17-year-old arrested in killing of 2 people in Kenosha

maltc said:
Can any of you in the field tell me why Kyle would accept the State’s request to press lower charges as well?
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Because they have to have a legal argument that would preclude the lesser included, such as there wasn't evidence presented of a certain element or that it's not possible such that the jury could acquit of the more serious yet convict of the lesser. It's not a matter of whether the evidence presented in fact proves one way or the other. That's a jury determination.
 
AHM said:
Full hollow metal jacket.


FTFY.


FTFY.

Considering all that @drgrant does for this site,
it's the least I could do for him.


Yeah, no.
slide_9.jpg

If someone spends a week in court charging you with the crime of being divisible by 3,
and then at the last minute tacks on the charge of being divisible by 9,
it changes nothing about the defense.

Assuming you don't want to be, like, convicted of any crimes.


@Picton is picky.
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If P then Q. is the premise
P, therefore Q = True
~P, therefore ~Q = False
~Q, therefore ~P = True
Q, therefore P = False

This is a small truth table on the premise of "if P then Q". This is not really the problem here. The state is trying to introduce evidence of S in the P then Q derivation. As someone stated in the case, the prosecution is hoping that a jury who is not convinced on the greater charge is more inclined to convict on the lesser regardless of the basis of acquitting on the greater and finding guilty on the lesser not being a matter of evidence presented, but simply being a compromise on the jury's part.
 
Picton said:
Very much this.

The jury doesn't get to see the judge scold the prosecutor, but they know why they're being sent out.
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Let’s hope Wisconsin Juries are not as bad as Florida Juries 😲

I remember when this thread or the other thread (whichever one it was) came out I said this kid was an absolute retard for doing what he did. And everybody had thier pitchforks out chasing me around like that paper boy from the 80s looking for his 2 dollars😁. Now, the act of him defending himself is undesputible, he clearly did and take out a few of societies worst. Look at what’s happening today with all this lesser charge BS and whatever tactical decisions his attorneys are making allowing it to happen. This was my fear from day 1, him ruining his life and relying on our justice system.
Let’s say he beats original charges and is found guilty of lesser (murder) charges, his life is screwed. What if he gets a minimum 5 years or even more in the big house? We all know what that means…PP, no career in any kind of public service like Fire or EMT which he clearly likes, and a lifetime of PTSD. We all saw him break down with that panic attack. That was not fake or staged, that is the worst of the worst when it comes to anxiety and panic. He has that shit for Life!

I really wish this kid just went home after cleaning graffiti instead of mixing it up with the idiots. I hope he beats all this shit and can afford what comes after the criminal trial if he’s not guilty.
 
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Hoover said:
She’s definitely cute. Extra points for personality and brains. Not guilty
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How awkward will it be when we have to (hopefully) say Kyle is "Not Guilty"

Now the legal eaglette... I'm sticking with not guilty

1636749529842.jpeg

I'm watching them bicker about what charges to include but it makes no sense...

Is Kyle in trouble or not?
 
namedpipes said:
Is he winning the debate on what charges to include or losing?
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Depends on who you ask......the only people that matter though are the folks on the jury and it doesnt appear we have any insight into that......yet

I'm discouraged by the overt attempts earlier in the week to dox/intimidate the jury.....not a positive event

Based on the video I dont think there should have been any charges period but.....
 
namedpipes said:
How awkward will it be when we have to (hopefully) say Kyle is "Not Guilty"

Now the legal eaglette... I'm sticking with not guilty

View attachment 541855

I'm watching them bicker about what charges to include but it makes no sense...

Is Kyle in trouble or not?
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I’m way behind, they’re arguing on the illegal possession right now. I’m at that point in the Rekieta video.

So far rittenhouses side is winning most motions. The prosecution wants lesser charges given as an option, defense never wants that especially when the prosecution case was so weak. A jury may settle for manslaughter instead of 1st degree murder. As a compromise between jurors.
 
With all these "lesser included charges" being added, easy to see the jurors caving on some of these just to avoid a hung jury and also to feel like maybe the mob won't hunt them down and burn them out if they can just find Kyle guilty of something.
 
SgtHal75 said:
I really wish this kid just went home after cleaning graffiti instead of mixing it up with the idiots. I hope he beats all this shit and can afford what comes after the criminal trial if he’s not guilty.
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If he had seen clearly the risk of him doing what he was doing, it would have been laudable to step up to that risk if he believed in the cause. I think the reality is less flattering, i.e. he was a semi-stupid kid not unlike the way that most decent kids are semi-stupid at that age, and he didn't see the risk. Older people know that Rosenbaums exist, and a lifetime of dealing with the consequences of Murphy's Law teaches you that one of them is more likely to cross paths with you than not on a night like that.

If he gets a hung jury, then maybe a better defense team will get a crack at it, or at least they won't turn down the expert help when seating the jury that Richards and company foolishly eschewed. He's also got a good appeal going if they do convict on anything.

I'm unclear on whether his role in the straw purchase arrangement is a federal crime.
 
jpk said:
I think the video of that night demonstrated beyond a doubt the efficacy of the AR platform wrt CQC

If I had a choice of an AR with std mags or a shotty with 4-8 rnds I'd take the former all day/every day
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I agree with you. I just think it's funny how the media is like "oh the AR-15 is so powerful." A 3 inch mag shotgun slug has over twice the energy at that range.
 
namedpipes said:
Is he winning the debate on what charges to include or losing?
Click to expand...

