Comm2A, SAF, GOAL and FPC file against Baker admin on shop closures

[Waher]

What does that mean in laymen's terms for those of us legalese challenged ?

The iffy GOA case was consolidated into the better SAF case which is under Judge Woodcock, whom is the reasonable fellow which struck down MA's illegal ban on resident aliens being able to obtain permits. In other words, exactly what we wanted to happen for the greatest likelihood of our side getting a fair shake.

Two parties filed cases raising the same legal issues so they have been merged into a single case. What is good for each party is that their case is not deep sixed. What is bad for each party is that they are not longer exclusively in charge of how their position is argued.

Hopefully GOA's lawyer will know enough to play well with the team rather than Leroy Jenkins' it.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I suspect LEOs are doing a lot of shopping for friends and family.

I believe the ATF has ruled that knowing that actual buyer is not a prohibited person is not a defense against a straw sale charge and, unlike MA law enforcement agencies, the Feds do not consider a MA badge a shield from prosecution.

 

[Coyote33]

... MGL prohibits a MA Dealer from shipping guns/ammo to anyone in the state. [There is no Federal prohibition, it is strictly a MA thing.]

I never knew that. What law? Thanks Len.

 

[terraformer]

Judge Douglas P. Woodlock: ORDER - Following consultation with Judge Woodlock, who was assigned McCarthy v. Baker, 20cv10701, the first filed of these apparently related cases, Judge Hillman, who was initially assigned Cedrone v. Baker, 20cv40041, the second filed case, transferred the Cedrone matter, with Judge Woodlocks consent, see generally Local Rule 40.1(i)(1), to Judge Woodlock for treatment on a consolidated basis with the McCarthy matter. Accordingly, it is hereby ORDERED that the plaintiffs in Cedrone, having now submitted the necessary sworn evidentiary materials upon which to base interlocutory relief, which if properly served would justify a short order of notice for response on or before April 28, 2020, shall be subject to the procedural and scheduling order [Dkt. No. 23] entered yesterday in McCarthy. To that end the plaintiffs (Ex Parte) Emergency Motion [Dkt No. 4] for Temporary Restraining Order submitted in Cedrone is DENIED without prejudice to consideration of the requested interlocutory injunctive relief at the previously scheduled preliminary injunction hearing on May 4, 2020 at 10:00 a.m.(Beatty, Barbara) (Entered: 04/16/2020)

So, I believe the now in the above is a typo and it should have been not, but it appears the Cedrone suit was filed with a sealed TRO, why escapes me. I know they didn't file a verified complaint and so they needed to file affidavits which I am not sure they did given only two entries are hidden on the docket. Most of the time, affidavits are given their own entries on the docket and only 4 & 5 are hidden from view. So that would likely be the motion and a supporting MOU, but it could be a different combo of things too. to sure. But if there are no affidavits, no facts with which to grant the TRO, hence why Woodlock likely denied their TRO.

Anyhow, all this means for sure is that the GOA case will be heard with ours at the same time, whatever that time may be.

 

[Coyote33]

Can they drop, then "combine" into the other suit?

What does that mean in laymen's terms for those of us legalese challenged ?

Two parties filed cases raising the same legal issues so they have been merged into a single case. ...

Good.

The iffy GOA case was consolidated into the better SAF case which is under Judge Woodcock, whom is the reasonable fellow which struck down MA's illegal ban on resident aliens being able to obtain permits. In other words, exactly what we wanted to happen for the greatest likelihood of our side getting a fair shake.
Hopefully GOA's lawyer will know enough to play well with the team rather than Leroy Jenkins' it.

This is what they call "a learning moment". This can be a GREAT way to get many parties on the same page. Utilize legal resources to maximize the returns. Put some teamwork to use, and let them have it!

I believe the ATF has ruled that knowing that actual buyer is not a prohibited person is not a defense against a straw sale charge and, unlike MA law enforcement agencies, the Feds do not consider a MA badge a shield from prosecution.

"professional courtesy" will come out on top once again.

