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Best police sidearm

Supermoto said:
weekendracer said:
My point is you said you were damn fast on the draw with a revolver, I would like to know your idea of damn fast is. Why is it when people say they are damn fast, they can never say how fast that is?
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Because in LE firearms there isnt a culture of measuring and tracking performance over time... it's sad. its an uphill battle. Its pass/fail.

I started timing guys when I came on my department... it was a culture shock to them. We've made improvements. Ive seen enough really good shooters to not feel comfortable saying im damn fast. I feel damn average. Lol
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Roland Deschain said:
Because in LE firearms there isnt a culture of measuring and tracking performance over time... it's sad. its an uphill battle. Its pass/fail.

I started timing guys when I came on my department... it was a culture shock to them. We've made improvements. Ive seen enough really good shooters to not feel comfortable saying im damn fast. I feel damn average. Lol
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I figured there might have been some training outside of quals.
 
Supermoto said:
I figured there might have been some training outside of quals.
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Not much... even the little training there is... it usually centers around tactical/patrol procedures and scenario shit instead of fundamentals. Like baseline speed for isolated skills.
 
Roland Deschain said:
Not much... even the little training there is... it usually centers around tactical/patrol procedures and scenario shit instead of fundamentals. Like baseline speed for isolated skills.
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I meant on his own, not thru the dept. If he had answered..I can do sub 1 draws at 7y, I would have thought..sweet, I will interested to hear why revolvers are superior. Instead I'm more interested in finding some Twinkies
 
Supermoto said:
I meant on his own, not thru the dept. If he had answered..I can do sub 1 draws at 7y, I would have thought..sweet, I will interested to hear why revolvers are superior. Instead I'm more interested in finding some Twinkies
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Ahhh... gotcha. Glad to hear im near the supermoto ballpark of excellence. Im about 1.2 from my ALS/SLS work holster @ 7. cheap airsoft practice ftw.
 
Roland Deschain said:
Ahhh... gotcha. Glad to hear im near the supermoto ballpark of excellence. Im about 1.2 from my ALS/SLS work holster @ 7. cheap airsoft practice ftw.
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We'll occasionally (rarely) shoot for time in the afternoons after we've done our quals. I got a 1.1 at 15 yards just once and actually kept the round just barely inside the top left corner of the 5 ring. It happened so fast I actually thought I ND'ed into the dirt or something. Haven't been able to break 1.3 since. This is out of a 6360 holster.
 
ochmude said:
We'll occasionally (rarely) shoot for time in the afternoons after we've done our quals. I got a 1.1 at 15 yards just once and actually kept the round just barely inside the top left corner of the 5 ring. It happened so fast I actually thought I ND'ed into the dirt or something. Haven't been able to break 1.3 since. This is out of a 6360 holster.
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If it wasn't with a single action revolver.... GTFO

[rofl]
 
In 1995, Bob competed in the Bianchi Cup Pistol Tournament (The NRA National Action Shooting Competition) in Columbia, Missouri. Lots of competitors were there, but Bob was the only one who used a Colt .45 single action, with iron sights. The Bianchi Cup was designed for double-action revolvers and semi-automatic pistols – and the events are timed. Though, because he was using a single action, he had to cock and fire his gun for every shot, Bob did well enough in the competition to win money. Many spectators stood there with their mouths open as Bob hit target after target with his cowboy gun. Bob did it for the challenge – and the fun. Bianchi Tournament officials test-fired Bob’s ammunition with his gun to make sure Bob was shooting the required 12 power-factor minimum. Bob was using ammo with power factor of 175. The DVD Bob Munden — The Collector’s Edition includes a bonus feature with footage, with Bob’s commentary, of Bob competing in this tournament!
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Sounds like a nice way of saying Bob lost. ;)
 
Supermoto said:
My point is you said you were damn fast on the draw with a revolver, I would like to know your idea of damn fast is. Why is it when people say they are damn fast, they can never say how fast that is?
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Read the posts again, I never said anything about me personally drawing or shooting a revolver. In a group of 10, including some ex-SF types, I'm normally first to fire. So, that's my scope of comparison, high 350 out of 360 possible shooter consistantly. I'm a fairly good shot subjectively speaking.

