Women allowed in the Infantry now.....

Scarecrow,
You said in some regards the women were better than the male soldiers on infantry type missions. In what regards specifically. I do here a lot of non-infantry types that have deployed talk about knocking down doors. I don't understand why so many try to compare what they did to what the infantry does. Every male that went to the recruiter had the same opportunity to go 11 series. If you chose otherwise then that was up to you, but please don't pretend to be something you're not.
 
Army Times today had a story about yet another new APFT overhaul in response to Panetta's directive. I couldn't read the full article, but the intro blurb suggested that the new APFT will have MOS-based standards, rather than a flat Armywide standard with age weights. I'm sure that kind of system would make it easier to determine who can hack a combat-arms MOS, regardless of their gender.
 
Award eligibilityPost WWII As defined by The United States Army Institute of Heraldry:[SUP][5][/SUP][SUP][6][/SUP]
a. There are basically three requirements for award of the CIB. The Soldier must be an Infantryman satisfactorily performing Infantry duties, must be assigned to an Infantry unit during such time as the unit is engaged in active ground combat, and must actively participate in such ground combat.
b. The specific eligibility criteria for the CIB require that:
(1) A Soldier must be an Army Infantry or Special Forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of Colonel or below, or an Army Enlisted Soldier or Warrant Officer with an Infantry or Special Forces MOS, who subsequent to 6 December 1941 has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an Infantry, Ranger or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat. Eligibility for Special Forces personnel in Military Occupational Specialties accrues from 20 December 1989. Retroactive awards for Special Forces personnel are not authorized prior to 20 December 1989.
(2) A recipient must be personally present and under hostile fire while serving in an assigned Infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit actively engaged in ground combat with the enemy. The unit in question can be of any size smaller than brigade.
(3) Personnel with other than an Infantry or Special Forces MOS are not eligible, regardless of the circumstances. The Infantry or Special Forces SSI or MOS does not necessarily have to be the Soldier’s primary specialty, as long as the Soldier has been properly trained in infantry or special forces tactics, possesses the appropriate skill code, and is serving in that specialty when engaged in active ground combat as described above. Commanders are not authorized to make any exceptions to this policy.
(4) Awards will not be made to General Officers or to members of headquarters companies of units larger in size than brigade.
(5) On or after 18 September 2001:
(a) A Soldier must be an Army Infantry or special forces officer (SSI 11 or 18) in the grade of Colonel or below, or an Army Enlisted Soldier or Warrant Officer with an Infantry or Special Forces MOS, who has satisfactorily performed duty while assigned or attached as a member of an infantry, ranger or special forces unit of brigade, regimental or smaller size during any period such unit was engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires.
(b) A Soldier must be personally present and under fire while serving in an assigned Infantry or Special Forces primary duty, in a unit engaged in active ground combat to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Improvised Explosive Device (IEDs), Vehicle-Borne IEDS (VBIEDS) and the like are direct fire weapons. While no fixed, qualifying distance from an explosion of these devices can be established, commanders should consider the entirety of the combat situation when considering award of the CIB.[SUP][7][/SUP]
(c) Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform Special Forces duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit is engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.
(d) Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the Combat Medical Badge (CMB) from 18 September 2001 to the 3 June 2005, will remain qualified for the badge. Upon request any such soldier may be awarded the CIB instead of the CMB. In such instances, the Soldier must submit a request through the chain of command to the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471 for conversion of the CMB to the CIB.
(e) Service members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign military (Infantry and Special Forces equivalents) assigned or attached as a member of a U.S. Army Infantry or Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size may be considered for award of the CIB. All basic requirements as listed above must be met. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.
 
in your defense, you may have heard of something like the following exception and mistakenly thought it applied to you and your fellow medics


(c) Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform Special Forces duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit is engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These Soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.
(d) Those Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D who qualify for award of the Combat Medical Badge (CMB) from 18 September 2001 to the 3 June 2005, will remain qualified for the badge. Upon request any such soldier may be awarded the CIB instead of the CMB. In such instances, the Soldier must submit a request through the chain of command to the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, 200 Stovall Street, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471 for conversion of the CMB to the CIB.
 