 

[Dennis in MA]

MGL prohibits a MA Dealer from shipping guns/ammo to anyone in the state. [There is no Federal prohibition, it is strictly a MA thing.]

(We need a good facepalm smiley)

 

[KBCraig]

Adhering to contracts that may require continued sales is one thing, but opening the pro shop to LE for general and personal shopping is quite another.

Would the same government that ordered them closed, then force them to fulfill any contractual obligations?

 

[Christian]

Would the same government that ordered them closed, then force them to fulfill any contractual obligations?

(said doing my best Alec Guinness Obi-Wan Kenobi impression) "And all at once, I heard the screams of Massachusetts teachers when they realized that they'll be required to work into July."

The meltdowns and aneurisms would be monumental.

 

[Old Rover]

Atta boy keep inline with the communist party. Gun shops should remain open for all or none, not for just for a certain group of people with a certain job and a shinny piece of metal.
f*** that. you are missing the point.

I Got the Point Loud & Clear. that only works in a Regular Non Commy State . It is all water under the Bridge . Nothing will change Here , The Hearing Will take Place as Planned by the Commies well after the Quarantine is over and every Novelty Store ,Ice Cream Shop , and everything under the Sun has been reopened . That is when the Hearing will take place and the Gun shops will reopen. Think about it When is the last time we Won Anything ? Never ! We are Still waiting for our AR's to be Legally F.S. again , That won't happen in my lifetime . So who gives a Bleep if some LEO's are keeping a couple of stores from possible Closing their Doors For Good , so you guys want to Bankrupt Them !
I get it You guys will fix them , Bankrupt them for Disagreeing with you , Cancel them ! That sounds familiar you guys aren't Democrat Millennials are you ? Your now part of the Cancel Culture .

 

[Dadstoys]

Thanks for the clarifications.
So it seems like this is a good thing and before a reasonable judge.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Dadstoys]

I Got the Point Loud & Clear. that only works in a Regular Non Commy State . It is all water under the Bridge . Nothing will change Here , The Hearing Will take Place as Planned by the Commies well after the Quarantine is over and every Novelty Store ,Ice Cream Shop , and everything under the Sun has been reopened . That is when the Hearing will take place and the Gun shops will reopen. Think about it When is the last time we Won Anything ? Never ! We are Still waiting for our AR's to be Legally F.S. again , That won't happen in my lifetime . So who gives a Bleep if some LEO's are keeping a couple of stores from possible Closing their Doors For Good , Bankrupt Them !
I get it You guys will fix them , Bankrupt them for Disagreeing with you , Cancel them ! That sounds familiar you guys aren't Democrat Millennials are you ? Your now part of the Cancel Culture .

I wouldn't count on anything reopening by that date.
Two reasons
We're still hot with cases and the commies are enjoying the shit out of seeing how far they can push.

 

[Quite_Exasperated]

We should position re-opening ranges as “therapy” for these stressful times and anyone opposed is racist/sexist/anti-lgbtqxyz...let them respond to those charges..

 

[boscru]

You'd have to be some sort of "maroon" to shop there anyway. I swear he prices stuff over MSRP. Yikes.

agreed. from what i've seen there, prices are over MSRP

 

[Quantavious G]

Called Bakers office today. Told his aide that it's time for him to ask Maura Healey for his testicles back and open up ranges and gun stores. I think the kid actually stifled a chuckle.

 

[Coyote33]

Worcester T&G article about the second suit.... with extensive interview...

Gun shops sue state over coronavirus closures

A group of gun owners, gun shop proprietors and a sportsmen's club is suing Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker and Attorney General Maura Healey, alleging that their rights were violated when they were…

www.telegram.com

I've got a strongly negative opinion I'm going to largely keep to myself for now since I've already made the point earlier.

God. SOMEBODY, please go on there and reply back to some of those dreadful comments. People actually read those, and form opinions from them.