I simply made a point that was different than others here. The bandwagon started rolling. I'll have someone time me, they are talking about doing quals again soon. I'll go from the 7 so we can compare e-penis sizes. Geez, no wonder we have such mole hills to overcome.
 
weekendracer said:
Show me someone firing a pistol from a holster as fast as that guy firing a revolver and I'll reconsider my position. I'm talking pro level guys included. More than likely, it's the trigger. My gun has an 8lb trigger, it's just hard to get a good grip, draw, clear the holster, finger on trigger and pull. Still better than the 14lb trigger on our old Barettas.

I'm damn fast out of the holster, but nowhere near where Munden is.
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weekendracer said:
Read the posts again, I never said anything about me personally drawing or shooting a revolver. In a group of 10, including some ex-SF types, I'm normally first to fire. So, that's my scope of comparison, high 350 out of 360 possible shooter consistantly. I'm a fairly good shot subjectively speaking.

I simply made a point that was different than others here. The bandwagon started rolling. I'll have someone time me, they are talking about doing quals again soon. I'll go from the 7 so we can compare e-penis sizes. Geez, no wonder we have such mole hills to overcome.
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OK
 
I don't get how a revolver is faster to draw then a semi?

The way I'm looking at it they should take the same amount of time?

Reloads unless your jerry miculek a semi faster to reload and you have a higher round count . For most people.

Stopping power ? There are more powerful rds then 9mm for semi autos .

The last few pages confused the hell out of me.
 
warwickben said:
I don't get how a revolver is faster to draw then a semi?

The way I'm looking at it they should take the same amount of time?

Reloads unless your jerry miculek a semi faster to reload and you have a higher round count . For most people.

Stopping power ? There are more powerful rds then 9mm for semi autos .

The last few pages confused the hell out of me.
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I was just making an argument against the uber tacticool new guns, seems some took it way too personal.
 
Ok, times are in:
edit: Timed from the beep with buddy holding timer.
.80 at 3 yards, 'field interview' starting stance. Did it 3 times within a hundreth or two.
1.07 at 7 yards, same deal.
Sherpa 'duty' holster, HnK USP 40

To be brutally honest, the shots were a little further left of where I wanted them, but still in the '5' ring. In my defense, it was in the 40's and my busted hands don't work so well in the cold. I think I could drop a couple hundredths easy with some consistent shooting, but I don't have the issue ammo anymore to really shoot this rig consistently.
 
Last edited:
weekendracer said:
Ok, times are in:
edit: Timed from the beep with buddy holding timer.
.80 at 3 yards, 'field interview' starting stance. Did it 3 times within a hundreth or two.
1.07 at 7 yards, same deal.
Sherpa 'duty' holster, HnK USP 40

To be brutally honest, the shots were a little further left of where I wanted them, but still in the '5' ring. In my defense, it was in the 40's and my busted hands don't work so well in the cold. I think I could drop a couple hundredths easy with some consistent shooting, but I don't have the issue ammo anymore to really shoot this rig consistently.
Click to expand...

Those are good draw times. Dry fire is the way to shave time off, with zero ammo expense.
 
weekendracer said:
Ok, times are in:
edit: Timed from the beep with buddy holding timer.
.80 at 3 yards, 'field interview' starting stance. Did it 3 times within a hundreth or two.
1.07 at 7 yards, same deal.
Sherpa 'duty' holster, HnK USP 40

To be brutally honest, the shots were a little further left of where I wanted them, but still in the '5' ring. In my defense, it was in the 40's and my busted hands don't work so well in the cold. I think I could drop a couple hundredths easy with some consistent shooting, but I don't have the issue ammo anymore to really shoot this rig consistently.
Click to expand...


Are those times with you bringing the gun to eye level?
 
