Confirmed instances of .pdf/paper FA-10 form rejection by MA FRB

[ntomsw]

Len, if Jason wants to do so, he can communicate to PDs that paper FA-10 forms are still acceptable, that PDs should stock them, and he can pro-actively send them forms. He chooses not to. Instead, he wants to keep playing games.

This problem starts at the FRB and Jason can fix it if he wants to. He doesn't want to. He just wants to deflect the blame elsewhere.

This.

Jason, stop playing games and do your @#$!@ job.

So then go to your PD and when they don't have one, send a letter back to Guida telling him that a) you already sent him the info and b) your PD doesn't have the forms.

Jason, we can keep playing this game as long as you want. Or you could just do your job and start sending forms to police departments.

Len, then he can provide them directly to citizens upon request by citizens.

The FRB is required to provide the forms. The FRB is not providing the forms. End of story. End of excuses.

I agree 100% with all of this. It's bull shit. If they are still accepting forms, which they are still as of now, then send them directly to us, let us grab some directly from the FRB in Chelsea, or get them to PD's without us having to call and play circus games just to find forms. It's ridiculous.

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We have stickies on where to find FA-10 forms that I asked for, that's how pathetic it is. This guy plays just as many games as anyone else in MA. He's a joke.

 

[Coyote33]

All of what he said ^^^, or just put a .pdf file online, so we can print our own.

Or, just ELIMINATE THE ENTIRE PROCESS!!! Talk about saving the agency money, and saving the taxpayers ("The People") aggravation...

 

[exo]

LenS, serious question and I'm not trying to offend you... why do you stick up for Jason Guida all the time? Do you really believe what he tells you? He's a bureaucrat, and bureaucrats lie.

It is within his power to fix this situation, if he wanted to. The evidence suggests that he clearly does not want to.

 

[namedpipes]

LenS, serious question and I'm not trying to offend you... why do you stick up for Jason Guida all the time? Do you really believe what he tells you? He's a bureaucrat, and bureaucrats lie.

It is within his power to fix this situation, if he wanted to. The evidence suggests that he clearly does not want to.

Honestly, I'm interested too. Guida is actively working AGAINST the interests of the Constitution and the People.

 

[Dream to Dream]

He also told me that he stopped the practice of sending forms to individuals due to what he read here on NES. Seeing people offer many forms to others, posting that they scooped a dozen/twenty/thirty forms, etc. basically told him that some were abusing the system (stockpiling, hogging them, etc.). We can agree or disagree with his reaction but that is what he told me.

I fail to see why "stockpiling" is a major issue. I doubt anyone is using them as wallpaper or origami practice. These are gun owners that get a supply of them for future transfers... and God forbid anyone had the audacity to actually share them with others who can't get a hold of them from their local PD.

 

[Len-2A Training]

LenS, serious question and I'm not trying to offend you... why do you stick up for Jason Guida all the time? Do you really believe what he tells you? He's a bureaucrat, and bureaucrats lie.

It is within his power to fix this situation, if he wanted to. The evidence suggests that he clearly does not want to.

I am not offended by your question. I consider it legit and will answer it as such.

Unlike the rest of the folks here, I actually talk with the guy and Email back and forth. I find Jason very "upfront" with me, willing to answer all my questions (even when I don't like the answers). I'm the only person here on NES with that connection and willing to use it so that we understand their rules, and "where they are coming from". [I consider myself a pretty astute judge of personal character and I've only had one person totally buffalo me (there was some handwriting on the wall that I did choose to ignore) in my years on this earth and I used my LE connections to have the FL AG seize a bank account and return $9+ Million to the rightful owners who had been swindled as well as siccing the Boston news media on the thief (Hank Phillipe Ryan caught up with him in Holland) and exposing the story even though the Dutch gov't refused to prosecute him. I properly judged a fellow 9th grader as a potential murderer (yup he later tried to murder a cop and eventually was found swimming off the coast of FL wearing cement overshoes according to his Sister-in-law), my formerly favorite Cousin who is a serial grand larceny thief still on the lam after almost 30 years (I smelled a rat immediately after she ran into us "accidentally" one day in our town), a lifer at MCI-Walpole who called me at work one day and asked me to intercede with the Cmr of Corrections for an early release, dealing with two chiefs who I found that if I dropped an idea in their lap and walked away they would eventually implement it as "their idea", a professor (who was also Sen. Chmn Ways & Means) who told me that the only difference between those inside MCI-Walpole and the rest of us was "they got caught", he was eventually indicted and imprisoned! I could go on . . . ]

I have found Jason to be very likable as a person. I have serious issues with his views on guns and gun ownership however. I also do not believe that "he's his own man" in his job . . . that he is mandated to do certain things and take certain positions in order to keep his job and that some of the folks pulling those strings are at the top of the gov't food chain in MA! Keep in mind that department heads are approved by the governor and can be removed at any time!

