Long Range Scope

G4Y4HK said:
Not trolling. Just a poor who wish I had more disposable money to sink into the gun hobby and my experience is Chinese accessories aren't all that bad. Are the stuff that cost an order of magnitude really an order of magnitude better? Some of you on the watch thread - one of your watches prob is worth many times more than my entire gun collection.
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They are better because a leupold or nightforce can be zeroed, placed in a safe, taken out a year later and they will still be zeroed. They are better in low light and have better adjustments. They are better because the profits stay in an America and don’t go to Chinese communists.
 
granitestater said:
They are better because a leupold or nightforce can be zeroed, placed in a safe, taken out a year later and they will still be zeroed.
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This isn’t all that rare these days even for cheaper optics.

granitestater said:
They are better in low light and have better adjustments. They are better because the profits stay in an America and don’t go to Chinese communists.
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These are important to me, and you’re right. Low light, and actually accurate tracking matters. Which isn’t always consistent in more budget friendly options.
 
G4Y4HK said:
The Chinese aren't some dumb backwater durkas many Americans still think of them to be. Sure they fell behind the world for a couple centuries and as a result got carved out by white folks [and honorary white - Japan] but they've learned their lesson thinking they're smart hot shit. Yeah so they copy and learn and steal patents and ideas and the products reflect upon it. For a $160 scope, the Monstrum Panzer at 10x looked just as sharp as my friend's Leupold. How they pull that off? Scary indeed.
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There's a lot more that goes into selecting a quality optic than how sharp it looks at 100yds on a bright sunny day.

I have an Arken SH6 4-18 i traded some stuff to one of their sales reps for on one of my .22 bolt guns.

When you first pull it out of the box, minus it weighing 100lbs, it kinda feels like a leupy or nightforce. Sharp glass, nice reticle, whats not to like eh? Well when you start using it and turrets fall off, set screws walk out and disappear, it doesnt track at all, it absolutely sucks in anything but good lighting conditions, zero shift, etc etc etc.

Im not saying you have to get 100% american made glass, but a $300 scope is simply not going to perform the way a $3000 scope does. Ever.
 
I tried a tru-glow with a single post topped by an orange triangle once. Loved it. Not sure what magnofication but would buy one if I could find it again.
 
Read the reviews on the SWFA SS 10X42 scope. It's 350.00.
swfa.com

SS 10x42 30mm MQ GEN 2 - Zero Stop

In sub-zero temperatures or searing desert heat (-50 degrees to +130 degrees Fahrenheit, and altitudes of 30,000 feet to depths of 15 feet in salt water) the waterproof, shockproof, fogproof SS performs. Whatever the weapon, from .223 to .50 BMG, the SS handles the recoil. Whatever the target...
swfa.com swfa.com
 
Monstrum is trash. That particular Tract scope is made in Japan with German schott glass. You get what you pay for with glass, any mental gymnastics you perform to convince yourself otherwise is doing yourself a disservice.

Disclosure: not a sniper.
 
If we’re still doing recs I gotta be honest, Arken is an option. There’s perpetually discount codes out there so they’re suuuuper cheap. If you’re shooting casually I don’t think you’ll be unhappy.
 
lukewarm_fuzz said:
If we’re still doing recs I gotta be honest, Arken is an option. There’s perpetually discount codes out there so they’re suuuuper cheap. If you’re shooting casually I don’t think you’ll be unhappy.
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The issue I have with Arken is that it’s one of those brands that show up in big numbers at MA gun shows. To me that usually reeks of cheap crap scopes. Because of that I typically stay away from them.
 
Rockrivr1 said:
The issue I have with Arken is that it’s one of those brands that show up in big numbers at MA gun shows. To me that usually reeks of cheap crap scopes. Because of that I typically stay away from them.
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It’s funny, they’re definitely cheap and have a poor reputation in a lot of circles, if not for poor performance then for the rampant shilling on socials. That said, I’ve seen a ton of them go by and they all seem to work and look good.
 
MC56 said:
Monstrum is trash. That particular Tract scope is made in Japan with German schott glass. You get what you pay for with glass, any mental gymnastics you perform to convince yourself otherwise is doing yourself a disservice.

Disclosure: not a sniper.
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Haha yeah I put my Monstrum Panzer 1-10x FFP on my RADICAL upper and it will be my dedicated long range setup. The radical barrel is capable of 4-5 MOA at best so Monstrum should more than be serviceable. All my other ARs, I prefer to just run a simple dot, not even a magnifier. Long range scopes up to 18 or 25x for bolt guns.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Haha yeah I put my Monstrum Panzer 1-10x FFP on my RADICAL upper and it will be my dedicated long range setup. The radical barrel is capable of 4-5 MOA at best so Monstrum should more than be serviceable. All my other ARs, I prefer to just run a simple dot, not even a magnifier. Long range scopes up to 18 or 25x for bolt guns.
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ok, you're definitely trolling.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Haha yeah I put my Monstrum Panzer 1-10x FFP on my RADICAL upper and it will be my dedicated long range setup. The radical barrel is capable of 4-5 MOA at best so Monstrum should more than be serviceable. All my other ARs, I prefer to just run a simple dot, not even a magnifier. Long range scopes up to 18 or 25x for bolt guns.
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1-10x.
Long range.
4-5MOA.

