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Cape Cod times 10-3-2008

http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081005/NEWS/810050334

1 in 20 Cape residents licensed for firearms
By George Brennan
[email protected]
October 05, 2008 6:00 AM

There are 13,500 people, 5 percent of the total population of the Cape and the Islands, licensed to carry anything from a hunting rifle to a .357 magnum, according to state records.

Tiny Chilmark has the highest percentage of licensed gun owners at 13 percent. And Barnstable may have the highest number of firearms licenses, but its percentage is below the region's average of 5 percent, state records indicate.

Public safety officials are careful to point out that the number of licenses doesn't translate to the number of guns.

"Someone could have a firearm license and not own a gun," said Georgia Critsley, general counsel for the state's Criminal History Systems Board, the state agency that compiles the data.

And that same person with a license could have more than one firearm, Cristley said.

Guns do not have to be registered in Massachusetts, but dealers do have to log the sale of guns with the state. Those records are not public, Cristley said.

Overall, 237,277 of the state's 6.4 million residents are licensed gun owners — just under 4 percent of the population.

That figure has dropped dramatically from the 1.5 million who were licensed before tougher gun laws were approved in the summer of 1998. The reason for that drop depends on who you ask.

James Wallace, director of the Northboro-based Gun Owners Action League, a group that lobbies against further gun restrictions, said the state's gun laws have made it more difficult for people to be lawful gun owners.

For example, he said a misdemeanor conviction for a bar fight as a young adult would preclude that person from getting a license to carry.

"Some who had licenses for 30 to 40 years were disqualified because they punched someone in the nose 30 years ago," Wallace said. "They didn't go after the criminals. They went after us."

John Rosenthal, director of Stop Handgun Violence, a Natick-based group that pushed for the tougher state laws, said the drop in licenses is because firearms licenses were previously issued for life, he said. Licenses are issued for four years and must be renewed.

"The gun lobby says the tough gun laws are so strict that 1.2 million gave up licenses," said Rosenthal, who points out that he has a firearms identification card because he likes to hunt. "That's not true. A lot of those people have died or moved."

Or been caught off guard. Peter Manso, the Truro author who is writing about the murder trial of Christopher McCowen, is accused of having several guns without proper licenses. As part of his defense, Manso is saying that he was never told that his license had expired.

"I have been snared on a series of technicalities, which basically came down to the fact that I, like another three-quarters of a million people, failed to renew a gun permit, which I didn't know needed to be renewed because I was never notified," Manso told the Times Wednesday.

The proof that Massachusetts gun laws are working is in the number of firearms-related deaths — at 3.4 per 100,000 people, Rosenthal said. Only Hawaii has fewer deaths caused by guns, he said.

There are three types of gun licenses issued by the state: Class A, Class B and firearms identification (FID) cards. Each allows the holder the ability to carry or possess only certain types of firearms. There is also a restricted FID card that allows a person to carry mace or pepper spray.

The licenses are issued at the discretion of local chiefs of police, but the law offers little wiggle room, said Falmouth Police Chief Anthony Riello.

"It's a necessary responsibility," said Riello, who serves as president of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association. "Having the local authority is important. You may have information about someone who is trying to get a license. It's important to have that input."

Police departments do criminal history and mental health checks on applicants, Sandwich Police Chief Michael Miller said. Felonies, drug convictions and violent crimes automatically rule some applicants out, but the chiefs also have some discretion to keep others from getting licenses.

"The chief has a right to say someone is unsuitable, 'I'm not going to allow it,'" Miller said. The chief's decision can be appealed in court or to a state review board.

For example, someone who has been taken into protective custody a number of times for public drunkenness may not be a candidate for a license to carry, Miller said. Though it's not a crime to be taken into protective custody, the chief is allowed to consider suitability, he said.

"We've had some challenges, but we've never lost one," Miller said.

While the number of licenses issued by police departments is public, the list of owners is not. As part of the state's public records law, the identity of gun owners is protected.

The exemption "is to prevent individuals with devious motives from ascertaining the identities of those who possess firearms," Massachusetts public records law states.

The idea is to avoid giving criminals a road map to guns they might steal, Wallace said, or to make those who don't own guns a target.

That's an area where Wallace and Rosenthal, who has a firearms identification card, agree.

"I don't know that every member of the public needs to know who has a license, but it's appropriate for law enforcement to know," Rosenthal said.

There is a stigma attached to gun ownership in Massachusetts, Wallace said. Guns, even those used for hunting, must be in

an enclosed case on a public road.