 

[Boston4567]

So, I believe the now in the above is a typo and it should have been not, but it appears the Cedrone suit was filed with a sealed TRO, why escapes me. I know they didn't file a verified complaint and so they needed to file affidavits which I am not sure they did given only two entries are hidden on the docket. Most of the time, affidavits are given their own entries on the docket and only 4 & 5 are hidden from view. So that would likely be the motion and a supporting MOU, but it could be a different combo of things too. to sure. But if there are no affidavits, no facts with which to grant the TRO, hence why Woodlock likely denied their TRO.

Anyhow, all this means for sure is that the GOA case will be heard with ours at the same time, whatever that time may be.

I'm assuming Comm2a's TRO is still pending and hasn't just been lost in the shuffle here?

Edit: And would it be unusual if a TRO like this was granted prior to oral argument?

 

[71montess]

I Got the Point Loud & Clear. that only works in a Regular Non Commy State . It is all water under the Bridge . Nothing will change Here , The Hearing Will take Place as Planned by the Commies well after the Quarantine is over and every Novelty Store ,Ice Cream Shop , and everything under the Sun has been reopened . That is when the Hearing will take place and the Gun shops will reopen. Think about it When is the last time we Won Anything ? Never ! We are Still waiting for our AR's to be Legally F.S. again , That won't happen in my lifetime . So who gives a Bleep if some LEO's are keeping a couple of stores from possible Closing their Doors For Good , Bankrupt Them !
I get it You guys will fix them , Bankrupt them for Disagreeing with you , Cancel them ! That sounds familiar you guys aren't Democrat Millennials are you ? Your now part of the Cancel Culture .

I’ve gotta disagree, if the state mass media gets word there is a concerted effort from gun shops and gun ranges to shut out all pd and state use of their facilities if the public can’t use them. It would be a big event. Even if there really isn’t much PD money involved at the gun shops. Personally I think the PDs should be kicked out of private ranges anyways. Let them open their own !

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

MGL prohibits a MA Dealer from shipping guns/ammo to anyone in the state. [There is no Federal prohibition, it is strictly a MA thing.]

Actually, if I recall the exact wording, folks with a license to sell ammunition have to transact in person. This effectivily prohibts anyone with a Mass license from even shipping to buyers out of state. I think this could be a commerce clause issue....

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

The iffy GOA case was consolidated into the better SAF case which is under Judge Woodcock, whom is the reasonable fellow which struck down MA's illegal ban on resident aliens being able to obtain permits. In other words, exactly what we wanted to happen for the greatest likelihood of our side getting a fair shake.


Hopefully GOA's lawyer will know enough to play well with the team rather than Leroy Jenkins' it.

No, the cases were not consolidated. They were just assigned to the same judge. The courts like to think 'efficiency'. You have two similar cases they should be assigned to the same judge so you don't have conflicting rulings on the same kind of question.

 

[terraformer]

I'm assuming Comm2a's TRO is still pending and hasn't just been lost in the shuffle here?

Edit: And would it be unusual if a TRO like this was granted prior to oral argument?

People who understand federal practice don’t file ex-parte TROs against the government without valid reason. Good practitioners understand how and when to file them. Stay tuned.

Hopefully GOA's lawyer will know enough to play well with the team rather than Leroy Jenkins' it.

From your lips to God’s ears. Leroooyyyyy....

 

[terraformer]

Actually, if I recall the exact wording, folks with a license to sell ammunition have to transact in person. This effectivily prohibts anyone with a Mass license from even shipping to buyers out of state. I think this could be a commerce clause issue....

Correct. It’s not the guns, but the ammo that can’t be sold outside the state.

 

[shootingsupply]

SHOOTING SUPPLY 848 STATE RD WESTPORT MA 02790 Open 24/7 On line shootingsupply.com 774-319-5477 Covid-19 is bad news and dangerous. Please take precautions and stay safe. On 4-2 we were closed because Governor Baker removed Gun Shops from the list of essential business. Gov. Baker had released a list of essential business that included Gun Shops and Gun Ranges. The Attorney General apparently interceded and Gov. Baker backed down and removed Gun Shops and Gun Ranges from the list of essential business. Click Image to Read the Full Store on Goal.org Apparently Governor Baker does not think your Second Amendment Right is an essential Right, Gun Shops All Across the State are closed. Gun Shop Jobs are not essential. But This Guy is Apparently Essential, because he is still on the job at work. Please call or email Governor Baker and tell him that Gun Shops are Essential. 617-725-4005 https://www.mass.gov/forms/email-the-governors-office Click Image to see full Complaint A request for an Emergency Injunction has also been filled. Hopefully the Court will have a hearing next week. I will keep everyone informed. Click on Photo for link to complete article. If you can't read it, skip the survey.

