Where can't I concealed carry in MA?

[Prepper]

I've been gaining experience with guns for a few years but haven't yet ever carried. (I have a Class A LTC.) I now have something that I'm willing to carry (it is small enough to not be annoying), so now I want to make sure I don't get in trouble for carrying someplace where it is illegal (despite what the Constitution says to the contrary.)

So, I'm correct that it is actually illegal to carry on school grounds, whether public or private, grade school or college? My daily routine often takes me through one or two college campuses (I need to drop off a family member there). Is it suddenly illegal while I'm sitting in my car for a few minutes in a college parking lot? What if it is locked up and in the back, is it still illegal?

Now, where I work they forbid "weapons" (which apparently can include other things like little pocket knives). I don't think its a law; it is just their rules, so the most they could do is fire me and make me leave. Which'd be bad, so I wouldn't carry at work.

Stores: A few of them have signs that say no firearms, but that's just a store policy and not a law, right? So, the most they could do is make me leave, and they wouldn't have a reason to know I'm carrying anyway so I might as well carry in such a store. Right? It's much safer than leaving gun in the car at Wal-Mart.

Bars: I bet there's a law here but I don't go to bars. I do go to restaurants that have a bar section -- anything special I need to know here?

And lastly, I like to hike and walk in the woods. Both serious hikes up real mountains as well as pleasant walks through the many woods, national wildlife refuges, conservations lands owned by various entities [town, state], Mass Audubon Society properties and Trustees of Reservations properties. Of all the places to need a gun, you'd think alone in the woods a mile from anyone would be a good place. Although, I have never had any issues in the woods with people and have always felt safe... only dogs have been a potential threat and I have pepper spray for them. BUT, nearly every woods I go to has a sign saying "No hunting and no firearms". The no hunting I can understand. But what's with the no firearms?? If what they really mean is you can't bring your gun into the woods and just start firing at tin cans and rocks, then they should say so, and that I would understand. Is it actually "illegal" to carry a gun on these lands, or is it just a policy? If it is a policy and I violate it and somehow end up in a situation where the police want to check me out, would I be in any kind of legal trouble (other than having to leave the property)? And there's either national parks or national forests (I get those mixed up)... illegal on a federal level apparently?

Thanks for any advice!

 

[Prepper]

One more thing, some of these lands are owned by towns. For example, Westford has a conservation commission and every woods in the whole town says no firearms. So, I think it is the town itself saying no firearms, rather than Mass Audubon Society saying it. Illegal then?

 

[MichaelJ]

Concealed = Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

MGLs ONLY prohibit CCW on school properties (including colleges).

NO MGL wrt bars, restaurants, private property, workplaces, MBTA, state/local parks/woods/etc., municipal buildings.

Some places have security checkpoints and won't let you in with any weapons, but there is no state law about it.

Fed buildings and courthouses (fed/state/muni) each make their own rules.

Indian Reservations are special Fed property and don't usually recognize ANY state issued permits (e.g. illegal to carry on their property without their special permits - which are likely impossible to obtain).

National Parks/Forests - you need to check. IIRC one of these prohibits CCW (illegal) and I"m not sure which one.

You can't be under the influence of alcohol/drugs (even Rx) and CCW. That is a MGL restriction.

HTH

 

[pdm]

Len, I thought there was something about not carrying in a place that sold alcoholic beverages or predominately made its money from the sale thereof?

 

[drgrant]

Len, I thought there was something about not carrying in a place that sold alcoholic beverages or predominately made its money from the sale thereof?

It's BS. There are no such laws in MA... nor is there binding signage
in MA. (eg, stores with signs that say "no firearms", the signs are
legally meaningless. ) The only law in MA for booze and carrying is
you can't be intoxicated and carrying at the same time. FWIW, Most of
the states in new england that allow CCW don't have binding signage or laws
prohibiting carry in places that sell/serve booze. (always check first, though).

Basically the big one is the wide "schools" definition. The way the law
is worded is "on your persoin" so theoretically you could have it locked in the
trunk unloaded. I wouldn't want to be the test case, though.

Len has it covered pretty well, though.

-Mike

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Len forgot one thing - on the surface of the Atlantic Ocean within 500 ft of Logan airport.

 

[pdm]

It's BS. There are no such laws in MA... nor is there binding signage
in MA. (eg, stores with signs that say "no firearms", the signs are
legally meaningless. ) The only law in MA for booze and carrying is
you can't be intoxicated and carrying at the same time. FWIW, Most of
the states in new england that allow CCW don't have binding signage or laws
prohibiting carry in places that sell/serve booze. (always check first, though).

Basically the big one is the wide "schools" definition. The way the law
is worded is "on your persoin" so theoretically you could have it locked in the
trunk unloaded. I wouldn't want to be the test case, though.