"So you never see the doctor who lives next door or your neighbor the plumber putting a gun in the car to go pheasant hunting," Wallace said. "By law we're forced to hide who we are and that makes things worse."

But Rosenthal said gun violence is down, evidence that the strict laws are working. Things could be better if other states followed suit, he said.

"You need training and a license to drive an automobile that doesn't kill people. Why wouldn't there be reasonable restrictions for firearm ownership?"

Types of licenses

* Class A - Allows holder to possess and carry large capacity firearms, rifles, shotguns, and feeding devices (more than 10-round capacity); allows concealed carry of firearms.

* Class B - Allows holder to carry and possess rifles and shotguns (large capacity or not) and non-large capacity handguns (10 rounds or less); concealed carry not allowed
* Firearms Identification Cards (FID) - Allows holder to carry and possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity
* Restricted FID - Allows holder to carry pepper spray or mace

Source: Sandwich police firearms application process brochure
 
"Guns do not have to be registered in Massachusetts, but dealers do have to log the sale of guns with the state. Those records are not public, Cristley said."

Boy am I silly. I thought guns had to be registered.[rofl]
 
"You need training and a license to drive an automobile that doesn't kill people.

Say what?!?! This man needs a serious reality check. Last I checked there were several times more deaths caused by cars then there were by firearms in this state.
 
"The gun lobby says the tough gun laws are so strict that 1.2 million gave up licenses," said Rosenthal, who points out that he has a firearms identification card because he likes to hunt. "That's not true. A lot of those people have died or moved."



1.2 MILLION people moved!!! what an a**h***!
 
"The chief has a right to say someone is unsuitable, 'I'm not going to allow it,'" Miller said. The chief's decision can be appealed in court or to a state review board.

More MISinformation. The "state review board" has NO jurisdiction in a discretionary denial.
 
If you ask me, all they have really done is pointed out to the other 95% of residents that there are a lot of people who do have guns in Cape Cod. Ergo, they might look into getting their own license. People who are already licensed aren't going to give their license up because of this story. And people who aren't licensed may find that this article perks their curiosity about becoming licensed.
 
"Guns do not have to be registered in Massachusetts, but dealers do have to log the sale of guns with the state. Those records are not public, Cristley said."

Boy am I silly. I thought guns had to be registered.[rofl]

You thought wrong. Transfers of guns have to be registered; guns do not. You can purchase a rifle or shotgun out-of-state and not register it unless and until you bring it into Massachusetts. If you're a resident of another state you can purchase as many guns as you want (or at least as many as you can afford), then more here and bring them all with you without filing a single piece of paper other than your license application.

Ken
 
Riello has been chief in Falmouth for a little more than a year and while the problem of illegal weapons isn't nearly what it was in the city of Pittsfield, where he served as chief, it is real.

...Which, considering that he refused to issue ALP while serving as Police Chief in Pittsfield, should clearly illustrate the man's beliefs.

Captain Wynn, currently serving as Pittsfield's Chief of Police, and privy to the same "illegal guns" statistics as former Chief Riello, has begun to issue such licenses.

One of these men cares more for the safety of his jurisdiction's citizenry than the other, and that is sad.
 
"I'm going to write some stuff about guns" says George Brennan. "Some stuff, yeah, that's what I'll focus on. It'll be great stuff."

"Lemme see - where's my list of sound-bites and anti-gun facts. Cripes - these pages are so worn I can barely read them" says Rosental. "Oh well, I made them up anyway, so I'll just wing it."

"That reporter dropped the phone several times while we were talking, and said he couldn't find a pencil but would just remember what I said" said Wallace. "I suspect this will come out poorly."

"I'm going to chop Brennan's article up into bits and have the mailroom clerk patch them together" says his editor. "We can get two, three, maybe more articles by cutting and pasting it together."

"These articles seem to be random assortments of facts, misinformation, quotes out of context and out-and-out lies" says MaverickNH. "Who would read this crap."

"Wow! This factual evidence will come in handy when we put that big gun-ban bill up next month" said the MA legislater. "These new laws will surely make a difference - and if they don't we'll just make some more laws."
 
Types of licenses

* Class A - Allows holder to possess and carry large capacity firearms, rifles, shotguns, and feeding devices (more than 10-round capacity); allows concealed carry of firearms.
* Class B - Allows holder to carry and possess rifles and shotguns (large capacity or not) and non-large capacity handguns (10 rounds or less); concealed carry not allowed
* Firearms Identification Cards (FID) - Allows holder to carry and possess rifles and shotguns that are not large capacity
* Restricted FID - Allows holder to carry pepper spray or mace

Yipee! Appears my Class A is not restricted to Target/Sporting. Gotta go get me one of those CCW badges to make it official! Thanks Cape Cod Times!!
 