They threw 18 females into our infantry company, he same one op is in btw, and it was absolute chaos. We had, no shit, the most non judicial punishment in the history if the gwot. Op will back me up My PL Releived for knock up em, psg relieved for his plt complete disentergrating, sexual harrasment claims willy nilly, female 31bs banging anything and everything in sight. some units may function just fine under those conditions. infantry companies do not. There was bad seeds in both sides of the restrooms, but females in the infantry, is not conducive to good order and discipline. I'm a subject matter expert.
 
They threw 18 females into our infantry company, he same one op is in btw, and it was absolute chaos. We had, no shit, the most non judicial punishment in the history if the gwot. Op will back me up My PL Releived for knock up em, psg relieved for his plt complete disentergrating, sexual harrasment claims willy nilly, female 31bs banging anything and everything in sight. some units may function just fine under those conditions. infantry companies do not. There was bad seeds in both sides of the restrooms, but females in the infantry, is not conducive to good order and discipline. I'm a subject matter expert.

EXACTLY

Ask anyone on that deployment. Guys got in trouble for banging the chicks, but nothing happened to the chicks.

Double standards everywhere.

The MPs are not infantry, not even close. Sure females can do fine manning a gun on a MATV or Humvee or Maxpro or w/e, but throw them on a dismounted patrol at 7200ft above sea level with full plates, assault pack, kit, and then hand them the 240B and see how well that goes.

Our next war may be fought in an area where we do not have FOBs that we can return to every day.

What if a female gets knocked up, doesnt know about it, and her and her unborn child get killed? The ****en hippies back here will have a field day with that! We will be out of that conflict so fast we won't know what happened.

People do not think of these things.
 
EXACTLY

Ask anyone on that deployment. Guys got in trouble for banging the chicks, but nothing happened to the chicks.

Double standards everywhere.

The MPs are not infantry, not even close. Sure females can do fine manning a gun on a MATV or Humvee or Maxpro or w/e, but throw them on a dismounted patrol at 7200ft above sea level with full plates, assault pack, kit, and then hand them the 240B and see how well that goes.

Our next war may be fought in an area where we do not have FOBs that we can return to every day.

What if a female gets knocked up, doesnt know about it, and her and her unborn child get killed? The ****en hippies back here will have a field day with that! We will be out of that conflict so fast we won't know what happened.

People do not think of these things.

Don't worry about the last point. The supreme court determined that up until the six month mark, the baby isn't a person, and therefore isn't entitled to any rights. The hippies can suck on that pipe.
 
EXACTLY

Ask anyone on that deployment. Guys got in trouble for banging the chicks, but nothing happened to the chicks.

Double standards everywhere.

The MPs are not infantry, not even close. Sure females can do fine manning a gun on a MATV or Humvee or Maxpro or w/e, but throw them on a dismounted patrol at 7200ft above sea level with full plates, assault pack, kit, and then hand them the 240B and see how well that goes.

Our next war may be fought in an area where we do not have FOBs that we can return to every day.

What if a female gets knocked up, doesnt know about it, and her and her unborn child get killed? The ****en hippies back here will have a field day with that! We will be out of that conflict so fast we won't know what happened.

People do not think of these things.

OH COME ON, THAT NEVER HAPPENED!! Everybody knows "These particular females did BETTER than most of their male infantry counterparts" [rofl]

Many moons ago, when I first joined army, i was in a co-ed MP Co, and it was insane. We had so many females pregnant, our female commander actually held a formation & yelled at us saying it was affecting unit readiness!

I will agree that in recent years, ive saw several female MP gunners riding in turrets - in iraq - that appeared to be squared away, competent, and respected for it, but those arent 'Infantry' skills by any stretch of the imagination.

I finished up the latter half of my career in a different MOS, and you can read my earlier post regarding females on those deployments. Are they good at some of the already mentioned tasks? yeah, but the day i see a girl capable of things like fighting through an ambush and dragging a wounded soldier from a disabled truck, is the day i start to view them differently.
 
Last edited:
Come to think of it, our parent BN in OIF6 was a MP BN from hood. So when something happened, EO wise, the EO Nco, a female 31b had to come to our little camp from VBC. SHE started banging one of the E7 in our company.

