Citizen Use of Force, NH Firearms Laws and Developing a Defensive Mindset Seminar

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I don't have a problem with this being run by a LEO - But there are no references.

LenS runs a great course for Mass Gun laws that I highly recommend (I've taken it) and is very much needed in this state. But I would have never taken the course without a pointer to his web site with all of his qualifications.

R1ch said:
Just being curious to see where this seminar was being promoted, I googled the title of this seminar and only came up with a hit here on NES:

Try it yourself:

Citizen Use of Force, NH Firearms Laws and Developing a Practical Defensive Mindset - Google Search

Of course, perhaps Google hasn't yet found the other places where
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That is a good point - no other hits on Google for a seminar of this title. Seems odd to me.
 
First post nails it: respectfully asks for the credentials of those teaching this course, especially since none are listed, and the seminar purports to give considerable legal advice, to wit, "It is intended to teach citizens the laws relative to the legally justified use of force..."

After numerous posts by copcrap, all of which appear to be "surprised" that no one seems to be actively embracing paying money for seminar giving out legal advice with no idea of the "advisor," there are still no cred listed.

The closest we have is "Full-Time NH Certified Police Officers and SWAT Certified Officers," who are, no offense intended, the last people I would turn to for legal interpretation. More bad legal advice has been given out by "Certified Police Officers" than all the barracks-lawyers combined.

And, maybe it's just my delicate sensibilites, but I seem to get more than a whiff of condescending disapproval in our reluctance to just pony up the $25 accept whatever we hear.
 
copcrap said:
It's the people that we protect them from that don't.
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And this is the real problem. The right to remain silent isn't an admission of guilt and not agreeing with a law maker does not a criminal make.

this is the attitude that makes people hate you and hearing this one line made my skin crawl. The line "if you're not guilty, what do you have to hide" is my number one hate. I would enact my right to remain silent on a meter maid because its my right!

Wearing a badge does not make you a good person and worthy of respect. It's your actions, regardless if you wear a uniform or not, that inevitably determine that.

im not going to any class on guns that says I can't carry. You can't say you are Pro 2A and then deny me the right. That's like Christians against Christ!
 
NH gun laws are pretty easy to understand. They're simple, effective, and not overly burdensome (but of course, there's room for improvement, IMHO.)

You don't a seminar to understand NH gun laws.
 
Im not sure why this has been so hostile. I understand that there are bad cops out there but it doesnt mean that we all are. We do not take a stance on gun ownership and whether or not someone should carry or not in this class. Personally I am a huge advocate of gun ownership of any type, for any reason, for any law abiding citizen. We do not tell anyone when they can and cant use deadly force. We are simply outlining the Use of Force Continuum so that a decision to use force on anyone for any reason is justified and well articulated. My intent was never to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. The more I think about it the more I realize that I posted this on your site in error. You guys (gender neutral) obviously already know all this stuff however there are far more who dont. Again we will not be discussing any views on gun control. We just want people to make good decisions about how and when they use force on another. So many people are buying guns these days (and I am happy that they are) however they have no idea how to own them safely. Again, I apologize for disrupting this forum and never meant to upset or offend anyone.
 
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not upset or offended. As I stated, and most gun owners agree, you never try to disarm us. Ever.
And you still haven't answered a single question.
 
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copcrap said:
Im not sure why this has been so hostile. I understand that there are bad cops out there but it doesnt mean that we all are. We do not take a stance on gun ownership and whether or not someone should carry or not in this class. Personally I am a huge advocate of gun ownership of any type, for any reason, for any law abiding citizen. We do not tell anyone when they can and cant use deadly force. We are simply outlining the Use of Force Continuum so that a decision to use force on anyone for any reason is justified and well articulated. My intent was never to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. The more I think about it the more I realize that I posted this on your site in error. You guys (gender neutral) obviously already know all this stuff however there are far more who dont. Again we will not be discussing any views on gun control. We just want people to make good decisions about how and when they use force on another. So many people are buying guns these days (and I am happy that they are) however they have no idea how to own them safely. Again, I apologize for disrupting this forum and never meant to upset or offend anyone.
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Who, exactly, is "we?" What are your credentials to be interpreting NH law?

My experience is many people sign up for courses/seminars/briefings provided by acknowledged, credentialed authorities. I'm sure some might in this case, too, if they had any clue as to who was "teaching" this seminar.

Why won't you tell us this? You've been asked to provide this numerous times, starting with the first post.

Why won't you answer this question?
 
It's one thing to charge attendees to learn the same continuum of force the departments in the state use, defensive mindset, etc., but quite another to charge to teach people "the law" unless a NH-licensed attorney has put that part of the course together (and their name's on it). That could be sailing close to the wind. Perhaps an NH attorney could answer...
 
