Winter Warrior 2021-2022 Postal Match for Iron Sight Military Rifles

[Martinilover]

Honest question so please do not flame me. I never understood how ARs are allowed into military rifle shoots. To me the flavor of these matches are all about military surplus rifles. I used to like to compete with my k31 and my O3A3 but when the guy next to you shows up with a brand new AR it sort of spoils it in my mind.
If the argument is that the AR is a copy of the M16 why not allow any bolt action as a sit in for your (insert any military rifle here).
Not trying to troll- honestly try to understand this.

 

[mac1911]

Honest question so please do not flame me. I never understood how ARs are allowed into military rifle shoots. To me the flavor of these matches are all about military surplus rifles. I used to like to compete with my k31 and my O3A3 but when the guy next to you shows up with a brand new AR it sort of spoils it in my mind.
If the argument is that the AR is a copy of the M16 why not allow any bolt action as a sit in for your (insert any military rifle here).
Not trying to troll- honestly try to understand this.

I will speak out of line here...... if you have a rifle with iron sights im sure you can play "this" game. Especially if its interesting set up.

I mean really "most" bolt actions are mauser copies , right? Im in the camp if its close to a "mil set up" and your using "iron sights" come play...whoo hoo

Now for actual sanction matches there are always different classes. For example
CMP Games Rifle Matches have different classes
As issued Matches
Springfield 1903/03a3
Vintage = which is just about any bolt action resembling the issued rifled that may have been used somewhere at some time in history ?
Garand = "as issued" Garands in 30-06
Modern Military = basically any semi auto resembling what was issued somewhere at some point
Then theres a "unlimitted class --- I dont know enough about that to say anything but basically if it does not fit the above its ending up here.

NRA service rifle: Im not sure at what point they would say no? I mean ideally you should be able to bring a krag and compete?

 

[mac1911]

Honest question so please do not flame me. I never understood how ARs are allowed into military rifle shoots. To me the flavor of these matches are all about military surplus rifles. I used to like to compete with my k31 and my O3A3 but when the guy next to you shows up with a brand new AR it sort of spoils it in my mind.
If the argument is that the AR is a copy of the M16 why not allow any bolt action as a sit in for your (insert any military rifle here).
Not trying to troll- honestly try to understand this.

for the fun
I have posted better scores with my k31 on average than my a2
my 2 high scores at 200 yards on a SR target are held by M1a and my A2 cmp rifle.
if I used my NM a2 service rifle set up for NRA it that gun would out perform the above....IF I am shooting at my best.

 

[Mountain]

Honest question so please do not flame me. I never understood how ARs are allowed into military rifle shoots. To me the flavor of these matches are all about military surplus rifles. I used to like to compete with my k31 and my O3A3 but when the guy next to you shows up with a brand new AR it sort of spoils it in my mind.
If the argument is that the AR is a copy of the M16 why not allow any bolt action as a sit in for your (insert any military rifle here).
Not trying to troll- honestly try to understand this.

This particular postal match game is really about encouraging two things- shooting iron sight 'service' rifles or close commercial facsimiles thereof; and to promote marksmanship in winter conditions. The focus is on milsurps but that does not exclude anything without a wood stock. Prize is via random drawing one entry per target submitted so long as the entry meets the rules of the match- SR-1 or SR target etc. so nobody cares about the scores here except for the fun of it.

As explained above, regular sanctioned matches have rules that may or may not allow AR's. CMP Modern Military allows AR's but with a very strict weight limit that helps to even the field vs. M1A's. My top official CMP Modern Military scores are within a point or two for both the AR and M1A. CMP Vintage Military is just that- and that list of approved rifles does not even include the Springfield 1903 but you can use a 1917, Krag, K31, etc. Must have been a local club match where AR's were showing up to compete against 03A3's?

I'll say this- once the weather drops down close to 10 degrees F and most definitely at below zero temps, shooting AR's gets 'iffy'. Typical lubes that folks use on their AR's freeze or gum up. RemOil turns to gum. Anyone with an iron sight AR who is willing to do the prep to shoot in such frigid conditions is more than welcome to enter into this postal match.

 

[mac1911]

Next up
Mauser 98k 308 Israeli barrel
Ammunition 135gn fmj 14.2 grains Trailboss

2 cmp M1 garands , no mods
Ammunition Random loose rounds
Will probably find more loose rounds as I clean up more

 

[rscalzo]

Game on! Snow on the ground and/or temp below freezing. If there's a pile of snow somewhere at your range and it's 50 degrees, still OK. Likewise, no snow but 32 it's OK.

Might have to shoot my Remington 513T (22LR) due to a noggin surgery not healing well. Though produced for years thereafter, Uncle Sam issued these in the 40's for training. Perfect trainers for grunts as the triggers F-ing suck!

Learned to shoot in the 60's using Remington 513's issued by the DCM.

