ANY Shops Actually Confiscating Expired LTCs?

Coda said:
So lets say you are in the renewal process and your current LTC has just expired and your new LTC is just around the corner.

You go in to buy some ammo, they ask to see your LTC that has just expired and you explain that you are in the renewal process. So they confiscate your LTC and you have no LTC until the new one arrives.

Sounds about as reasonable as most the other ridiculous gun laws in MA.
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You hand them the MIRCS reciept and ask if there is any problem accepting the LTC as valid, and only hand over the LTC once they confirm they understand the law correctly.
 
HorizontalHunter said:
The new law:

(g) Upon being presented with an expired, suspended or revoked license, card or permit a licensee shall: (i) immediately report the attempted transaction to the department of criminal justice information services using its electronic firearms registration system , including, but not limited to, all information recorded pursuant to subsection (h); (ii) take possession of such card, permit or license and immediately forward the same to the licensing authority for the city or town where the licensee conducts business; (iii) issue the license, card or permit holder a receipt, in a form provided by the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services, which shall state that the holder’s license, card or permit is expired, suspended or revoked, was taken by the licensee, and forwarded to the licensing authority, and which shall be valid for 90 days for the purpose of providing immunity from prosecution under section 10 of chapter 269; and (iv) notify the license, card or permit holder of their duty to surrender their firearms forthwith to their local licensing authority under section 129D. The licensee shall be immune from civil and criminal liability for good faith compliance with the provisions herein.

Hopefully, they also are aware that expired doesn’t necessarily mean what they might think that it does:

View attachment 985394

(s) Notwithstanding any general or special law to the contrary, an expired license to carry firearms issued under section 131 or an expired firearm identification card issued under section 129B shall remain valid for all lawful purposes if:
(i) the licensee or card holder applied for renewal before the license or card expiration date and shall remain valid until the application for renewal is approved or denied;
(ii) the licensee or card holder is on active duty with the armed forces of the United States on the expiration date of the license or card; provided, that the license or card shall remain valid until the licensee or card holder is released from active duty and for a period of not less than 180 days following their release; provided, however, that, if the licensee or card holder applied for renewal prior to the end of that period, the license or card shall remain valid for all lawful purposes until the application for renewal is approved or denied; or
(iii) the expiration period has not yet exceeded 90 days beyond the stated date of expiration, unless such license to carry or firearm identification card has been revoked or suspended.

Session Law - Acts of 2024 Chapter 135

malegislature.gov malegislature.gov
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Love they throw “90 days” around multiple times as if the state gives a shit about self imposed deadlines. What a joke! You guys are so screwed.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
There are two different expired scenario:

1. You have MIRCS receipt from a renewal applicaiton submitted before expiration. This is an explicit extesion of the license.

2. You have an expired LTC and have not been denied a renewal; become a PP; or had the LTC revoked or suspended for any reason other than failure to file a change of address. In that case, carry/possession is a civil fine only.

#1 is well understood by the police. #2 is not, and even if it is understood, you cannot count on someone in the field accepting your declaration that you meed the listed three requriements. #2 also will not legally enable you to buy a gun or ammo.
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100%

But if a stupid gun shop employee takes your license because it shows expired on its face when in fact you have renewed it creates a problem for you that shouldn’t exist as you are still valid.
 
On the MIRCS Firearms Licensing Portal, you can print out a receipt, if you haven't already done so, if you applied for a renewal before the expiration date of your permit. I just submitted my non-resident renewal and got the receipt. Once my license has expired, assuming I haven't yet received the new one, I'll carry that receipt with me. On the receipt, it states:

*Chapter 284 of the Acts of 2014, sections 36 and 54 respectively, creates an indefinite grace period for FID card and LTC licensees
who submit a renewal application to their licensing authority prior to the expiration of their current license. The current card/license
will remain valid after the expiration date of the card/license until the application for renewal is either approved or denied.


Frank
 
pinefd said:
On the MIRCS Firearms Licensing Portal, you can print out a receipt, if you haven't already done so, if you applied for a renewal before the expiration date of your permit. I just submitted my non-resident renewal and got the receipt. Once my license has expired, assuming I haven't yet received the new one, I'll carry that receipt with me. On the receipt, it states:

*Chapter 284 of the Acts of 2014, sections 36 and 54 respectively, creates an indefinite grace period for FID card and LTC licensees
who submit a renewal application to their licensing authority prior to the expiration of their current license. The current card/license
will remain valid after the expiration date of the card/license until the application for renewal is either approved or denied.