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LenS said:
copcrap,

Let me try to explain a few things (my opinion only):

- People advertising a service that don't ID who they are, the company name, website, personal name elicit suspicion.
- People who join this forum strictly to advertise and don't pay the $21.00 to become "NES Members" (supporting the forum) are frowned upon.
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Or actually pay the $100 for an Instructor Membership. Then he should introduce himself and list credential as other Instructors have done in the Training sub forum.
 
Credentials or not. Cops dont even know the laws or care about them. Who would be stupid enough to pay a cop to teach you about the laws?
Bring lawyers, thats what you need. LAWYERS.

I can already imagine the class: when someone tries to kill you, asume fetal position, dial 911, and let the po po handle it. Make sure you give us all your guns when we get there. If possible avoid owning guns and questioning the po po. We know better...
 
vipprimo said:
Wearing a badge does not make you a good person and worthy of respect. It's your actions, regardless if you wear a uniform or not, that inevitably determine that.

im not going to any class on guns that says I can't carry. You can't say you are Pro 2A and then deny me the right. That's like Christians against Christ!
Click to expand...

Having worn a uniform for 17 years, I also learned that not every officer I worked with was a good person or worthy of respect. Many were, but there were some that just don't cut it.

Reading his initial post carefully, I can see why they don't want any guns in the classroom. It states that students will act out scenarios and if that is the case, no real guns means no chance of someone getting shot with an "unloaded" gun! Strictly blue guns makes sense if this is what you are doing. Why he didn't explain it when people challenged that here is beyond me.


copcrap said:
Im not sure why this has been so hostile. I understand that there are bad cops out there but it doesnt mean that we all are. We do not take a stance on gun ownership and whether or not someone should carry or not in this class. Personally I am a huge advocate of gun ownership of any type, for any reason, for any law abiding citizen. We do not tell anyone when they can and cant use deadly force. We are simply outlining the Use of Force Continuum so that a decision to use force on anyone for any reason is justified and well articulated. My intent was never to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. The more I think about it the more I realize that I posted this on your site in error. You guys (gender neutral) obviously already know all this stuff however there are far more who dont. Again we will not be discussing any views on gun control. We just want people to make good decisions about how and when they use force on another. So many people are buying guns these days (and I am happy that they are) however they have no idea how to own them safely. Again, I apologize for disrupting this forum and never meant to upset or offend anyone.
Click to expand...

You registered here >1 year ago yet that was your first post. Did you ever read much here? You should have figured out "the lay of the land" here before posting. Any good officer skilled in investigative techniques would have done that before posting an ad here. I've been on ARfcom since that forum began and never saw any posts from this username in the NE Hometown forum where people do ask legal questions wrt the area.

Why the insistence on NOT posting answers to legitimate questions we asked about credentials?


ScottS said:
Who, exactly, is "we?" What are your credentials to be interpreting NH law?

My experience is many people sign up for courses/seminars/briefings provided by acknowledged, credentialed authorities. I'm sure some might in this case, too, if they had any clue as to who was "teaching" this seminar.

Why won't you tell us this? You've been asked to provide this numerous times, starting with the first post.

Why won't you answer this question?
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Precisely. When I first read the ad, it interested me (as NH is my planned destination for escaping MA eventually). I went looking to find out who/what outfit is running this training and found nothing. That raised my suspicions that perhaps it's not worth the trip, cost and time.


falcon123 said:
Copcrap, I don't see how you can teach anything when you don't listen.
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Yes, being a good instructor (and good investigative PO) requires good listening skills. Sorry, but I fail to see that here. We're not telling you to go away, we are asking what credentials you (or the rest of your team) have to put on such a presentation. Is that really unreasonable to ask?


Buggin said:
According to his blog, he's a lieutenant at the Jaffrey PD
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Why do we need to do the investigating to get an answer?

As others stated, even the bio on the PD website gives me no clue as to qualifications to teach this course.

As a Reserve PO, I worked for a department with ~25 sworn FT POs, over about 2 retirement cycles. Of all the officers that I worked with and even the current ones today, there is nobody there then or now that I would rely on for MA gun law information. In fact numerous times when the current chief has seen me, he's asked me about MA gun law! There was one officer when I started that really knew guns (but not gun law) . . . he was also the department armorer and an FFL (that was >30 years ago) and even today there are a few "gun guys" on the department, but they aren't gun law experts. None of my MA gun law knowledge was learned from the police academy or working as an officer, I started learning about the law before joining the police department. So even massive LE credentials don't mean much to me (or most here) wrt knowledge about gun laws . . . even in a state like NH where the laws are minimal in this area. So, tell us who and why these people teaching this course should be considered "experts" in the subject matter?
 
JWPaolilliJr said:
Looking back at the original posting, it appears that he pulled his post.
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So the answer to "put up or shut up" in this case seems to be "shut up". I'm guessing he's gone off to peddle his class to people who don't ask any questions.

Copcrap, here's a free clue: We don't know you. Why should we have blind faith that what your class has to offer is going to be valuable to us? You don't know us. You don't know what kind of training we might want or need. By not giving us any information to judge that for ourselves, you have written us off before you even got started.
 
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