Scarbough R&P held their Battle of the Bulge event for years. 100 to 300 yards using period correct WWII rifles. No scopes, mats or anything that would make it more comfortable. It was not weather dependent so you never knew what to expect.

 

[dw617]

Honest question so please do not flame me. I never understood how ARs are allowed into military rifle shoots. To me the flavor of these matches are all about military surplus rifles. I used to like to compete with my k31 and my O3A3 but when the guy next to you shows up with a brand new AR it sort of spoils it in my mind.
If the argument is that the AR is a copy of the M16 why not allow any bolt action as a sit in for your (insert any military rifle here).
Not trying to troll- honestly try to understand this.

Mac and Mountain have explained it pretty well. Just want to add, there is a yuuuge difference between shooting a Colt SP1 and a modern AR-15 service rifle.

 

[Mountain]

OK, time for me to finally post an 'official' target- SR-1C (center section) at 100 yards. This is the International Harvester M1 I recently received from CMP. Slept like crap last night and was a bit groggy this AM, so I grabbed the wrong ammo and only had 7 rounds of Varget + 168 SMK reloads and the last 3 were HXP '77 dog crap ammo:

Shoots pretty good for an out of the box CMP M1, no? I should qualify that a little: I did do the usual match prep trigger job, stock clearance work, etc.; but there's nothing on/in this rifle that did not come from CMP except for the Mobil 1 grease.

Except for the SMK shot at 2:00 that was my bad, all of my reloads and one of the HXP shots were X's. That HXP shot in the 9-ring I'm gonna blame on the HXP. This particular 1977 lot has been crap, but I bought it cheap in the enblocs a couple years back. Eventually I'll go back and try shooting again when I remember to bring the right ammo- maybe can 'clean' the target next time.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I don’t think I can play this year boys. Divorce is coming and I had to preemptively cover my ass and get all my shit out of my name. :/

Sorry to hear about that situation. Hope it goes as smoothly as it can. If you are anywhere near Princeton, MA- join me for a range day sometime. You can help me burn through some 'flyer in every box' Greek surplus.

@45collector - same offer, but Harvard.

 

[Rockrivr1]

OK, time for me to finally post an 'official' target- SR-1C (center section) at 100 yards. This is the International Harvester M1 I recently received from CMP. Slept like crap last night and was a bit groggy this AM, so I grabbed the wrong ammo and only had 7 rounds of Varget + 168 SMK reloads and the last 3 were HXP '77 dog crap ammo:

Shoots pretty good for an out of the box CMP M1, no? I should qualify that a little: I did do the usual match prep trigger job, stock clearance work, etc.; but there's nothing on/in this rifle that did not come from CMP except for the Mobil 1 grease.

Except for the SMK shot at 2:00 that was my bad, all of my reloads and one of the HXP shots were X's. That HXP shot in the 9-ring I'm gonna blame on the HXP. This particular 1977 lot has been crap, but I bought it cheap in the enblocs a couple years back. Eventually I'll go back and try shooting again when I remember to bring the right ammo- maybe can 'clean' the target next time.

That’s some good shooting!!!

 

[mac1911]

Happy New Year
So I have to post when I can actually shoot. Waiting for the conditions set by the rules I would never get out.
As usual with me the weather is dark and wet ,

Mauser 98k 308 brought this out again for fun. Used my trailboss 135gn loads. This load shoots way left vs my “regular” loads . I gave the front sight a tap to the left and im not bothering to do more. I might switch to cast loads and see where those go first.
Rear sight setting is on 650m

Targets are not “correct” its what I had on hand.

The 4 black is my “sighters” the 5th sighter is just out of view at 9 oc. I did my best to try some Kenducky Windage.

85/100

 

[mac1911]

Next : most recent cmp service grade danish return 1942 SA with 1955 HRA barrel. Only thing I did to this was a deep clean, new springs, peened gas cylinder
Trigger needs work

Ammunition : random loose rounds

1st shot was X so I just ran the rest of the shots. Looks like that first shot was a settling shot
65/100/1X
This rifle does group pretty well. I pulled a silver out of my ass with this rifle over the summer.

 

[mac1911]

Last up is a Cmp Service Grade IIRC its a 51 SA . This is boarder line muzzle/throat wear of a field grade . Shoots soso
Nothing done to this rifle , even has the broken op rod spring it came with still in it.
I have a spring kit for this and it will get done soon.

Ammo : random loose rounds

4 sighters at 12oc and 5th was at 9oc
Good enough and let them fly

87/100/1X

 

[Mountain]

Nice group with that Mauser, especially for light loads.

 

[mac1911]

Nice group with that Mauser, especially for light loads.