Len has it covered pretty well, though.

-Mike

Somehow it stuck in my brain. Probably not a good policy to carry in a bar anyway.

Len forgot one thing - on the surface of the Atlantic Ocean within 500 ft of Logan airport.

OMG green lazer beems!

 

[Len-2A Training]

Len forgot one thing - on the surface of the Atlantic Ocean within 500 ft of Logan airport.

True, but I'm not real conversant in those rules/laws (not sure if it is law or only a MassPort rule), as I'm about as likely to be there as I am to fly out of Logan ever again. [Can you spell NEVER?] I never desire to be within 1000' of Logan Airport for any reason whatsoever.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Somehow it stuck in my brain. Probably not a good policy to carry in a bar anyway.

You get to choose where and when you are comfortable with carrying. A lot better system than having a bunch of restrictive laws (like FL, AZ, etc.).

You can eat in a <name of pub here> fine, but if you want to visit the restroom, frequently you have to walk into/thru the bar to get there. Major problem in places like AZ. NOT a problem in MA or NH.

And just because you are in a bar does not mean you are drinking or getting drunk. I've eaten at the bar a few times in places where the wait for a dining room table was excessive.

 

[greycar]

C90 S61

Section 61. (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of any general or special law to the contrary, as a matter of public safety and security, there is hereby created a security zone bordering the General Edward Lawrence Logan Airport that shall include the area between the mean high water line of said airport and a line measured 500 feet seaward of and parallel to said mean high water line from Wood Island Basin to the easterly end of Jeffries Cove as shown on a plan entitled “Plan of General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport Security Zone” prepared by Massachusetts Port Authority Capital Programs Department, April 2002.

SNIP

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-61.htm

 

[Rob Boudrie]

You can eat in a <name of pub here> fine, but if you want to visit the restroom, frequently you have to walk into/thru the bar to get there. Major problem in places like AZ. NOT a problem in MA or NH.

Actually, you can't eat in the restaurant in AZ if the establishment is licensed to serve alcohol in the food area. This is different from FL where the restriction is on places where the "primary purpose is the sale of alchohol by the drink".

A bill to changes this passed in AZ but was vetoed by gov Napolitano after lobbying by the restaurant industry.

In general, the more recent the CCW law, the more likely it is to have a laundry list of restrictions. Also, "shall issue" states are more likely to have restrictions than "may issue" as they have greater concern about ordinary, rather than connected, people carrying. MI picked up a bunch of restrictions when it went from "may issue" to "shall issue".

 

[daceman63]

Section 61. (a) Notwithstanding the provisions of any general or special law to the contrary, as a matter of public safety and security, there is hereby created a security zone bordering the General Edward Lawrence Logan Airport that shall include the area between the mean high water line of said airport and a line measured 500 feet seaward of and parallel to said mean high water line from Wood Island Basin to the easterly end of Jeffries Cove as shown on a plan entitled “Plan of General Edward Lawrence Logan International Airport Security Zone” prepared by Massachusetts Port Authority Capital Programs Department, April 2002.

SNIP

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-61.htm

Thanks...that's really good for me to know...

 

[Mikey]

This is from the NRA-ILA WRT National Parks and Forests

NATIONAL AND STATE PARKS
Generally, firearms are prohibited in national parks. If you are transporting firearms, you must notify the ranger or gate attendant on your arrival, and your firearm must be rendered inoperable before you enter the park. The National Park Service defines inoperable to mean unloaded, cased, broken down if possible, and out of sight. Individuals in possession of an operable firearm in a national park are subject to arrest. Rules in various state park systems vary, so always inquire first.

NATIONAL FORESTS
National Forests usually follow laws of the state where the forest is located.

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=59

Like said above National Park from what I have seen do not let you carry and you would be in trouble if the wrong people know you were packin'. But its not like we have many parks in New England anyway.

And from what I could see both the White Mt. and Green Mt. National Forests follow state law which means yes you can carry, but look up the state laws for any restrictions such as time of day or while hunting and such.

 

[Mikey]

As far as Mass State Parks, in general carry is okay, but different parks have different rules, but I do know "Target shooting" is NOT permitted in any state park.

Best bet is to keep it concealed and nobody will ever know unless you need to use it, even then if nobody is around then.......

 

[M1911]

Like said above National Park from what I have seen do not let you carry and you would be in trouble if the wrong people know you were packin'. But its not like we have many parks in New England anyway.

Maybe, but Minuteman National Park is right here in Concord. In addition, the Boston Harbor Islands are also, I believe, a National Park.

 

[Mikey]

Maybe, but Minuteman National Park is right here in Concord. In addition, the Boston Harbor Islands are also, I believe, a National Park.

