Buying a scope. MOA or MIL?

lukewarm_fuzz said:
This is the sort of thinking that drives people into one of the two camps, that somehow mils are tied to meters and minutes are tied to yards.

If you reference everything off your base angular measurement it’s all irrelevant.

Left 2.5 moa is 2.5 moa. Right 4 mils is 4 mils. There’s no need to introduce any other measurements into the process with modern optics.

Obviously if people are talking old school reticle styles without subtensions you can make a better case for picking one over the other.
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This.

It doesn't matter if you think in inches and football fields.

At 500yds the AR i have in my truck right now drops 5.6 mils, or 18".

With mils, thats 56 clicks on a 1/10th mil turret. Dial 5.6 and fire.

With moa i need to multiply 18" by 4, 72 clicks with a 1/4 minute turret. Its just more math, which im trash at on the fly.

This isnt even taking into account that most reticles, all the reticles worth owning afaik, use mils as measurements not minutes.
 
Golddiggie said:
What are "mils" in real world measure units??
At least MOA is easy to know, since it's 1" at 100 yards. I'm sure I'm not alone in being able to process that with minimal thought.
As I mentioned, IF I was new to this, maybe mil would work. At this point in my life, MOA is just easier, and faster, to process. I don't got no TIME to try to switch to the other.
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Who cares? If im zeroing at 100yds, which i still do, because america, i simply fire my group, then i measure in my glass with my reticle "oh, im 1 mil high... i dial down 10 clicks and re-engage." If i want to get super technical i walk down to the stupid paper target and do some quick math there, which im perfectly ok with because im not under pressure on the gun.
 
lukewarm_fuzz said:
This is the sort of thinking that drives people into one of the two camps, that somehow mils are tied to meters and minutes are tied to yards.

If you reference everything off your base angular measurement it’s all irrelevant.

Left 2.5 moa is 2.5 moa. Right 4 mils is 4 mils. There’s no need to introduce any other measurements into the process with modern optics.

Obviously if people are talking old school reticle styles without subtensions you can make a better case for picking one over the other.
Click to expand...
Bingo, if I'm 1 mil low at x yards I come up 1 mil. I'd don't care how many inches or centimeters it is
 
AllaSnackbah said:
This.

It doesn't matter if you think in inches and football fields.

At 500yds the AR i have in my truck right now drops 5.6 mils, or 18".

With mils, thats 56 clicks on a 1/10th mil turret. Dial 5.6 and fire.

With moa i need to multiply 18" by 4, 72 clicks with a 1/4 minute turret. Its just more math, which im trash at on the fly.

This isnt even taking into account that most reticles, all the reticles worth owning afaik, use mils as measurements not minutes.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure your math is wrong on the MOA. 18" at 500yds with a .25 moa turret is 14 clicks. 14.4 to be exact.
 
VTski4x4 said:
Pretty sure your math is wrong on the MOA. 18" at 500yds with a .25 moa turret is 14 clicks. 14.4 to be exact.
Click to expand...
That matches... Since 1" at 100 yards becomes 5" at 500 yards (stupid easy math). With each click being 1/4 MOA (or 1/4" at 100 yards), getting the 18" change won't take all that much. With reality being what it is, that '14.4' would just be either 14 or 15. Or you get close enough with clicks and just do a slight hold over to finish. If you're taking a 500 yard shot, you've either got much better eyes, or a MUCH better optic, than I'd probably have. Also, all things considered, the environment will impact the +/- factor of that shot to make the fractional click irrelevant (no matter what the scope is graduated at).

IMO, use whatever you want/like. Just don't shit on the other, or think that what you use is 'superior' to the other.

This thread is starting to feel like the electric car mandate thread. :o [rofl2]
 
Lol at my math. Ive been in the mil world for like 6 years now, its funny how quickly i forgot minutes and 1/4 minute turrets.
 