And this is the gospel of the infantry.
 
That's the shit I'm talking about. Most female MPs I've met have dirty mouths than most truck drivers. Yet an 11 series guy says one thing inappropriate around a female and you got an article 15. But nothing will happen to the female for talking like that, generals are to political now a days.
 
That's the shit I'm talking about. Most female MPs I've met have dirty mouths than most truck drivers. Yet an 11 series guy says one thing inappropriate around a female and you got an article 15. But nothing will happen to the female for talking like that, generals are to political now a days.

That's a failure of leadership, not a gender issue.
 
I agree, I'm just REALLY tired of the bull-shit "I was attached to infantry, I was basically an 11B... except the fact that they had to bend over backwards to accomodate my bul-shit" thing. I just remember how much it sucked to work with non-combat arms, every time, without exception. If someone can pass the standards, I dont give a crap if it is a he, she, or it; but, they better do their damn job, or I'll have to do the S-1's job (on top of mine) and kick them out.


I deployed very short manned and placed under a Navy command. When guys started taking leave, we threw Navy cats on some gunner seats. Puffed out chests talking about how they did the same job as us now....... Except for the everything else, including keeping up with weapons maintenance.. It was a joke.
 
There are people here that are saying that they can hack it in non roles like MP's. I was an MP and that is so far from the truth it was a shit show with them. They all bitched didn't want to live in tents this that and the other thing. I was assigned an E2 made her the gunner just like everyone else started as. Bitched the gun was to heavy and tried to leave it behind going to mess or if we were mounted she claimed it was attached so it was secure.

I hated having them in with us. Yes we have HMMWVs but we did a lot of combat support stuff dismounted non of them did well. Untill the satndards are the exact same it will always be an issue.



Funny_Motivational_Posters_05.jpg
 
Last edited:
I was assigned an E2 made her the gunner just like everyone else started as. Bitched the gun was to heavy and tried to leave it behind going to mess or if we were mounted she claimed it was attached so it was secure.

The weapon probably was to heavy.

The fantasy of women in combat MOS's denies the fact that women have 40-50% less upper body muscle mass.

Sure, there are rare exceptions with amazon females. There are also exceptions with females who are highly trained in grappling who can submit much larger opponents (as garandman posted). but that's what BJJ was invented for - so people who were significantly out sized could defeat larger, stronger and less experienced fighters on the ground.
 
As soon as 1 October of this year women are supposed to start trickling in to our battalion. Just had our annual SHARP briefing last week and this was put out. There are not going to be any 11b/11c mos's, but the ladies will be coming into the S shops and the medic sections at hhc.
 
Exactly. This is what the new policy has always been about: NOT "women as infantrymen," but "women in maneuver units below brigade level." There's been plenty of misunderstanding in this thread about that key difference.
 
The weapon probably was to heavy.

The fantasy of women in combat MOS's denies the fact that women have 40-50% less upper body muscle mass.

Sure, there are rare exceptions with amazon females. There are also exceptions with females who are highly trained in grappling who can submit much larger opponents (as garandman posted). but that's what BJJ was invented for - so people who were significantly out sized could defeat larger, stronger and less experienced fighters on the ground.



I wasn't asking her to hump the MK-19 she had the 60
 
I wasn't asking her to hump the MK-19 she had the 60

Right, but a M60 is a lot heavier to a female than it is to a male. 23lbs to a male, more like 50 lbs to a female.

Add a heavy weapon, plus a load of shit that is also twice as heavy for that person and you have a load out that is asinine and takes that person out of the fight due to injury or exhaustion.

only fools assign weapons like that to physically inferior people. fools or people who pretend that females are the same strength.
 
I've seen male 249 gunners praise the lord when contact was initiated by the enemy just so they can shoot their entire combat load. S.A.W., minimum of 1000 rounds of 5.56, body armor/helmet, uniform/boots and 3-5 days worth of shit in an assault pack while climbing mountains isn't for the weak. Forget a M60 or MK48....
 
And up go the pregnecy rate mandatory sexual harrasment classes etc ...But wait no women for selective service how that equal again?
 
Back
Top Bottom