[rofl] [rofl] [rofl] [rofl]
 
G4Y4HK said:
Yeah that Radical was supposed to be my first Recce build with the Monstrum. A shame the barrel has been so disappointing.
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Is it the barrel, the ammo or you?

It could be the barrel, it happened to @chris_1001

But before saying it was the barrel he shot several different rounds, and had people he knew are good shots (me) also shoot it. That narrowed it down to the barrel.

We shot the gun with the new barrel and same ammo, the different was amazing. He went from like 3 or 4 MOA (I forget now) to sub MOA.
 
Broc Tuah said:
Is it the barrel, the ammo or you?

It could be the barrel, it happened to @chris_1001

But before saying it was the barrel he shot several different rounds, and had people he knew are good shots (me) also shoot it. That narrowed it down to the barrel.

We shot the gun with the new barrel and same ammo, and the different was amazing. Je went from like 3 or 4 MOA (I forget now) to sub MOA.
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Nah cause I have four ARs and I can shoot the other ones down to 1.5 MOA with a 5x flippy magnifier and a ACSS chevron sight. Then again, very well might be cause I suck. I have better triggers on those. The Radical sits on an old M&Pee Sport I lower with a gritty long 8 lb milspec so maybe. Will do a swap and try it out on a better lower and see. The Panzer glass ain't bad but the eye box at 10x is no fun.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Nah cause I have four ARs and I can shoot the other ones down to 1.5 MOA with a 5x flippy magnifier and a ACSS chevron sight. Then again, very well might be cause I suck. I have better triggers on those. The Radical sits on an old M&Pee Sport I lower with a gritty long 8 lb milspec so maybe. Will do a swap and try it out on a better lower and see. The Panzer glass ain't bad but the eye box at 10x is no fun.
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If you can shoot the others better, then seriously consider the barrel

My brand new M5 .308 aero barreled upper was 5-6 moa @100 yards. It was even worse before I swapped the muzzle device for a thread protector (all legal).

Got a new barrel. And it’s now <1 moa.

Almost everyone here had an opinion that it was not the barrel… ugh.

chris_1001

Thread 'Looking for a solid .308 M5 barrel.'

Long story short….

My 16” .308 M5 Areo upper is not shooting well.

I’ve eliminated the obvious, loose scope, ammo and had an accomplished shooter match my results, so not human error.

As such, I’m looking for a replacement barrel for it so that I can use this for some long range 300-600 yard events.

So looking for a really good 18-20” .308 replacement barrel.

What say NES?

TIA.
 
lukewarm_fuzz said:
It’s funny, they’re definitely cheap and have a poor reputation in a lot of circles, if not for poor performance then for the rampant shilling on socials.
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An awful lot of people have great things to say about them. In some ways they’re a threat to the thousand dollar part of the market because there’s a lot in that price range that are better in very minuscule ways if at all. The serious shooters are spending 3-4 times that much and those scopes are a bit better. But that 400 dollar scope is a threat to the 1-2 thousand dollar scopes, in my opinion, where people who are a little more serious about shooting but not quite to the point where they’re willing to spend thousands. That’s the market that Arken is doing well in. And a lot of people that get paid to give certain brands good reviews are financially motivated to try to knock Arken down.

I’ve shot a few of them and my only complaint is the weight. Glass is very good, they track well, good reticles and turrets. And for 400 dollars, they’re unreal.
 
G4Y4HK said:
Not trolling. Just a poor who wish I had more disposable money to sink into the gun hobby and my experience is Chinese accessories aren't all that bad. Are the stuff that cost an order of magnitude really an order of magnitude better? Some of you on the watch thread - one of your watches prob is worth many times more than my entire gun collection.
Click to expand...

This is me 10,000x. Remember some of us aren't double retired with no kids no real bills and 'f*** you' money even when you did have kids.

I remember being laughed at because I couldn't swing a $1,000 for my first pistol or waste hundreds of dollars test firing guns. I had $400 for gun and holster. Thank you @Ferreira's Firearms for a brand new gun for $360 out the door. That Canik is the best money I've spent.

And don't get me wrong, when you guys post your 3rd $3,000 gun, 30+ preban glock mags, loose chest of pre ban 30 and 40 rounders, mp5, staccato, Nighthawk, 8 cases of 5.56 etc etc I'm genuinely happy for each and every one of you. But that just isn't me, not right now.

We are asking about the low end because that's where we reside. My budget AR may not hold groups like yours slinging hand loaded Sierra match kings, but she goes bang every time and minute of steel is doable. I would be willing to bet some of you will spend my entire gun and ammo collection in a single month of range trips, and a light month at that.

