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CMP M1 Carbines Coming!
- Thread starter FPrice
- Start date
Yes, but you'd need at least a Class B LTC to purchase and own the mags (although I'm sure someone must manufacture 5-10 round mags for it).
Edit to add... under MA law, it would be illegal to add features to it that would classify it as an "assault rifle".
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First look at the hi-cap list (I posted URL within the past week or so).
If it's not on there, my "guess" would be NO!
M1 Carbines were sold to civilian populations with hi-cap mags (which is the litmus test) and thus would require a LTC-B minimum.
Iver Johnson M-1 carbine is listed, but no others.
I know it's probably been covered before, but if it's not on the list (by name), then why the LTC and not FID?
http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/chsb/firearms/largecap_2002.pdf
Doesn't “Readily Modifiable to Accept” and "direct control" mean having possession of both a semi-automatic rifle and possession of a "large capacity feeding device"?
LN,
I'm pretty sure I know WHY only the Iver Johnson was listed. GCAB only listed COMMERCIAL guns, not military guns.
HOWEVER, there is absolutely NO difference between an Iver Johnson M1 Carbine and one badged National Postal! Therefore if someone were prosecuted, you can bet that the judge would go along with it.
Realize that UNLike CA or CT where their LAWS specified Brands/Models by name, MGL addresses it by FEATURES. GCAB put together a list, but the list is NOT LAW and any good attorney/prosecutor is going to point out that the list is NOT A COMPLETE List!
Hopefully Atty RKG will put his thoughts here, as he seems to have a very good handle on this sort of idiosyncrasy of law.
If it were me, I would NOT risk it on an FID card!!!
I've covered this in another post within the last ~10 days. Please try to find it for more info. Basically I agree with your contention however.
I'm pretty sure I know WHY only the Iver Johnson was listed. GCAB only listed COMMERCIAL guns, not military guns.
HOWEVER, there is absolutely NO difference between an Iver Johnson M1 Carbine and one badged National Postal! Therefore if someone were prosecuted, you can bet that the judge would go along with it.
Realize that UNLike CA or CT where their LAWS specified Brands/Models by name, MGL addresses it by FEATURES. GCAB put together a list, but the list is NOT LAW and any good attorney/prosecutor is going to point out that the list is NOT A COMPLETE List!
Hopefully Atty RKG will put his thoughts here, as he seems to have a very good handle on this sort of idiosyncrasy of law.
If it were me, I would NOT risk it on an FID card!!!
I've covered this in another post within the last ~10 days. Please try to find it for more info. Basically I agree with your contention however.
That link is from a guy that was busted by the ATF a while back. Its an old add.
The only repro I would ever consider is one from: http://www.auto-ordnance.com/pr_ar0506.html
But even then I've heard mixed reviews. Plus me, I'm a purist and like my military guns just that... military.
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
Thanks. I called and I emailed but...
...have not received a reply. I'd like to see what CMP will offer--but gotta wait.
The strange thing about M1 Carbines to me is that while I was in VN, 5th Marines, 1967 we considered these things to be crap. The reason was that ARVN had them and consequently the VC ended up with them--along with M-16 I might add! The idea of carrying a carbine didn't fly with most Marines who carried the M-14 when I arrived. We switched to the M-16 after I'd been in country for about 3-4 months (as I recall). We're talkin 40 years here. I had 5 M-16s before I left Nam. They kept handing us new and improved versions till they got it right I guess. I damned near got one full auto home but got hit and left all my things behind when I was sent home.
I recall our CO--we had a few--got one, took it on a company patrol and fired it out in the boonies. Everyone within ear shoot dove to the ground and clicked off saftey ready for a VC/NVA attack. He was somewhat embarrassed (my recollection) and didn't take it out again.
As I have been reading and checking--it seems the Carbine was well underestimated by us 19-20+ year olds. It seems like a fair weapon.
Thanks for the reply.
Semper Fi--Rob
PS: It seems strange that ATF lets this guy keep his web site up. Guess they don't care about the site itself. I wonder if I'll be hearing from ATF now that I've emailed him--hehehehe.
...have not received a reply. I'd like to see what CMP will offer--but gotta wait.
The strange thing about M1 Carbines to me is that while I was in VN, 5th Marines, 1967 we considered these things to be crap. The reason was that ARVN had them and consequently the VC ended up with them--along with M-16 I might add! The idea of carrying a carbine didn't fly with most Marines who carried the M-14 when I arrived. We switched to the M-16 after I'd been in country for about 3-4 months (as I recall). We're talkin 40 years here. I had 5 M-16s before I left Nam. They kept handing us new and improved versions till they got it right I guess. I damned near got one full auto home but got hit and left all my things behind when I was sent home.