NH Phantom said:
If I end up reordering from euro optics I may change to mil. As I have no experience with Moa anyway.
I do understand the concept of both though
Click to expand...

if you plan to shoot PRS then go with MIL because most people will be shooting MIL and you’ll all be speaking the same language for wind and holds
 
They’re both just angular measurements.

I find mil way easier to use with a scope, either for dialing or holding. Using factors of 10 is easier for me to think about quickly, and 8.7 mil with 0.1 mil clicks is easier to think about than 29.8 MOA with 1/4 MOA clicks.

That said, I still and will always think in MOA for group sizes/quantifying precision, or thinking in target sizes.
 
VTski4x4 said:
Reorder it from Eurooptic. They have it in stock. Already discounted, and then you take another 15% off with the code, plus free Red (overnight) shipping.
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So yesterday I called optics planet and said I wanted a refund. They said I needed do wait another 28 days to see if it shows up. I said f*** that and I was going to call PayPal and file a dispute, which I did. I ordered another one from euro planet around noon and I got it today at 10:00 Less than 24 hours and only about $50 bucks more. f*** optic planet
 
drgrant said:
That will happen once RDS pistol mount patterns become standardized..... eg never. 🤣
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They are 'standardized' to a degree already. Just not a SINGLE 'standard' for ALL applications. Some slides are wider so they can accept more choices. Others are slimmer so either need a plate system (for wider RDS') or you direct mount a slimmer/smaller RDS. IIRC, not too long ago it looked like there were more mounting patterns. Pretty sure that's been reduced to just a few. :P
 
AllaSnackbah said:
Who cares? If im zeroing at 100yds, which i still do, because america, i simply fire my group, then i measure in my glass with my reticle "oh, im 1 mil high... i dial down 10 clicks and re-engage." If i want to get super technical i walk down to the stupid paper target and do some quick math there, which im perfectly ok with because im not under pressure on the gun.
Click to expand...
So, if you have to use 10 clicks per MIL, where is the savings over MOA?
 
NH Phantom said:
So yesterday I called optics planet and said I wanted a refund. They said I needed do wait another 28 days to see if it shows up. I said f*** that and I was going to call PayPal and file a dispute, which I did. I ordered another one from euro planet around noon and I got it today at 10:00 Less than 24 hours and only about $50 bucks more. f*** optic planet
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f***stick planet is for cheap pricks that like torturing themselves to save a few bucks.
Golddiggie said:
They are 'standardized' to a degree already. Just not a SINGLE 'standard' for ALL applications. Some slides are wider so they can accept more choices. Others are slimmer so either need a plate system (for wider RDS') or you direct mount a slimmer/smaller RDS. IIRC, not too long ago it looked like there were more mounting patterns. Pretty sure that's been reduced to just a few. :P
Click to expand...

The problem was so faggoty that vendors like holosun started making direct mount devices.

Optics plates are probably the gayest part of the tv set game.
 
drgrant said:
f***stick planet is for cheap pricks that like torturing themselves to save a few bucks.

The problem was so faggoty that vendors like holosun started making direct mount devices.

Optics plates are probably the gayest part of the tv set game.
Click to expand...
I only recall ordering once, maybe twice, from FSP in the past 12+ years. One of those times their "in stock" item didn't ship out for weeks. That was the last time I ordered from them. EuroOptic is a MUCH better place to order from. Even if it appears to be a bit more than FSP, at least you'll get your stuff in short order.

As for the plates system being ghey... Well, I only recall hearing about one (maybe two) companies making slides that are cut for multiple mounting patterns. The plate system does allow for a company to make ALL the options out there available to people. The only other choice, IMO, would be for buyers to specify which RDS (or mounting pattern) they plan to use so it can be machined specific to that. I can't see that going over too well with current production pistols. At least not for a while. Maybe eventually they will.

I did get a local gun smith to machine my CZ TS2 slide for a specific RDS a while back (early 2023 maybe). He did a solid job of it, so no issues there.
 

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