Just, kinda remember that people have the same needs but not the same means, so we make what we have work.
 
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Agnotology said:
This is me 10,000x. Remember some of us aren't double retired with no kids no real bills and 'f*** you' money even when you did have kids.

I remember when I first got on this forum being laughed at because I couldn't swing a $1,000 for my first pistol or waste hundreds of dollars test firing guns. I had $400 for gun and holster. Thank you @Ferreira's Firearms for a brand new gun for $360 out the door. That Canik is the best money I've spent.

And don't get me wrong, when you guys post your 3rd $3,000 gun, 30+ preban glock mags, loose chest of pre ban 30 and 40 rounders, mp5, staccato, Nighthawk, 8 cases of 5.56 etc etc I'm genuinely happy for each and every one of you. But that just isn't me, not right now.

We are asking about the low end because that's where we reside. My budget AR may not hold groups like yours slinging hand loaded Sierra match kings, but she goes bang every time and minute of steel is doable. I would be willing to bet some of you will spend my entire gun and ammo collection in a single month of range trips, and a light month at that.

Just, kinda remember that people have the same needs but not the same means, so we make what we have work.
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the gun community is full of gatekeepers, which seems to be the case in any hobby unfortunately
 
LakeTrout said:
An awful lot of people have great things to say about them. In some ways they’re a threat to the thousand dollar part of the market because there’s a lot in that price range that are better in very minuscule ways if at all. The serious shooters are spending 3-4 times that much and those scopes are a bit better. But that 400 dollar scope is a threat to the 1-2 thousand dollar scopes, in my opinion, where people who are a little more serious about shooting but not quite to the point where they’re willing to spend thousands. That’s the market that Arken is doing well in. And a lot of people that get paid to give certain brands good reviews are financially motivated to try to knock Arken down.

I’ve shot a few of them and my only complaint is the weight. Glass is very good, they track well, good reticles and turrets. And for 400 dollars, they’re unreal.
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I get what you're saying about budget, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing within ones means. That said, comparing a $400 Chinese scope to a $1-2k+ scope from Japan, Germany, etc. is just not an apples to apples comparison. I'll likely never be able to afford a Ferarri but I'll never say a Civic is competing with one.
 
MC56 said:
I get what you're saying about budget, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with playing within ones means. That said, comparing a $400 Chinese scope to a $1-2k+ scope from Japan, Germany, etc. is just not an apples to apples comparison. I'll likely never be able to afford a Ferarri but I'll never say a Civic is competing with one.
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I think your logic is a little dated. Assuming that something that’s Chinese can’t compare was true for a long time. But Arken is an example that is pretty damn comparable. There was a time when we also would have said that about Japanese stuff. But we don’t anymore.

We can sit here and say Chinese can’t compare to blah blah blah, but we also have a lot of people that have shot quite a bit with a 400 dollar Arken along with scopes that cost 3 times as much and a lot of us that have experience with both will tell you that the Arken performs comparably to scopes that cost 3 times as much. And probably most of us at our skill levels aren’t going to be better served by the $1,200 scope.

The law of diminishing returns is really amplified in this case.

Also, you picked a civic to compare with a Ferrari which is a realy flawed comparison for someone who wants to argue about apples to apples. How about picking the latest and greatest corvette? Maybe a corvette is not Ferrari level but a lot more relative for a discussion about an overachieving 400 dollar scope to a scope that costs 4X or so as much.
 
LakeTrout said:
I think your logic is a little dated. Assuming that something that’s Chinese can’t compare was true for a long time. But Arken is an example that is pretty damn comparable. There was a time when we also would have said that about Japanese stuff. But we don’t anymore.

We can sit here and say Chinese can’t compare to blah blah blah, but we also have a lot of people that have shot quite a bit with a 400 dollar Arken along with scopes that cost 3 times as much and a lot of us that have experience with both will tell you that the Arken performs comparably to scopes that cost 3 times as much. And probably most of us at our skill levels aren’t going to be better served by the $1,200 scope.

The law of diminishing returns is really amplified in this case.

Also, you picked a civic to compare with a Ferrari which is a realy flawed comparison for someone who wants to argue about apples to apples. How about picking the latest and greatest corvette? Maybe a corvette is not Ferrari level but a lot more relative for a discussion about an overachieving 400 dollar scope to a scope that costs 4X or so as much.
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I'm not a car guy so maybe my analogy of ferrari vs civic wasnt a good one. Regardless, I still stand by my original statement that you get what you pay for when it comes to glass. We can agree to disagree. It's all good.
 
Arken is super hard to discuss and I think that’s at least a small part of why it’s so polarizing. All kinds of good things going on but also sort of that dark side regarding reliability issues and questionable business practices.

I recommend Arken to my friends who might shoot a handful of times a year, or like for rimfire trainers. Perfect for those users IMO.
 

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