my single stage.

The 550 is an awesome press and you will love it. Your going in with the right attitude slow and steady to start and you will find that once you get used to the processes it can produce a lot of ammo. My first press was a 550 and many thought I was crazy not starting on a single stage but I have zero regrets.

When I started I would only load one case on the shell holder at a time and then index it through the stations till completion. This let me get a hang of the different stations and really let me focus on what was going on at each position. Once you familiarize yourself with the press and what it feels like then you can start working progressive. A bit thing to pay attention to is how it feels while running. Once you get familiar with it, it will be very easy to feel something isn't right and at this point its good to stop and check things at each station.

Good luck and enjoy!

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

I've been putting it off for probably three years or more. If I had a turret then I might hold off, but I'm rocking a single stage and doing 9mm especially can get slow and tedious.

I finally turned a profit earlier this year on reloading, so I've set myself a new target to pay off, haha. I think I'm $117 or so "in the green" prior to this order.
Then again, the calculations I use round down on savings and up on expenses, etc.

Are you using the same math that my wife uses when she tells me how much saved on shoes because they were on sale? Don’t forget to carry the 1….

 

[daekken]

Are you using the same math that my wife uses when she tells me how much saved on shoes because they were on sale? Don’t forget to carry the 1….

I track components, but also case lube, tumbling media, manuals, calipers, etc. I factor in the cost of lost/dropped primers, etc. If it was purchased for the purpose of reloading, it's logged.

Just about the only thing I don't track is electricity costs for running the tools that utilize it.

For factoring in expenses I round up to the nearest cent, for comparison to market prices for savings I round down; for my own costs per round I round up, etc.

In this way, minus electricity, my savings are hopefully "conservative." And my earlier guess was wrong, I'm $124.82 in the green currently, not including today's purchases.

 

[mac1911]

I track components, but also case lube, tumbling media, manuals, calipers, etc. I factor in the cost of lost/dropped primers, etc. If it was purchased for the purpose of reloading, it's logged.

Just about the only thing I don't track is electricity costs for running the tools that utilize it.

For factoring in expenses I round up to the nearest cent, for comparison to market prices for savings I round down; for my own costs per round I round up, etc.

In this way, minus electricity, my savings are hopefully "conservative." And my earlier guess was wrong, I'm $124.82 in the green currently, not including today's purchases.

WTF
I will make it easy for you , f*** all that logging and data .
You want to factor in your equipment along will component costs and see where you break even/profit
I figured it would take 3 years to “break even” on my equipment investment.
So take your reloading costs and “buy” your own reloads from yourself plus 20%
You will have a small box of cash in your safe for those restocking times.
My jump into reloading was everyrhing I needed for all pistol and rifles and 3 years worth if components for the 4000 rounds a year I was shooting between all the cals.
At the time powder averaged $150/8lbs
5000 primers where a touch over $100
Bullets where around .13 average plus my almost free cast bullets.
Buying my reloads off myself quickly showed I worked off the cost of equipment quickly.

 

[Mudflap621]

I track components, but also case lube, tumbling media, manuals, calipers, etc. I factor in the cost of lost/dropped primers, etc. If it was purchased for the purpose of reloading, it's logged.

Just about the only thing I don't track is electricity costs for running the tools that utilize it.

For factoring in expenses I round up to the nearest cent, for comparison to market prices for savings I round down; for my own costs per round I round up, etc.

In this way, minus electricity, my savings are hopefully "conservative." And my earlier guess was wrong, I'm $124.82 in the green currently, not including today's purchases.

Yeah if I kept track of what I spend on this hobby my wife would find it and cut my ballz off.

 

[Mudflap621]

Just finished loading up 150 round 6bra. Have to hit the range one more time before weekend to zero and verify some dope and she goes to work on Sunday.

 

[slipknot]

Nice Mudflap, are you shooting Sheepdog Saturday? I’ll be there with my dasher.

 

[mac1911]

Just finished loading up 150 round 6bra. Have to hit the range one more time before weekend to zero and verify some dope and she goes to work on Sunday. View attachment 587735

Keep us posted

 

[Mudflap621]

Nice Mudflap, are you shooting Sheepdog Saturday? I’ll be there with my dasher.

Hello unfortunately not, I didn't want to commit to it and run into a problem and not be ready lol. We have a small club match Sunday ill get to see how it runs. Hoping to be at the April match though.

 

[allen-1]

WTF
I will make it easy for you , f*** all that logging and data .
You want to factor in your equipment along will component costs and see where you break even/profit
I figured it would take 3 years to “break even” on my equipment investment.
So take your reloading costs and “buy” your own reloads from yourself plus 20%
You will have a small box of cash in your safe for those restocking times.
My jump into reloading was everyrhing I needed for all pistol and rifles and 3 years worth if components for the 4000 rounds a year I was shooting between all the cals.
At the time powder averaged $150/8lbs
5000 primers where a touch over $100
Bullets where around .13 average plus my almost free cast bullets.
Buying my reloads off myself quickly showed I worked off the cost of equipment quickly.

My wife bought me a press for Christmas of 2016, so I've got a little over five years reloading experience. When I started, I set up Excell spreadsheets tracking component costs so that I could figure out what it was costing me to load a round .vs. what it would cost me to buy the "same" round. It was easy because I was only loading 9mm.

Now I load 9mm, .38spcl, .357mag, .357sig and .45Acp. Three different primers, four different powders, and seven different bullets, (I load a couple types of .38).

Then primer prices went from 32/K to 100/K; powder became difficult to obtain and shipments of it were limited, (you may only buy x) - so hazmat/shipping costs went up per item.

And in the end - I don't care about tracking the costs. It costs what it costs so that I can shoot. I try to buy intelligently, but this isn't about making it pay for itself. It's about having ammo on my shelf when I want to go to the range.

It's as simple as knowing that I'm shooting two divisions in Steel Challenge Saturday that will require a minium of 250 rounds, (5 stages, 5 runs, 5 targets, 2 guns); (so more like 275 rounds); and I don't have to even think about it - the ammo's already loaded and with my gun bag. If I decide to shoot Sunday, I'll grab another ammo can off of the shelf - and I'll fill it back up during the week - loading a hundred or so rounds at a time.

It's a hobby, it's a life-style, it's my sanity - I don't have to cost-justify it.

 

[paul73]

don't care about tracking the costs

costs are the factor, but the end result is the goal. you cannot buy the accuracy your own loads provide, well, at least for the rifle loads. to price something that cannot be bought is not that straight forward.

 

[daekken]

I'm not trying to justify it cost-wise; the first round I started reloading was 7.62x54R followed by 30-06. I got into reloading so I wouldn't be reliant on gunshops to have things like 303 British and 6.5x55 for my Swedish Mauser, etc. since I shoot a lot of milsurps. It was really originally so that I could shoot my Garands without needing to track down special ammo.

The data is just kind of a fun thing to look at, it lets me track how many rounds of each caliber I've loaded and stuff like that, plus it's good reference data for pricing components ("How much did those .312 bullets cost me? ...Let's check the sheet."). It's also helpful for me to track my inventory, I know how much of each projectile / powder I have (approximately) and so on. I also log which vendor so I don't forget, etc.

In the end I just enjoy reloading for its own sake, the data is just a fun side thing.