Ohhh..Manso give it a rest already!! Your permits had been revoked....big difference!!
Pre 1998, an FID was good for life and covered the handguns and hicap rifles in the home only.
 
Good for life unless suspended or revoked......[rolleyes]

Except that, effectively, none of them are good for life since the state went back on their word. I don't know much about the Manso case, however, "good for life" is an absolute statement. There's no logical reason a person with a "good for life" gun license should have to go back and renew it.

Of course, we live in MA and logic doesn't apply. It shows a complete lack of honor that those people with good for life FIDs weren't at least grandfathered.
 
Criminals and terrorists know, Rosenthal said, that Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont are among 32 states that require no background checks to purchase a gun.

Wait, so you're able to buy a gun in these states without the 4473? Wow, I'm going to head up there... [rolleyes]

You thought wrong. Transfers of guns have to be registered; guns do not. You can purchase a rifle or shotgun out-of-state and not register it unless and until you bring it into Massachusetts. If you're a resident of another state you can purchase as many guns as you want (or at least as many as you can afford), then more here and bring them all with you without filing a single piece of paper other than your license application.

Ken

They why do you have a box on the FA-10 that says "Registration?" And why must you check that off when you buy a gun at Kittery TP and come home to MA?
 
http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081005/NEWS/810050334

The proof that Massachusetts gun laws are working is in the number of firearms-related deaths — at 3.4 per 100,000 people, Rosenthal said. Only Hawaii has fewer deaths caused by guns, he said.

Oh, this ticks me off. He gets away with it every time and it is a complete fabrication. MA falls in around #20 in the nation on firearms related deaths per 100,000. This guy is a bald faced liar and no-one ever bothers to fact check him. I have sent notes to Jim wallace, and every reporter thus far about it but he still gets away with it.
 
I am thoroughly convinced that it would be easier to convince people that Santa Clause is real than trying to have a factual discussion on firearms ownership.
 
Despite the fear mongering and misdirection by Rosenthal, what about the inherent privacy issues? These are non-public records (although I believe the actual number of licensees is public).
 
Some more info on Rosenthal

Here is what I sent in this time around. It has gotten to be a cut n' paste job these days unfortunately.
By running the below quote from John Rosenthal a reasoned individual can only surmise that you completely failed to fact check his statement. These 2002-2003 stats here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state and before you say it, these numbers are backed up by the DOJ's site http://bjsdata.ojp.usdoj.gov/dataonline/Search/Homicide/State/RunHomOneYearofData.cfm) clearly show he is either outright lying or completely deluded. Also, the FBI's 2004 uniform crime report clearly lists Springfield MA as the 8th deadliest city in the nation. Although MA is no where near the top of the heap of deadly states, it is by no means at the bottom either. Additionally, the % of homicides with guns is far higher here, than the overall death rate would suggest MA to have. Additionally, MA is the most deadly of the states in the NE region, despite the oppressive and punitive guns laws law abiding citizens must endure.

As a result of the complete lack of accountability you held him to, John Rosenthal has yet again been able to cause people to believe that the gun laws in the Commonwealth are somehow making a positive difference when at best, they are making no difference at all.
 
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They why do you have a box on the FA-10 that says "Registration?" And why must you check that off when you buy a gun at Kittery TP and come home to MA?

<Shrug> Why are FA-10's titled "Firearms Sale/Rental/Lease Transaction Form" when they are used for recording Rifles and Shotguns as well as Firearms?

FA-10's record (some) transfers and (some) acquisitions of guns. They do not act as a gun registration system, regardless of what it says on the form. While it's not capturing 100% of the nuances, it's closer to call them a transfer registration form than it is to call them a gun registration form.
 
You think he's carrying when he makes his yearly rounds? It's a dangerous world out there... [laugh]

I think he'd give most of us a run for our money!

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<Shrug> Why are FA-10's titled "Firearms Sale/Rental/Lease Transaction Form" when they are used for recording Rifles and Shotguns as well as Firearms?

FA-10's record (some) transfers and (some) acquisitions of guns. They do not act as a gun registration system, regardless of what it says on the form. While it's not capturing 100% of the nuances, it's closer to call them a transfer registration form than it is to call them a gun registration form.

I'm still seeing a common word in both of those sentences.

You can call it fertilizer, I'll can still call it cow shit.
 
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