I recall our CO--we had a few--got one, took it on a company patrol and fired it out in the boonies. Everyone within ear shoot dove to the ground and clicked off saftey ready for a VC/NVA attack. He was somewhat embarrassed (my recollection) and didn't take it out again.
As I have been reading and checking--it seems the Carbine was well underestimated by us 19-20+ year olds. It seems like a fair weapon.
Thanks for the reply.
Semper Fi--Rob
PS: It seems strange that ATF lets this guy keep his web site up. Guess they don't care about the site itself. I wonder if I'll be hearing from ATF now that I've emailed him--hehehehe.
I'm a bit lost on MA laws. I assume they're Blue State laws like the lib laws of
California--but I could be off on that. Vermont seems to allow for concealed weapons if you can just own the gun. Are you saying that a bayonet lug constitues an automatic weapon (for banning them)? --Rob
California--but I could be off on that. Vermont seems to allow for concealed weapons if you can just own the gun. Are you saying that a bayonet lug constitues an automatic weapon (for banning them)? --Rob
I think you are extremely confused. An M1 carbine is by definition not an automatic weapon (that would be an M2 carbine). However, the bayonet lug may result in the artificial and meaningless (to us) categorization of the firearm as an "assault weapon", and assault weapons not legally possessed (read:manufactured after) 9/13/94 are not legal in Massachusetts.
I was reading some of the forums over on the RWVA site and somebody there posted that there is something like 50,000 of the M1 carbines coming in - this person claimed they were from South Korea. He also said there were more M1 Garands coming in too.
I am going to have to start saving up some $$$
I am going to have to start saving up some $$$
Not sure if the USGI M1 carbines have forged receivers or not - but the IDI M1 carbines listed on that page say they do not have forged.
Oh I just got this much
I'd asked about large magazines. he won't ship them. I was in Nevada and they won't sell them to Californians--or actually anyone outside of Nevada. They ask for ID. I have not asked about the rifles.
No, your state laws prohibit large capacity magazines.
Robert MacNichol wrote:
> Can I get these shipped to California?
>
> Thanks--Rob
>
> PS: I left a voice mail around 11:45 East Coast time.
>
>
--
Richard Feinberg
15 Farm Lane
Norton, MA 02766
Tel: 1 508 285 8340
Fax: 1 509 692 7295
Email: [email protected]
I'd asked about large magazines. he won't ship them. I was in Nevada and they won't sell them to Californians--or actually anyone outside of Nevada. They ask for ID. I have not asked about the rifles.
No, your state laws prohibit large capacity magazines.
Robert MacNichol wrote:
> Can I get these shipped to California?
>
> Thanks--Rob
>
> PS: I left a voice mail around 11:45 East Coast time.
>
>
--
Richard Feinberg
15 Farm Lane
Norton, MA 02766
Tel: 1 508 285 8340
Fax: 1 509 692 7295
Email: [email protected]
I believe that being an NRA cert'd instructor is a qualifier as well.
Chuck
NES Member
But why want one?
Hi,
This is just to start a discussion with the knowledgeable folks on the forum, not a slam of any one's favorite rifle. I'll probably get one of these carbines just for the historical value of it.
But, is the M1 carbine a good rifle in the old SHTF scenario?![[flame]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/032.gif "Flame [flame]")
I was hefting one with a folding stock at the Springfield show. A guy with an airborne patch on his OD jacket looked on. I asked him if this is what the guys jumped into France with. He said the way he heard it every para that could tossed his carbine and grabbed a Garand. They didn't care it was heavier, but they did care the 30 Carbine round wasn't stopping the enemy. And unless CMP makes surplus ammo available, the 30 Carbine round is rather explensive.
True? Hearsay? Heretical?!
-= chuck
Hi,
This is just to start a discussion with the knowledgeable folks on the forum, not a slam of any one's favorite rifle. I'll probably get one of these carbines just for the historical value of it.
But, is the M1 carbine a good rifle in the old SHTF scenario?
I was hefting one with a folding stock at the Springfield show. A guy with an airborne patch on his OD jacket looked on. I asked him if this is what the guys jumped into France with. He said the way he heard it every para that could tossed his carbine and grabbed a Garand. They didn't care it was heavier, but they did care the 30 Carbine round wasn't stopping the enemy. And unless CMP makes surplus ammo available, the 30 Carbine round is rather explensive.
True? Hearsay? Heretical?!
-= chuck
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dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
From what I'm reading, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence that the .30 carbine round isn't a hell of a manstopper. OTOH, I'm not getting it as an SHTF rifle but as a good-grief-this-is-fun-to-shoot rifle. Which isn't to say that it's not a good SHTF rifle, since you're not in combat in that scenario, you're trying to stay OUT of combat! And a light rifle is certainly easier to hump than a heavy one.
Read the link... and there are a few more links at the end of the article.