Going back to my ability to assess people . . . I have sat in a few chiefs offices and discussed the infamous AG letter TELLING chiefs to go out and confiscate the MA Dealers Licenses from home-based FFLs. This was back ~1999 or so and the reactions by said chiefs was telling . . . "Nobody tells me what to do" was the theme along with "I don't work for/report to the AG!" Bottom line was that most chiefs dug in their heels and told the AG to FOAD, refusing to do anything until the FFL came up for renewal at which time they were no longer eligible due to the change in law banning home-based FFLs. Although I have not discussed the lack of FA-10s with any chiefs in the past few years, I am suspicious that they have taken the same attitude with Jason's missives that the PDs are to stock them, re-order them, and hand them out to the inquiring public.

I have found it very useful to understand what our enemies are doing and thinking, while others here on NES feel it more useful to rant, rave and call people names because they don't agree with their positions and what they are doing. I'm hoping that someday I'll succeed in getting Jason to understand our issues and positions without my treating him in a hostile manner.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Honestly, I'm interested too. Guida is actively working AGAINST the interests of the Constitution and the People.

The EOPS "official position" wrt the 2A is that it does NOT APPLY TO MA!

Those that have attended any post-Heller seminar given by Chief Glidden have heard him say (paraphrased) "the marching orders of EOPS is 'business as usual' in MA" and that Heller (and McDonald) have no effect on MA laws/policies/procedures.

I hate it, you hate it, but that is the way it is in MA until Comm2A is successful in getting the USSC to bitch-slap the state!

I fail to see why "stockpiling" is a major issue. I doubt anyone is using them as wallpaper or origami practice. These are gun owners that get a supply of them for future transfers... and God forbid anyone had the audacity to actually share them with others who can't get a hold of them from their local PD.

CJIS pays for printing all those forms and Jason's budget keeps getting cut, year after year. So the law mandates that he create forms, create and keep a database of all transactions but his budget can be stretched to the breaking point by things like printing a gazillion forms (allow me the exaggeration to make a point) so that each NES'r has 20-40 forms stockpiled "just in case"!

 

[namedpipes]

. . . I have found it very useful to understand what our enemies are doing and thinking, while others here on NES feel it more useful to rant, rave and call people names because they don't agree with their positions and what they are doing. I'm hoping that someday I'll succeed in getting Jason to understand our issues and positions without my treating him in a hostile manner.

While it might be out of line to call him names, HOW is railing against clear and willful abuse of power, unreasonable?

 

[Len-2A Training]

While it might be out of line to call him names, HOW is railing against clear and willful abuse of power, unreasonable?

What does that get you? Does it change anything? Does it convince those you rail against to change their ways? Or does it just make you feel better that "you did something"?

ETA: MA gun law is a "clear and willful abuse of power". It's not the people in power that is the bigger problem, it is the laws and regulations that need changing and we don't have the clout to do that . . . see the GOAL bills and how far we got by today's deadline as proof of that.

 

[namedpipes]

What does that get you? Does it change anything? Does it convince those you rail against to change their ways? Or does it just make you feel better that "you did something"?

What does remaining silent accomplish? Does it change anything? Does it convince those you don't rail against to change their ways? Or does it just make you feel better that "you didn't rock the boat"?

 

[Len-2A Training]

What does remaining silent accomplish? Does it change anything? Does it convince those you don't rail against to change their ways? Or does it just make you feel better that "you didn't rock the boat"?

Ranting on NES is about as effective as ranting to the mirror in your bathroom. You might feel better but you aren't reaching out to anyone who can change anything you are ranting about.

 

[namedpipes]

Yet we have (albeit negatively) altered the behavior of the FRB through these, as you put it, rantings.

That isn't the desired result but it certainly is being heard.

If I can't alter the situation, at least I can make it less comfortable for those at fault.

 

[mark056]

What does remaining silent accomplish? Does it change anything? Does it convince those you don't rail against to change their ways? Or does it just make you feel better that "you didn't rock the boat"?

