I usually shop at FSguns, but they don't seem to stock a consistent supply of JHP ammo. They currently have Remington Sabre 124 gr JHP. Rarely I've seen Hornady Critical Defense there, but in light 115 gr loads, which will work well with my 3" Kahr. I'm looking for a heavier load in +P for my G17. The longer barrel with the added pressure of +P will hurl the heavier bullet with more force. In a 4" barrel, Gold Dot 124gr +P has 324 ft-lbs force at 50 yds vs Hornady 115gr 271 ft-lbs. 20% more stopping power. Those numbers will be higher with the extra 1/2 inch of barrel in the G17, but I have to think the disparity between the ligher and heavier load will be greater (F=MxA). Where can I get +P 9mm JHP?
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Anywhere I can get +P 9mm JHP?
- Thread starter Dr. CCW
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xtry51
NES Member
Cabela's in Hartford. Make it a day trip.
I doubt using +P will make any significant difference though since a 9mm round is going clean thru whether it's JHP or not. If you're really concerned about just the numbers get a .45ACP
I carry 9mm, MP9, and I load normal 119 WWB.
I doubt using +P will make any significant difference though since a 9mm round is going clean thru whether it's JHP or not. If you're really concerned about just the numbers get a .45ACP
I carry 9mm, MP9, and I load normal 119 WWB.
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Thanks, I'm in Boston. There's got to be a place closer than Hartford with all those flags on the gun shop map. Really, a JHP 9mm with a center of mass shot through a jacket, sweat shirt and t-shirt is going clean through?
Right. Unless I am mistaken, the JHP stands for Jacketed Hollow Point, which means they are expanding bullets. You might be getting confused with FMJ, which is Full Metal Jacket, a non-expanding bullet, which stands a greater chance of not expanding and "passing through" (known in the hunting world as "penetration"). Hope that helps clear things up for you.
They've been blown out of HST for a long time now. I haven't seen any the past 3 times I've been there.
I don't see much HST anywhere. You used to see it at the gun shows once in awhile but that has gone dry, too.
-Mike
That sucks
Independence Arms
Instructor
Collectors in Stoneham always has Rem Golden Sabre, 9mm +P in stock. I just got some recently.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Thanks!
Twigg
NES Member
xtry51
NES Member
Right. Unless I am mistaken, the JHP stands for Jacketed Hollow Point, which means they are expanding bullets. You might be getting confused with FMJ, which is Full Metal Jacket, a non-expanding bullet, which stands a greater chance of not expanding and "passing through" (known in the hunting world as "penetration"). Hope that helps clear things up for you.
Just because it JHP has more potential to expand does not mean it will, and even if it does there's little guarantee other than hitting the spine that it won't go clean thru. Ask yourself how likely it is you'll place every shot center mast while under duress at a moving target. Also do some research on actual shootings and you'll find far more bullets go clean thru than stop.
If there ever is a situation, I'm going for center of mass with 18 rounds of +P 9mm JHP and not stopping until the threat(s) is/are ended. With any skill and luck, I'll hit COM, and stop the threat(s) with one or more of the 18 without hitting anything important in the background. So, that returns to my original search for the 124gr or heavier +P 9mm. It may not stop the threat if it is an arm shot, but will provide a better chance of doing so with a COM shot than my Remington or Hornady JHPs will.
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You might be surprised at how much muzzle energy and velocity you can get out of a short barrel with the right ammo.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/149560-Speer-Gold-Dot-Short-Barrel-P
I'm a little mystified by your comment that the 9mm is going to penetrate regardless of bullet configuration. 9mm ball is notoriously over penetrative, but certainly other configurations like the old Federal 115gr jacketed hollow point had a good reputation for staying in the target. Some of the 124 gr loads like the Remington Golden Sabre have a good rep as well for not overpentrating.
xtry51
NES Member
I didn't say regardless. I simply said it very common to see actual shooting where JHP goes thru. The OP was asking for +P, which only makes the bullet MORE LIKELY to go thru than standard ammo since there is more energy that needs to be dumped. I see no reason to use +P JHP if your concern is over penetration. In general 9mm has been show to continue thru the target regardless of bullet shape. If you look at the actual real world data you'll find it goes thru way more than half the time.
Does using JHP lessen the chance of over penetration? Yes. Is it a very large percentage change that makes over penetration less than a 50% chance? No. I'm just clarifying that you should always expect your round to go thru and be aware of what is beyond your target.
I can't find it right now, but there was an in depth study by NYPD on FMJ and JHP over penetration and collateral damage. They have settled quite a few lawsuits over bystanders being hit by JHP 9mm that went thru suspects and hit others, sometimes resulting in death.
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I understand the concern for the backdrop, but in the free world, I want the highest amount of energy I can buy coming out of each of my firearms and dumped into my targets. I guess with 9mm JHP, that would be 147gr +P loads, unless someone makes something heavier than 147gr.
In cars, they say "There is no replacement for displacement.". I guess the equivalent in ammunition is that in the same caliber and bullet design, more weight and more power should deliver more of a blow. Makes sense to me.
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Heavier doesn't nessecarily mean more energy. At some point you run out of volume in the case, can't fit any more powder, and velocities suffer. For example the 124 grain +P Federal HST has more muzzle energy than the 147 grain version. (396 foot pounds vs 360, respectively.)
For 9mm, the 124 grain is probably the "sweet spot" if you're looking for maximum energy. I have a preference for Speer Gold Dot personally. (Speer Gold Dot +P 124 grain @ 410 foot pounds of muzzle energy.)
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Nice. I've been trying to make comparisons from what I can find on the ammo manufacturer websites, magazines, and internet sites. It is difficult. The test barrel lengths are not consistent or don't match mine. Velocities are listed, but not energy. Cor-Bon 115gr +P JHP is as good as it gets with energy in .40 S&W and .45 ACP territory, from what I can gather. I just have to hunt down a shop that stocks them.
Check this chart out:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_power_chart.htm
The one shot stop stats are pretty interesting.
I've wasted more time on wound ballistics than I probably should have... and one thing I've discovered that is nearly a universal truth...
Anything worth shooting a bad guy with carries a risk of over-penetration. It's easier to suck it up and live with the possibility than it is trying to pretend you can do anything other than partially mitigate it in a handgun cartridge.
All +P 9mm does is "encourage" the JHP to activate better, particularly if you are launching it out of a shorter barreled handgun. Assuming (and thats a big assumption) the JHP activates, the net penetration MIGHT be slightly less.
-Mike
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You can do your own research, but IMHO energy transfer in common handgun calibers is a myth. You want good permanent wound cavity and adequate penetration. Good loads in 9/40/45 will all meet that metric.
-Mike
One Shot Stop statistics/"Strasbourg Tests" etc, are all junk science created to sell overpriced, shitty ammunition.
Do some more searching and you will find this to be true.
This is a good start, obviously there is much more than this..
http://greent.com/40Page/general/fbitest.htm
The other altnerative is you can forget about all this crap and just concentrate on hitting stuff with your handgun. (whatever it is). It'll matter more in the long run. (although I like having ammo that does what it claims to do. )
-Mike
Ray at Undercover Arms in Hudson said if they don't have what you want, ask and he will order and keep in stock whatever you want.
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