looking at this chart it seem like the 40 S&W out of a carbine reaches the same velocity and energy as a 10 MM out of a handgun which would make it a marginal hunting round. i have also read that the 10MM only improves in power and velocity somewhat in a rifle barrel; the 357 magnum is much better.
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40 S&W vs 10 mm ballistics in carbine. input please
- Thread starter nordic alien
- Start date
Whiskeywon
NES Member
Ignoring the fact that basically all traditional handgun calibers suck at killing things compared to their rifle caliber alternatives. Answering your question, it largely depends on your choice of ammunition. The issue you're seeing is that a lot of 10mm is loaded softer than the original FBI variant is only mild increased powder charge than 40S&W. If you go with any of the hotter loads of the 10mm it's not even a comparison. Edit to add: You also have to consider a) price of ammunition and b) that the high loads of 40S&W are +P to some other +P+ nonsense. If you're looking at price and going to those types of ammunition the price is going to be much more similar in nature.
If you take the current ammo shortage into consideration (not your question but relevant?) as well as what @Whiskeywon indicates, 10mm all of the way.looking at this chart it seem like the 40 S&W out of a carbine reaches the same velocity and energy as a 10 MM out of a handgun which would make it a marginal hunting round. i have also read that the 10MM only improves in power and velocity somewhat in a rifle barrel; the 357 magnum is much better.
10 mm as well as 40 S&W and everything else including buckshot in defensive ammo is pretty much sold out . i reload for the 10 and the dies will also do 40 cal.
I reload 10mm as well. However, you'll have to tell my local Sig shop they are supposed to be out of 10mm, because they have it....
Large pistol primers are also easier to find and almost reasonably priced on Gunbroker.
since i have an old colt pre 98 ban a2 bought a 16" upper 40 S&W glock mag conversion setup from stern defense. would have to buy a whole new rifle to have a 10mm. $1600 vs. $900 with sights: i can put anything on a preban
How much velocity is picked up in the 16" barrel for the 40/10 call. How much does that gain aid in bullet expansion or penetration?
My thoughts on pistol carbines are more for extending sight radius for a bit more accuracy than ballistic advantage. As much as the hate for 40 is i do like my 4013tsw shoots well, has a nice fat grip.
if you reload you probably can have a wider range of powders to take advantage of the longer barrel?
My thoughts on pistol carbines are more for extending sight radius for a bit more accuracy than ballistic advantage. As much as the hate for 40 is i do like my 4013tsw shoots well, has a nice fat grip.
if you reload you probably can have a wider range of powders to take advantage of the longer barrel?
Use 10mm or 357 Sig with Lehigh Xtreme defender bullets and you can get a whole lot closer to rifle terminal ballistics. .40 with the same bullets isn’t as effective because they need speed.
Read this report/study, it’s very enlightening:
Read this report/study, it’s very enlightening:
Well is the .40 not a 10mm short? i would guess that with proper loading it would be similar the .38 and .357 mag.
.400 Cor-Bon - Wikipedia
.440 Cor-Bon - Wikipedia
.50 AE, .440 Cor-Bon and .44 Magnum
Powders do make a difference and the powders that get the most velocity with 10mm according to my Lyman book, Blue Dot, Accurate #7, Unique... they're not fast burning powders and will get a good jump from a 16 inch barrel. All powders will really, but some more than others. Those that don't now are a lot of the premium defensive handgun ammo because they're all designed for use in handgun barrels 3 to 4 inches and generally they will not increase much over a few inches as the manufacturers want the bullets at a certain velocity.
To my knowledge, nobody makes a defensive 9mm or .40 or 10mm ammo meant to be fired from a 16" barrel.