Frank
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So technically not expired. I wanna be there when someone tries to explain this to the tool working the gun counter.
 
alan226 said:
I'm going to guess that a state or federal document still belongs to the issuer
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Even if this is the case - 2 things:

1- That's cute but in MA there's a grace period with renewal. So I wonder how many LTCs these fags have stolen that were "expired" but under renewal.

2- I still dont know what authority a gun shop has to steal someone's property on behalf of the state. This sounds like made up bullshit.
 
drgrant said:
2- I still dont know what authority a gun shop has to steal someone's property on behalf of the state. This sounds like made up bullshit.
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It does but it is in the new law, along with all the other bullchit.

The new law:

(g) Upon being presented with an expired, suspended or revoked license, card or permit a licensee shall: (i) immediately report the attempted transaction to the department of criminal justice information services using its electronic firearms registration system , including, but not limited to, all information recorded pursuant to subsection (h); (ii) take possession of such card, permit or license and immediately forward the same to the licensing authority for the city or town where the licensee conducts business; (iii) issue the license, card or permit holder a receipt, in a form provided by the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services, which shall state that the holder’s license, card or permit is expired, suspended or revoked, was taken by the licensee, and forwarded to the licensing authority, and which shall be valid for 90 days for the purpose of providing immunity from prosecution under section 10 of chapter 269; and (iv) notify the license, card or permit holder of their duty to surrender their firearms forthwith to their local licensing authority under section 129D. The licensee shall be immune from civil and criminal liability for good faith compliance with the provisions herein.
 
drgrant said:
Either a cop or ex cop likely runs the place, and whoever it is plays rubby bums with Lowell PD, not sure about now but years ago LPD would send people there for the "required lowell training course" etc like it was special or something. It sure smelled like a rubby bums deal or a pay to play/reach around scheme. But this is mass and we cant ask too many questions about that kind of thing. *cough* [rofl]
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Nope. 35yo guy from Dracut. He had a small gun shop above a butcher store for about 2 years. Then took out loans and built this place
 
HorizontalHunter said:
It does but it is in the new law, along with all the other bullchit.

The new law:

(g) Upon being presented with an expired, suspended or revoked license, card or permit a licensee shall: (i) immediately report the attempted transaction to the department of criminal justice information services using its electronic firearms registration system , including, but not limited to, all information recorded pursuant to subsection (h); (ii) take possession of such card, permit or license and immediately forward the same to the licensing authority for the city or town where the licensee conducts business; (iii) issue the license, card or permit holder a receipt, in a form provided by the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services, which shall state that the holder’s license, card or permit is expired, suspended or revoked, was taken by the licensee, and forwarded to the licensing authority, and which shall be valid for 90 days for the purpose of providing immunity from prosecution under section 10 of chapter 269; and (iv) notify the license, card or permit holder of their duty to surrender their firearms forthwith to their local licensing authority under section 129D. The licensee shall be immune from civil and criminal liability for good faith compliance with the provisions herein.
Click to expand...

Well, that certainly changes things. So the shop is just being mindlessly obedient.
 
drgrant said:
Even if this is the case - 2 things:

1- That's cute but in MA there's a grace period with renewal. So I wonder how many LTCs these fags have stolen that were "expired" but under renewal.

2- I still dont know what authority a gun shop has to steal someone's property on behalf of the state. This sounds like made up bullshit.
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I think I can answer the second point.

That would be the authority known as NO.
 
Bt74 said:
Who the fuk would let them take it????
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Pretty much anyone who allowed the clerk to handle the LTC.

Do you think a shopkeep is going to allow you to hold the LTC firmly in your hand while (s)he examines it instead of take temporary possession to process the sale?

Once it is in the hands of a clerk who is confiscating it, it will take an act of assault to retrieve it. I'm sure there are plenty of tough guys who say they would never let it be taken, but what are you going to do if your declaration you are not allowing them to take it is ignored? Assault the employee and deal with the possibility of becoming either unsuitable or a PP? Possession is nine tenths of the law.
 
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If I was an MA dealer I would be like "it was in the persons hand when it was initially displayed to me. I'm not going to take it out of their hand because you want me to commit assault (or is it battery?) on a person on your behalf, so go f*** yourslelves" if the state ever asked me why I didnt steal someone's license.