Supermoto said:
Are those times with you bringing the gun to eye level?
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the .8 was single hand 'oh shit' shooting we do at the 1.5 yard. (edit: to compare my time vs a legend)
The 1.o7 was two handed, beep, draw fire from 7 yards (yes a little to the left of center).
Pocket Pro II timer. Firearms instructor running the timer.
I do practice dry firing, but that does not help with shot placement, which I was a little lacking.
 
Last edited:
weekendracer said:
the .8 was single hand 'oh shit' shooting we do at the 1.5 yard.
The 1.o7 was two handed, beep, draw fire from 7 yards (yes a little to the left of center).
Pocket Pro II timer. Firearms instructor running the timer.
I do practice dry firing, but that does not help with shot placement, which I was a little lacking.
Click to expand...

Those are very respectable times. nicely done. Dry firing will definitely help with shot placement. I'm assuming field interview is both hands at about chest level?
 
Supermoto said:
Those are very respectable times. nicely done. Dry firing will definitely help with shot placement. I'm assuming field interview is both hands at about chest level?
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I stand with hands more at my 'buckle', one hand on a cross draw CSB, other on my mag case (hover handing a little). For the one handed, I have my 'weak' hand wedged at my 6 o'clock tucked in my belt. I've seen someone shoot themselves in the hand first person, wasn't a fun day at the range.

edit: I've tried to 'trick the system' by having my hand on my gun or just above it, but it slows me down in reality. I've practiced the draw a certain way (the way I stand 90% of the time), I get hung up trying to be cute. At least with this type of holster, maybe with a dedicated IDPA/IPSC holster I'd be faster 'cheating' the draw.
 
Last edited:
weekendracer said:
I stand with hands more at my 'buckle', one hand on a cross draw CSB, other on my mag case (hover handing a little). For the one handed, I have my 'weak' hand wedged at my 6 o'clock tucked in my belt. I've seen someone shoot themselves in the hand first person, wasn't a fun day at the range.

edit: I've tried to 'trick the system' by having my hand on my gun or just above it, but it slows me down in reality. I've practiced the draw a certain way (the way I stand 90% of the time), I get hung up trying to be cute. At least with this type of holster, maybe with a dedicated IDPA/IPSC holster I'd be faster 'cheating' the draw.
Click to expand...

cheating the draw with any holster rarely works, you usually create to much tension. but a 1.07 2 handed from a serpa is great. Hell not shooting yourself with a serpa is always an achievement. Usually each layer of retention add .1a
 
So anyway, maybe the draw time isn't that big of a deal if you consider a .5 second difference between a dedicated speed draw professional and a normal person. I was just trying to push the conversation. I apologize for being a smartass, but my momma couldn't beat out of me either. Boy did she try sometimes.

I'm happy with the HnK P2k/USP series, accurate, carries enough bullets to get you in trouble if you're stupid. I'd be happy with a Glock or one of the SnW's I've shot. They are all quality firearms. More of a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge question, I drive a Ford because I've ravaged all 3 in the worst environment you can find in the US and Ford ('04-'07 SD Diesels) never left me in the desert like the other 2 did. I feel the same about my USP, been through the ringer and still shoots like a champ.
 
I have a Safariland level 3 duty holster that I'm so used to, my draw times probably aren't much less out of a Serpa.

When I hang up my duty belt in my locker, the gun always comes out of the holster even though I could just leave it in. The drawing and holstering at least once a shift had a practical reason behind it--muscle memory.
 
I wouldn't mind sending video to individuals, but I don't want them posted anywhere.

It would be good to get other insights too. Something good comes from all training, even if it's what not to do.
 
When you are all alone, hours from backup, you have to make decisions on how much weight you want to carry. I kept one spare mag for my M4 and 2+1 for my pistol. We didn't get issued those nifty carriers back in the 'day'. Funny, nuggets running around with carriers when us older guys haven't gotten one, doesn't help I'm in a backwater station now. I'm due a new set of armor next year, I'm betting the contract goes up before I get the tacticool carrier.
 

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