So we ended up with blurry photos admitted into evidence. I don't know what it's evidence of, but they exist. I've seen better photos of UFO and bigfoot than whatever the prosecution was trying to prove.

The prosecution was able to convince the judge to include provocation as permissible to the jury. They are relying on an extremely fuzzy video that the fat guy was saying was proof that Kyle was pointing his gun at Rosenbaum or at the crowd thereby provoking a response. The judge allowed this.

Adding the element of provocation means that the jury can convict Kyle of lesser charges. In WI they can only pick one charge so rather than just murder they can still convict him of reckless manslaughter and other charges.

The judge did however will give the jury the defenses reading of the gun charge statute which shows that Kyle cannot be convicted for the gun possession charge since there is an exemption in the law that allows 16 and 17 year olds to carry rifles and shotguns although the law does not specify for hunting. That's actually a major win for Kyle.


However I do want to point out that during all of this Kyle's defense team looked like they were sitting on their hands doing nothing. His defense team had the prosecutor on the ropes regarding the provocation element and that would mean getting a conviction would be very very difficult since there was no murder or active shooter situation. However mid way through the colloquy the defense just shut up and stopped objecting which was kid of weird and just let the prosecutor do whatever he wanted.

They barely objected to anything the prosecutor Binger was doing and I have to say after watching the trial that Binger is pure evil. That guy has nothing in his mind except his own personal success at whatever cost.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
So we ended up with blurry photos admitted into evidence. I don't know what it's evidence of, but they exist. I've seen better photos of UFO and bigfoot than whatever the prosecution was trying to prove.

The prosecution was able to convince the judge to include provocation as permissible to the jury. They are relying on an extremely fuzzy video that the fat guy was saying was proof that Kyle was pointing his gun at Rosenbaum or at the crowd thereby provoking a response. The judge allowed this.

Adding the element of provocation means that the jury can convict Kyle of lesser charges. In WI they can only pick one charge so rather than just murder they can still convict him of reckless manslaughter and other charges.

The judge did however will give the jury the defenses reading of the gun charge statute which shows that Kyle cannot be convicted for the gun possession charge since there is an exemption in the law that allows 16 and 17 year olds to carry rifles and shotguns although the law does not specify for hunting. That's actually a major win for Kyle.


However I do want to point out that during all of this Kyle's defense team looked like they were sitting on their hands doing nothing. His defense team had the prosecutor on the ropes regarding the provocation element and that would mean getting a conviction would be very very difficult since there was no murder or active shooter situation. However mid way through the colloquy the defense just shut up and stopped objecting which was kid of weird and just let the prosecutor do whatever he wanted.

They barely objected to anything the prosecutor Binger was doing and I have to say after watching the trial that Binger is pure evil. That guy has nothing in his mind except his own personal success at whatever cost.
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Prosecutors prosecute. It what they do. Its all they do.

As far as the judge's and the defense attorney's behavior, I havent been following except on NES. Kind of sounds like they did a 180 at the 5 yard line though. Maybe they received credible threats?
 
headednorth said:
Prosecutors prosecute. It what they do. Its all they do.

As far as the judge's and the defense attorney's behavior, I havent been following except on NES. Kind of sounds like they did a 180 at the 5 yard line though. Maybe they received credible threats?
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No I've been following the trial and Kyle's defense lawyers seem to bring the ball within 5 yards of the goal and then walk away, all the time. The team wins lots of small arguments but Binger the prosecutor seems to win the big arguments consistently. This has been going on all week. Most of Kyle's best success has been from the prosecutions own witnesses.
 
VetteGirlMA said:
I think the judge wants to give the look of being impartial by allowing the jury to make all the important decisions and that the judge will not accept taking responsibility for a directed verdict.
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I wish I had such optimism.

As I've said previously about the demeanor of the prosecution - cocky and cavalier - that's what we saw with the Donks in the run-up to 2020's election. It meant they KNEW the fix was in. I'm guessing the "fix" - whatever form that took - was sprung on the judge last night.
 
SpaceCritter said:
I wish I had such optimism.

As I've said previously about the demeanor of the prosecution - cocky and cavalier - that's what we saw with the Donks in the run-up to 2020's election. It meant they KNEW the fix was in. I'm guessing the "fix" - whatever form that took - was sprung on the judge last night.
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Would the fixer risk letting a dipshit of a prosecutor in on it though?
 
meh said:
If he had seen clearly the risk of him doing what he was doing, it would have been laudable to step up to that risk if he believed in the cause. I think the reality is less flattering, i.e. he was a semi-stupid kid not unlike the way that most decent kids are semi-stupid at that age, and he didn't see the risk. Older people know that Rosenbaums exist, and a lifetime of dealing with the consequences of Murphy's Law teaches you that one of them is more likely to cross paths with you than not on a night like that.

If he gets a hung jury, then maybe a better defense team will get a crack at it, or at least they won't turn down the expert help when seating the jury that Richards and company foolishly eschewed. He's also got a good appeal going if they do convict on anything.

I'm unclear on whether his role in the straw purchase arrangement is a federal crime.
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Thank God I grew up without the Internet😂😂😂. Before he even went into action he had the Tik Tok “4doorsforwhores” with a slogan of “tryna to be famous” while posing with an AR15. That to me is more the semi stupid but like I said, thank god I didn’t grow up with the Internet 😂
 

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