Conversely, what does railing about it do, other than make you feel good? What changes have you personally effected? LenS understands the system as it is, not as you would like it to be. It is the system, it is reality, but somehow I don't see a bunch of NES Sons of Liberty standing out Lexington Common with their black rifles willing to make any drastic social or governmental changes, and until that unlikely day comes, we have to work with the hand we are dealt. This is why GOAL and COMM2A are so important.

What has happened is that talk has become a substitute for action, and just bitchin' about it won't effect change.

LenS has done more for the 2A in Mass most of the rest of us. He has a clear understanding of realipolitik.

 

[drgrant]

I have found Jason to be very likable as a person. I have serious issues with his views on guns and gun ownership however. I also do not believe that "he's his own man" in his job . . . that he is mandated to do certain things and take certain positions in order to keep his job and that some of the folks pulling those strings are at the top of the gov't food chain in MA! Keep in mind that department heads are approved by the governor and can be removed at any time!

Len,

The problem arises in the respect of how can you trust someone who has been proven to make woefully inaccurate legal
opinions, among other things. Sure there is the old "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." meme, but in this case I'm not buying it. I find it hard to believe that he is that stupid. There are people getting Fs in law school in MA somewhere that would not misinterpret things the way he does- so it's obviously intentional. (For example, who do you think approved the E-FA-10 page? I'm sure more than one person has called them out on it (likely yourself as well!) too, but they refuse to change it. )

I've seen this guy cause too many problems to believe otherwise, particularly given all the incidents that have been linked
to him, with those memos and otherwise.

I have no trouble believing what you say about the executive office appointments, I am sure he is getting orders from somewhere else.... but after a point you have to judge the character of someone that chooses to stay in that kind of a job doing those kinds of things. To suggest that kind of person might be willing to lie to your face is not that big of a stretch. Think about all the other things he is compromising just to keep his job.


-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

Mike, I believe that the "re-interpretation" of MGL wrt the AWB and hi-cap mags was dictated by someone higher up the food chain. That's why it wasn't signed or dated. The first person I saw (day after memo was released) upset by this memo was Chief Glidden who stated publicly in his seminar to LE "I have some serious issues with this, Jason are you here?" (Jason wasn't present at that time).

I think that the e-FA10 implication that more data is required than is legally required is his way of ensuring that he gets a budget to keep people employed. More data = more need for money/people. I think it is a survival thing. [People who manage databases always want "more data" to justify their existence, whether private sector or public sector jobs!]

I'll never forget the seminar I attended where Glidden and Bill Pickett (predecessor to Jason) spoke as well as when Bill spoke to the Police Square Club in early 1998 . . . he handed out cards where we could list our guns and give that list to our local PD so that they would have the info on file "in case they were ever stolen". Bill pushed this and some of us (including Glidden) had a WTF moment!

 

[namedpipes]

. . . I think that the e-FA10 implication that more data is required than is legally required is his way of ensuring that he gets a budget to keep people employed. More data = more need for money/people. I think it is a survival thing. [People who manage databases always want "more data" to justify their existence, whether private sector or public sector jobs!] . . .

Speaking for myself I don't really give a rat's butt about his budget.

My understanding of the purpose for the FA-10 system is not to register, but to detect transfers that were not lawful at the time they were conducted. Once the State has determined that a transfer was lawful, it has no further use for (or right to) the information. It is entirely possible that my understanding is incorrect, in which case I would continue to hold the position that the system is unconstitutional in the first place, regardless its purpose.

 

[ntomsw]

Speaking for myself I don't really give a rat's butt about his budget.

My understanding of the purpose for the FA-10 system is not to register, but to detect transfers that were not lawful at the time they were conducted. Once the State has determined that a transfer was lawful, it has no further use for (or right to) the information. It is entirely possible that my understanding is incorrect, in which case I would continue to hold the position that the system is unconstitutional in the first place, regardless its purpose.

What do you mean? Like if some dumb ass sells more than 4 a year or something? (not being rude, serious question)

 

[namedpipes]

What do you mean? Like if some dumb ass sells more than 4 a year or something? (not being rude, serious question)

No. Like if someone transfers a firearm to a person with an expired LTC or a large cap to a person with only an LTC-B.

Once that transfer has been deemed lawful, why would the State need to retain a record of it? I get they would need to hold onto exceptions and maybe send out the cavalry if they found a "bad" transfer.