That said, the 200 grain hollow points for .40/10mm are designed for 10mm velocities and will withstand the higher velocity; I cannot say the same for 180gr bullets. With the increase for 10mm generally being 100 fps more, I do not think it will cause the 200 grain bullet to fall apart like some JHP's do at high velocities. I'd say out to 100 yards, I would expect the 200gr JHP's from a 10mm carbine to preform fine, however I don't expect any 10mm carbine to do better than a 4 inch group at 100 yards.
IMO, of all the semi auto calibers to use in a carbine, 10mm is the best. 9mm not far behind.
looking at this chart it seem like the 40 S&W out of a carbine reaches the same velocity and energy as a 10 MM out of a handgun which would make it a marginal hunting round. i have also read that the 10MM only improves in power and velocity somewhat in a rifle barrel; the 357 magnum is much better.
I question a lot of that.
The listed velocity for both is speculation. Theres some odd sized barrel lengths in there and I doubt that whoever made the graph has access to more than one.
The energy graph shows in favor of 10, as it should be. Its a longer case and has more capacity.
The f.p.s. graphs also don't show a huge increase between the 2, and I was looking at the Fed 180 gr data, because that and 165 are more common for both.
A 165gr in 10mm should list more fps than in 40, especially over a 16" or 18" barrel.
.40's good out of a pocket rocket, but I'll take 10 in a carbine all day long.
I mean, if you want a rifle you can shoulder that fires pistol ammo, that will work fine. You're not going to be blasting 200 grain bullets at 1400 fps, but it's not like a 180 gr going 1150 is useless.
I would rather have a 10mm in a 16 inch carbine tho, more versatile. If I were going to have a .40, I'd prefer it be a 10 inch barrel, that tends to be the sweet spot for PCC velocities.
If you were more informed about the BBTI testing criteria, you'd have read that they way they did the testing was they'd start with an 18 inch barrel, shoot all the ammo they were testing, then cut an inch off and recrown the barrel, repeat, cut another inch and recrown, and keep going until they got down to 2 or 3 inches.
Yea, no
It might have held my interest if they did something like 200 gr or better in .40 or heavier in 10.
Also 10mm in anything under 6" is a waste.
While its great that they took a barrel and cut it down, the out of the box or off the shelf comparison is lacking. Theres more out there for 10 than a colt delta.
It might have held my interest if they did something like 200 gr or better in .40 or heavier in 10.
Also 10mm in anything under 6" is a waste.
While its great that they took a barrel and cut it down, the out of the box or off the shelf comparison is lacking. Theres more out there for 10 than a colt delta.
As someone else said, it’s all about ammo selection. This vid shows exactly what you say won’t happen. At the 3:45 mark they have Underwood, 200gr JHP’s consistently moving at over 1,400 fps. The Buffalo Bore 180’s are pushing more like 1,700 fps. They’re expensive pills (if you can even find them now) but the high-end 10mm can get going pretty quick out of a 16” barrel. I agree with you, if I’m ever going PCC, it’ll be a 10mm.
View: https://youtu.be/p9rQXau7wYQ
Glockster30
NES Member
Yes, enlightening and interesting in that it backs up the old mantra from the 90's and early 2000's that "heavy and slow is the way to go." It was also interesting wrt the performance of copper projectiles and the 5.7 x 28 ammo.
My takeaway was if you want traditional JHP, larger bullets like 45 acp will give you a slight advantage over 9mm. But the solid copper Xtreme defender from Lehigh(Underwood load in the test) will give you huge improvements over any conventional JHP, with light and fast bullets. And the speeds afforded by 357 Sig and 10mm with the Lehigh bullets really shines.
10mm is .40 on steroids so really should beat it in every way other than over penatration or increased range (if you cared about that, doubt you do)...
So 10mm beats .40, durr.. but if you are stuck at .40 general size and could go to .357 sig well that is arguably an upgrade, not necessarily worth the effort but thats the consideration.
So 10mm beats .40, durr.. but if you are stuck at .40 general size and could go to .357 sig well that is arguably an upgrade, not necessarily worth the effort but thats the consideration.