Copyright © 2020 Shooting Supply, All rights reserved. Shooting Supply Specials Our mailing address is: Shooting Supply 848 State Rd Westport, MA 02790

 

[Boston4567]

​ SHOOTING SUPPLY 848 STATE RD WESTPORT MA 02790 Open 24/7 On line shootingsupply.com 774-319-5477 Covid-19 is bad news and dangerous. Please take precautions and stay safe. On 4-2 we were closed because Governor Baker removed Gun Shops from the list of essential business. Gov. Baker had released a list of essential business that included Gun Shops and Gun Ranges. The Attorney General apparently interceded and Gov. Baker backed down and removed Gun Shops and Gun Ranges from the list of essential business. Click Image to Read the Full Store on Goal.org Apparently Governor Baker does not think your Second Amendment Right is an essential Right, Gun Shops All Across the State are closed. Gun Shop Jobs are not essential. But This Guy is Apparently Essential, because he is still on the job at work. Please call or email Governor Baker and tell him that Gun Shops are Essential. 617-725-4005 https://www.mass.gov/forms/email-the-governors-office ​ Click Image to see full Complaint ​ A request for an Emergency Injunction has also been filled. Hopefully the Court will have a hearing next week. I will keep everyone informed. ​ Click on Photo for link to complete article. If you can't read it, skip the survey.

​ Copyright © 2020 Shooting Supply, All rights reserved. Shooting Supply Specials Our mailing address is: Shooting Supply 848 State Rd Westport, MA 02790

I live 90 minutes away from your shop and I drove down and bought a gun from you before they shut you down.

When you win this suit I'll drive 90 minutes back down to make my next purchase from you instead of 20 minutes to Four Seasons because you're willing to stand up and fight.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Actually, if I recall the exact wording, folks with a license to sell ammunition have to transact in person. This effectivily prohibts anyone with a Mass license from even shipping to buyers out of state. I think this could be a commerce clause issue....

So, if one mail orders ammo the AG considers the sale to take place in the location to which the common carrier delivers the product, but if one sells ammo the transaction takes place at the point of delivery to the common carrier.

 

[exo]

So, if one mail orders ammo the AG considers the sale to take place in the location to which the common carrier delivers the product, but if one sells ammo the transaction takes place at the point of delivery to the common carrier.

Liberal logic

 

[Mesatchornug]

So, if one mail orders ammo the AG considers the sale to take place in the location to which the common carrier delivers the product, but if one sells ammo the transaction takes place at the point of delivery to the common carrier.

If one does anything, it happens in the place most advantageous to the boot-heel of government.

 

[Chris]

So, if one mail orders ammo the AG considers the sale to take place in the location to which the common carrier delivers the product, but if one sells ammo the transaction takes place at the point of delivery to the common carrier.

Why not? This is the state that has ruled that drugs in your glove box are under your direct control, but a gun in the same glove box is not.

Do you really expect tyrants to be consistent?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

There was case in Boston a number of years ago in which two people were tried for the same murder, with the prosecution using a different theory of the crime in each case (each theory had the defendant as the one doing the killer). Both were convicted, and the court system found nothing wrong with that as proper trial procedures had been followed.

 

[GM-GUY]

I think I heard on WTAG it was denied.

 

[rivet_42]

Because of the length of time that these cases usually take, I'm going to guess that this case will last past the point where the COVID-19 emergency is declared largely over, and the Commonwealth says that most retail business can re-open. When that happens, the state is going to try to moot the case. (as with the NYRPA v. NYC case)