 

[ntomsw]

No. Like if someone transfers a firearm to a person with an expired LTC or a large cap to a person with only an LTC-B.

Once that transfer has been deemed lawful, why would the State need to retain a record of it? I get they would need to hold onto exceptions and maybe send out the cavalry if they found a "bad" transfer.

Ahhh, gotcha. Thanks.

 

[namedpipes]

Although thinking about it, yes, technically the fifth outbound private transfer would be unlawful and you'd be caught, stripped and branded with a scarlet T (for illegal transferrer), this imaginary punishment being just as absurd as the "crime".

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't think that anyone pro-actively ever looks at the database. Only after an incident do the authorities comb the database for info useful in prosecution.

The above is my thoughts, never asked and don't plan on bothering to ask.

 

[namedpipes]

I don't think that anyone pro-actively ever looks at the database. Only after an incident do the authorities comb the database for info useful in prosecution.

The above is my thoughts, never asked and don't plan on bothering to ask.

That I do recollect from past discussions. I just don't find that appropriate. Either the transfer was lawful when it happened and that's that, or it wasn't and the State should have followed up at the time of reporting. There's the justification for his budget if that's all the guy wants.

 

[ntomsw]

I don't really understand why there is an FRB in the 1st place. people supposedly "scanning" FA-10's into the system all day? Why not save everyone a lot of money and shut down the place. If no one is actively looking at them anyway, why is it even there? Just to make everyone's lives' more miserable?

 

[Len-2A Training]

There has been an FRB equivalent probably since at least 1968. I know it's existed in a fashion since at least the mid-1970s. Difference is before computers they stacked them steep and deep in boxes and file cabinets probably by date arrived. Must have been a real horror show to "find" something specific. With the advent of computers, they decided to put everything online in late 1990s in preparation for the massive gun control bill of 1998.

Databases are largely "just in case" and I don't see them ever giving them up. even if a law was passed tomorrow making it illegal to maintain the data, I'd be willing to bet that they would never delete the data . . . at best it would be archived somewhere "just in case"!

 

[wacky_doug]

I have found Jason to be very likable as a person. I have serious issues with his views on guns and gun ownership however. I also do not believe that "he's his own man" in his job . . . that he is mandated to do certain things and take certain positions in order to keep his job and that some of the folks pulling those strings are at the top of the gov't food chain in MA! Keep in mind that department heads are approved by the governor and can be removed at any time!

"Need to keep my job" is usually uttered by people living paycheck to paycheck. I seriously doubt Mr. Guida falls into that category.

Mr. Guida, I judge people by their actions. You seem like a typical lawyer to me. I wish you would prove me wrong.

 

[M1911]

.

 

[wacky_doug]

He doesn't seem like a typical lawyer to me. I've had the pleasure of knowing quite a few lawyers and the ones that I have met are typically moral, upstanding principled people. Mr. Guida doesn't strike me as having any of those characteristics.

We've had different experiences. In fairness, I know several lawyers as you describe them. But with Guida, he seems to be in the other lawyer category, of which there are many who give the overall profession a bad name: "I'm collecting a nice paycheck, so I'll just adjust my ethics and ignore the law."

 

[drgrant]

I don't really understand why there is an FRB in the 1st place. people supposedly "scanning" FA-10's into the system all day? Why not save everyone a lot of money and shut down the place. If no one is actively looking at them anyway, why is it even there? Just to make everyone's lives' more miserable?

Then pull a Coyote and come up with a constituent sponsored amendment to abolish all of S128A/B. Then FA-10s go away.

-Mike

 

[Racenet]

Then pull a Coyote and come up with a constituent sponsored amendment to abolish all of S128A/B. Then FA-10s go away.

They will never go away. But if they did, what would you all bicker about?

 

[ARV]

CJIS pays for printing all those forms and Jason's budget keeps getting cut, year after year. So the law mandates that he create forms, create and keep a database of all transactions but his budget can be stretched to the breaking point by things like printing a gazillion forms (allow me the exaggeration to make a point) so that each NES'r has 20-40 forms stockpiled "just in case"!

Why dont they do something like Florida does with their Permit applications. Make it a PDF (preferably fill-able, in triplicate) that assigns a number every time you access it. Then WE can print them, THEY can process them, and everyone makes out. (Even if I dont agree with the FA-10's existence)