ETA: regardless I guess this is more reason why people need to really keep that receipt with them at all times. (you should anyways, but still)
 
I really feel bad for you folks that live in 2A restricted states.
I read here on NES about the hoops you need to jump through and sadly shake my head.
I don't know how you all keep abreast of the laws concerning your rights.
It would make me BatSh!t crazy trying to keep it all straight on what forms and licenses I needed.
And what guns I could and couldn't buy / own.

Anyone interested in a 45-70 Contender single shot carry pistol?
You can still own single shots right? :cool:
 
I feel like yall hate the shop even tho as far as we know they haven't taken any licenses. They posted a warning about the new law that they are supposed to comply with.
I'm sure they don't want to confiscate anybodies license. Being a gun shop in mass I'm sure is complicated, hard and not fun.
I compare this to liquor stores and bars confiscating ID's. They can legally do that, even if they are wrong. There is an awsome video of a bouncer confiscating a military id.
I would rather them put a paper up asking you to check before getting to the counter than just taking it without warning.
 
drgrant said:
Well, that certainly changes things. So the shop is just being mindlessly obedient.
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Not defending the shops but they're between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't put it past your wonderful CW to do sting ops to set up a shop that DOESN'T confiscate an expired LTC. Gives them an excuse to get a shop's license suspended or pulled. I assume their goal is the fewer places selling evil guns the better.
 
I've heard of liquor store owners getting beat up while trying to confiscate fake i.d.'s. If I was a gunshop owner, I'd take a pass at trying to enforce the new law, regardless of whether or not I had a loaded pistol on my hip. It's just not worth a knuckle sandwich or the extreme negative publicity from the firearms community to me.
 
Blackmore said:
Not defending the shops but they're between a rock and a hard place. I wouldn't put it past your wonderful CW to do sting ops to set up a shop that DOESN'T confiscate an expired LTC. Gives them an excuse to get a shop's license suspended or pulled. I assume their goal is the fewer places selling evil guns the better.
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doubt, they are feckless to the core. Still I get the "Business decision" reasons for it,
though. At least they warned people which is better than the alternative I guess (a confrontation at the counter) .
 
drgrant said:
Well, apparently the authority is dervied from the law as @HorizontalHunter pointed out in post #38.

There's more f***ery being uncovered in this raft of shit that they passed every day, apparently.
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That's just disgusting.

It should be glaringly obvious that confiscating someone's property is "risky" and potentially the clerk is placing their own life at risk.

I wonder if the state is offering life insurance to the shop keep's family if something bad happens?

(Dear Mass - I moved away and this doesn't affect me - that isn't a threat, just a prediction!)
 
When I lived in that $hithole they issued my LTC with a date that was already expired! I had to call the FRB and ask WTF!?, they said it was the PD's officer that puts the date.
So the LT. that took my app, sat on it for 3 months until I call my state reps office, they sent someone down and scooped the stack off his desk and processed it. He was pissed at me so that is why he screwed up the date as well as the spelling of my name.
He is retired now and I think a selectman in Tewksbury, God have mercy on your poor souls in Tewksbury as Mr. Ford is an A--hat.
 
drgrant said:
Even if this is the case - 2 things:

1- That's cute but in MA there's a grace period with renewal. So I wonder how many LTCs these fags have stolen that were "expired" but under renewal.

2- I still dont know what authority a gun shop has to steal someone's property on behalf of the state. This sounds like made up bullshit.
Click to expand...
It IS bullshit, even by the state. The state doesn't even want of get the expired LTC's. I have been licensed since 1988. I must have in my possession 4 or 5 of my expired LTC's, even the ones that were paper with laminate. No one ever asked for them back, and these are spread out over 3 different Northshore towns.

I wonder why they started caring?
 
alan226 said:
It IS bullshit, even by the state. The state doesn't even want of get the expired LTC's. I have been licensed since 1988. I must have in my possession 4 or 5 of my expired LTC's, even the ones that were paper with laminate. No one ever asked for them back, and these are spread out over 3 different Northshore towns.

I wonder why they started caring?
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Well, apparently it is in the new law, as posted above. I find it hard to believe the state is actively doing anything about that portion, though.
 
drgrant said:
Well, apparently it is in the new law, as posted above. I find it hard to believe the state is actively doing anything about that portion, though.
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As I understand it (and was reported to me by 3 different people, weeks apart) some PDs have made it abundantly clear to local gun stores that failure to confiscate an expired LTC/FID will be grounds for immediate revocation of the license of the store.
 
There is probably a gun shop worse than this, which won't warn you they'll take your LTC if it's expired. Still, they are on board with what the state is doing and making it clear to us.
 


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