Yeah I cant be upset with that rifle.
Except the sights. They just suck.
Im pretty sure if that had aperture sights I would be sub 2moa with irons ALL DAY.
Well until my eyes got tired which they do quickly. The last M1 target could be a toss up between rifle and tired eyes plus that black bull is a bit smaller than a SR
Those 3 rifles will get a clean and prep for storage , I pull another 3 for the next round

 

[Mountain]

Yeah I cant be upset with that rifle.
Except the sights. They just suck.
Im pretty sure if that had aperture sights I would be sub 2moa with irons ALL DAY.
Well until my eyes got tired which they do quickly. The last M1 target could be a toss up between rifle and tired eyes plus that black bull is a bit smaller than a SR
Those 3 rifles will get a clean and prep for storage , I pull another 3 for the next round

I never know WTF to expect from my eyes- Forrest Gump box o' chocolates any given day. Only thing I can count on is when I'm working overseas regularly, my vision will be complete dogshit while I am jet lagged. If I come home late on a Friday, a match that next Sunday involves some serious guess work on POA. That one I just shot with the IHC should not have been that great of a target based on lack of sleep and being amped up on 5-6 cups of strong coffee. Go figure.

Getting old for sure can be a bitch but if occasional crappy vision for shooting is my only issue, I'll take that.

 

[cetme24]

Semi auto vickers in 7.62x54. It does well with the wolf military classic 148 gr through a converted Finnish maxim barrel.

 

[cetme24]

This was with my type 99 arisaka using converted 3006 cases and 150 gr sp. it should group a little better once all my cases have been fire formed. 20 degrees today and plenty of fresh powder.

 

[mac1911]

This was with my type 99 arisaka using converted 3006 cases and 150 gr sp. it should group a little better once all my cases have been fire formed. 20 degrees today and plenty of fresh powder.

Nice , I see your a member at hanson. Since im awful at remembering names both real and NES names Im sure we have had to cross paths. Cool stuff

 

[mac1911]

This was with my type 99 arisaka using converted 3006 cases and 150 gr sp. it should group a little better once all my cases have been fire formed. 20 degrees today and plenty of fresh powder.

I cant say my T-99 shot better after fire forming 06 convert brass.
I did find some of my better groups came with H4895 reduced loads. My T-99 are in not so great shape. Bores are ok even the chrome lined ones are showing their age and have “blisters” in the chrome lining. My Arasaka’s are coming out soon.
I have 3 loads to use for WW 21/22
Cast load on the hot side of data
A powder puff “gallery” load
Then a basic run of the mill 150 gn load

 

[Rockrivr1]

Semi auto vickers in 7.62x54. It does well with the wolf military classic 148 gr through a converted Finnish maxim barrel.

Nice!

 

[cetme24]

I did find some of my better groups came with H4895 reduced loads.

If I’m remembering correct I started with 36.5 gr of H4895 and this last load up was 38 gr. I processed 100 rounds of brass. I will probably stay with the 38 gr until I get them all fire formed. I don’t get out to Hanson as much as I like. I think I’ve been a member there since 2010 and this year has been my best year for finding time to go.

 

[Daddy Mac]

19 degrees, bright sun, calm winds. What could go wrong? shoveled a spot for the mat and loaded the Springfield Armory M1A. This target shows that I have nowhere to go but up. Not a bad group, just nowhere near the X ring. I certainly could use more time with this rifle. I was using a six o'clock hold so my elevation was spot on, but the windage needs adjustment. I'll be back after making the necessary sight adjustments and see how it goes. Federal AE 150 gr. 308

 

[Mike 53]

Semi auto vickers in 7.62x54. It does well with the wolf military classic 148 gr through a converted Finnish maxim barrel.

Ohh that IS cool...

 

[JRT]

View: https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/status/1480038879986008064?s=21

 

[Mountain]

View: https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/status/1480038879986008064?s=21

Give those boys some skis or snow shoes!

 

[omfgrub]

View: https://twitter.com/manishindiatv/status/1480038879986008064?s=21

Kind of reminds me of our 2 mile trek in chest high snow (not an exaggeration) dragging our Ahkio tent sled behind us--with gear, supplies, and diesel immersion heater for all 12 of us--during the bivouac portion of Mountain Warfare School in Jericho, VT. Record low temperatures were set during those 2 weeks; so cold that when you opened the door to go outside, the snots in your nose immediately froze with your first breath. We were wearing fat cross-country/downhill skis with seal skins, but that helped f***-all to keep us out from under the snow. Best training I ever had.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Anybody brave enough to face the cold and shoot today? I was thinking about it, but who am I kidding. I'm still sitting in my warm house. lol

 

[Mountain]

Anybody brave enough to face the cold and shoot today? I was thinking about it, but who am I kidding. I'm still sitting in my warm house. lol

I was disappointed I don't get to beat my negative 7F day.

 

[mac1911]

Anybody brave enough to face the cold and shoot today? I was thinking about it, but who am I kidding. I'm still sitting in my warm house. lol

I cant go when the conditions are good for WW -21/22
I can only go when I get the chance
No chance today