Ya you are right I was thinking more like Acadia and being out in the woods.

 

[ZenShooter]

I know that National Parks are off-limits, at least for the time being, but I seem to remember that National Forests are okay. What I've been wondering lately is what about the other federal site classifications? For example a National Historic Site, National Wetlands Region, etc, etc. Are these all technically National Parks, despite the lack of any signage stating that?

Also, the restriction for schools has an exemption if you can get a letter authorizing carry from the chief of campus security, the principle, or college president. In my work, I consult for higher education institutions, and I have these letters from the security offices of my downtown Boston clients.

 

[Prepper]

I was wondering if a NWR (National Wildlife Refuge) is similar enough to a park that it'd be illegal there. NRW's tend to have lots of restrictions in general... can't do anything there except walk on the cleared trail.

So, Great Brook Farm State Park would be OK? I forget if there's a sign. If there is a sign, does that immediately make it a law (that'd be an arrestable offense)?

Someone mentioned Minuteman National Park; I was just there earlier today. I saw something surprising nearby... the sign at one of the entrances to Estabrook Woods (off of Minuteman St) said no hunting and no discharging of firearms, but didn't say no firearms. At least one place finally got it right.

 

[M1911]

At least one place finally got it right.

Don't bet on that. I suspect that if you are found carrying on Minuteman that you will be arrested and charged.

 

[Prepper]

Don't bet on that. I suspect that if you are found carrying on Minuteman that you will be arrested and charged.

I didn't say Minuteman, I said Estabrook Woods. It is near Minuteman; I was at both places today (and NOT carrying).

 

[depicts]

What does not carrying under the influence of RX drugs mean?

What drugs would specifically prevent someone from carrying concealed?

Does this mean you are high on the drugs, or using them correctly with no adverse effect?

 

[Prepper]

What does not carrying under the influence of RX drugs mean?

I'm going to guess it is vaguely defined. That way, it is easier to accuse someone of being under the influence of a legal drug when they feel the need to do so. Technically, ANY prescription drug has an "influence" on you... e.g. guaifenesin makes my nose run less... that's an influence.

I never take anything more than Advil and Mylanta, and they can't prove I took that either.

 

[Will Brink]

MGLs ONLY prohibit CCW on school properties (including colleges).

Which why they are magnets for a-holes to go shoot up. This one, in particular colleges, makes zero sense. Why on earth can't a legal gun owner CCW on a college campus? It just has no internal logic to it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Look up Charles Whitman on Google and you'll see what motivated that law!

 

[M1911]

Laws aren't logical. Never have been and never will be.

 

[Will Brink]

Look up Charles Whitman on Google and you'll see what motivated that law!

I know who he is, but of course there is (yet again) no logic at all as to why what he did should result in such a law, but you know all that. I didn't know he had anything to do with the odd law regarding CCW on college campus. I had thought no CCW on campus was college policy vs actual law. I assume it's that way for all states? Amazing how so many schools are often in the middle of the worst areas. I was at the University of Bridgwater CT the other day. Lord what a sh*& whole Bridgwater is. College is right in the slum of an area and downtown, which looks like the city time and funding forgot. I could get a CT non res CCW, and still be breaking the law by attending the school CCW.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I listened to this shooting, blow by blow on the radio, where I was working at the time.

It was the impetus for banning all CCW on school property (including colleges). IIRC it was a Fed Law (or I might be confusing it with the 1000' law that was overturned and re-written). At any rate, some states allow CCW on college campuses, MA is NOT one of them (we have a specific MGL that forbids any firearms from any school property including colleges in MA).

Good luck getting the letter from the person in charge of the college in MA (the only exemption other than LE), it's damn near impossible. I once tried it at NU and got a polite "we don't allow it for anyone" letter. I was well known there personally to most admin and that included the President at that time.

 

[drgrant]

I know who he is, but of course there is (yet again) no logic at all as to why what he did should result in such a law, but you know all that. I didn't know he had anything to do with the odd law regarding CCW on college campus. I had thought no CCW on campus was college policy vs actual law. I assume it's that way for all states? Amazing how so many schools are often in the middle of the worst areas. I was at the University of Bridgwater CT the other day. Lord what a sh*& whole Bridgwater is. College is right in the slum of an area and downtown, which looks like the city time and funding forgot. I could get a CT non res CCW, and still be breaking the law by attending the school CCW.

Not every state has binding law against carrying in a school... and I would
imagine that many do not have regulations that cover anything more than a
state/public school. MA's law especially absurd because it covers ANY
school, not just state/public ones.

-Mike

 

[Mikey]

Dumb question.

Does the school law only apply to the schools actual property or also to a school “zone”?

I assume it is just within the property line b/c there are houses and obviously roads that are in “school zones”.