The M1 Carbine certainly wouldn't be my EOTWAWKI rifle. It is very light weight and handy, and more powerful than most pistols at short and medium range, so it has a place in the spectrum of small arms, but for me it is more of a collector's item.
For SHTF, I'd probably grab my 16" AR.
For SHTF, I'd probably grab my 16" AR.
Fulton Armory carries sells an M1 carbine - and they sell accessories.
http://fulton-armory.com/MCarbRifles.htm
They have a Picatinny rail system that allows you to replace the upper handguard - and mount a scope, on the site they show an M1 carbine with what looks like an Aimpoint. I don't know about others but this looks like a totally viable SHTF gun to me - after all the US Army thought they were good enough for a good many of it's soldiers - they built something like 6 million of the things.
This is just my opinion - but this might make an especially good SHTF rifle for smaller statured persons - like women or teenagers.
Fulton also lists ammo at $169.95 for a case of 1000 - that is a price that does not sound too bad to me, you arent going to get .223, 30-06, or .308 that cheap any more. I pay $17.95 at Walmart for a 100 count box of .40S&W target - so 1000 would be $179.95 - so it's a little cheaper than that.
Nothing of course is going to beat the price of .22LR ammo.
http://fulton-armory.com/MCarbRifles.htm
They have a Picatinny rail system that allows you to replace the upper handguard - and mount a scope, on the site they show an M1 carbine with what looks like an Aimpoint. I don't know about others but this looks like a totally viable SHTF gun to me - after all the US Army thought they were good enough for a good many of it's soldiers - they built something like 6 million of the things.
This is just my opinion - but this might make an especially good SHTF rifle for smaller statured persons - like women or teenagers.
Fulton also lists ammo at $169.95 for a case of 1000 - that is a price that does not sound too bad to me, you arent going to get .223, 30-06, or .308 that cheap any more. I pay $17.95 at Walmart for a 100 count box of .40S&W target - so 1000 would be $179.95 - so it's a little cheaper than that.
Nothing of course is going to beat the price of .22LR ammo.
Chuck
NES Member
Even with a bayonet lug (and bayonet lug only), it wouldn't be categorized as an "assault weapon"/assault rifle. It would need one additional feature (folding/collapsible stock, threaded barrel/flash suppressor, pistol grip, grenade launcher), in order to qualify as an AW.
Enjoyed the read on Carbine and bayonet practice...
We often said in Nam that we prefer fighting hand-to-hand at the 500 meter
line--in the prone position. As for those who don't like the Carbine--especially
the greatest gen. who wanted a Garand--this was a lament heard from my dad
who would say nothing was as good as the 1903 Springfield. The guys in Nam
wanted an M-14 over an M-16. I was lazy--I liked the carrying handle on the 16
and I didn't think mine were bad after the first two. They took our 16s and
handed us new ones that we were told had the chamber chromium plated so
they would not jam. There was some problem with jamming. I did a couple of
assaults across a paddy with a f-ing bore cleaning rod sticking out of the
barrel. I have been accused of making this up but I'm not. I was lucky in that
the VC ran off and the other's 16s were firing away. So pick your weapon and tell
the tales they all come with a story. We just had a diminished view of ARVN
and the VC who carried the Carbine so the "view" probably carried over from
our opinions about ARVN to the weapons they carried.
Anecdote: We were told how deadly the 16 round was. Small but it
could go into your foot and rip out through your head, etc., etc. That was
fine. Made us feel badass. That was until we began coming across VC
with M-16s. Then they had to come up with another reason not to worry
about the VC shooting us with our own _deadly_ weapons. Of course, in the
back of your mind, you're thinking about the round going through _your_ hand
and out _your_ eyeball. – Rob
We often said in Nam that we prefer fighting hand-to-hand at the 500 meter
line--in the prone position. As for those who don't like the Carbine--especially
the greatest gen. who wanted a Garand--this was a lament heard from my dad
who would say nothing was as good as the 1903 Springfield. The guys in Nam
wanted an M-14 over an M-16. I was lazy--I liked the carrying handle on the 16
and I didn't think mine were bad after the first two. They took our 16s and
handed us new ones that we were told had the chamber chromium plated so
they would not jam. There was some problem with jamming. I did a couple of
assaults across a paddy with a f-ing bore cleaning rod sticking out of the
barrel. I have been accused of making this up but I'm not. I was lucky in that
the VC ran off and the other's 16s were firing away. So pick your weapon and tell
the tales they all come with a story. We just had a diminished view of ARVN
and the VC who carried the Carbine so the "view" probably carried over from
our opinions about ARVN to the weapons they carried.
Anecdote: We were told how deadly the 16 round was. Small but it
could go into your foot and rip out through your head, etc., etc. That was
fine. Made us feel badass. That was until we began coming across VC
with M-16s. Then they had to come up with another reason not to worry
about the VC shooting us with our own _deadly_ weapons. Of course, in the
back of your mind, you're thinking about the round going through _your_ hand
and out _your_ eyeball. – Rob
Hi,
This is just to start a discussion with the knowledgeable folks on the forum, not a slam of any one's favorite rifle. I'll probably get one of these carbines just for the historical value of it.
But, is the M1 carbine a good rifle in the old SHTF scenario?
I was hefting one with a folding stock at the Springfield show. A guy with an airborne patch on his OD jacket looked on. I asked him if this is what the guys jumped into France with. He said the way he heard it every para that could tossed his carbine and grabbed a Garand. They didn't care it was heavier, but they did care the 30 Carbine round wasn't stopping the enemy. And unless CMP makes surplus ammo available, the 30 Carbine round is rather explensive.
True? Hearsay? Heretical?!
-= chuck
I guess it all depends on if you think the ol' .45ACP is a "manstopper". It is generally a universal belief that the 45 is the "ultimate" "manstopper" among handguns. But consider this: Muzzle energy of the .45 is 350-400 ft lbs. The 30 Carbine is 965. At 100 yds the 30 Carbine is at 600 ft. lbs. while the 45 is down to 300.
While the Carbine is certainly no Garand, it appears to be way ahead of the trusty old .45 and not many people feel under-gunned with a 1911. And remember: that is what the 30 Carbine was designed as; a replacement for the Garand that was easier to make hits with than the sidearm. For tank crews, engineers, officers, etc...Those who would carry it a lot and shoot little (generally speaking).
Not the ideal infantry weapon perhaps, but as a survival gun, why not?
For long range work the .30 carbine is not so hot compared to a fullsize rifle round.
Some people say that it's not a good manstopper, but ballistically, it is more potent than a .357 magnum and everyone raves about what a manstopper that is.
Go figure.
Some people say that it's not a good manstopper, but ballistically, it is more potent than a .357 magnum and everyone raves about what a manstopper that is.
Go figure.
SHTF, like snow-covered forests in the Ardennes, or 500,000 screaming Chinese coming across the border? The US Army used it in two wars where I guess you'd have to say the Shit Hit The Fan.Hi,
But, is the M1 carbine a good rifle in the old SHTF scenario?
Well, yes, in those cases, I think it's a pretty good rifle in the SHTF scenario. Now Zombies and the Undead...I don't know.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
the Zombie Survival Guide mentions the M1 Carbine specifically as a good anti-zombie weapon. Zombies can be taken out with one head shot, and the M1 carbine is a lightweight weapon with high capacity magazines... 30 dead zombies per mag if you can shoot straight!
(of course, if you can shoot straight while THIRTY ZOMBIES are heading for you, you're a calmer person than I am... I suspect that I'd be heading for the horizon in that case!)
tuna
NES Member
Don't forget, though ammo type IS limited, we aren't stuck with FMJ ball like the military is, either.
And here I was, happy to be gunsitting both an SKS and an AK (two different owners) so I could shoot them side by side and decide which one I wanted. I guess my mind is made up on this decision, SKS or AK - and the Carbine WINS!!! Let the saving begin!
And here I was, happy to be gunsitting both an SKS and an AK (two different owners) so I could shoot them side by side and decide which one I wanted. I guess my mind is made up on this decision, SKS or AK - and the Carbine WINS!!! Let the saving begin!
CMP M1 Carbines
I know we had another thread around here somewhere but I couldn't find it and just wanted to pass this along.
I read on another forum that the CMP M1 Carbines came in from Italy and are being graded now. Theres also a ton of ammo that CMP will be selling too.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
I know we had another thread around here somewhere but I couldn't find it and just wanted to pass this along.
I read on another forum that the CMP M1 Carbines came in from Italy and are being graded now. Theres also a ton of ammo that CMP will be selling too.
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I know we had another thread around here somewhere but I couldn't find it and just wanted to pass this along.
I read on another forum that the CMP M1 Carbines came in from Italy and are being graded now. Theres also a ton of ammo that CMP will be selling too.
Sweeeeeeeet.
I am seriously stoked about this. I plan on getting a MINIMUM of two rifles, ideally three and even quite possibly four.
1 in the better grade to restore and keep pristine.
1 in the lower grade to leave stock and shoot the barrel out of.
1 in the lower grade to convert to an eeeevil assault rifle (figuring that the likelihood of an M1 carbine being pre-ban is pretty high...)
And, if funds permit, a second "better grade" to restore as a shooter.
I could probably find a use for a fifth and/or sixth, too...
I've heard rumors that the "rack" grade M1 carbines will be priced around $350 or so, and the "better" grade between $450 and $500. That's DEFINITELY one of each, and possibly two lower and one higher grade...
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