Confirmed instances of .pdf/paper FA-10 form rejection by MA FRB

ARV said:
Why dont they do something like Florida does with their Permit applications. Make it a PDF (preferably fill-able, in triplicate) that assigns a number every time you access it. Then WE can print them, THEY can process them, and everyone makes out. (Even if I dont agree with the FA-10's existence)
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The problem was apparently that because people's printers aren't quite the same, the forms that are printed out are dimensionally different enough that their POS scanning software can't scan them. Or, at least, that is one excuse that Guida is using.
 
M1911 said:
The problem was apparently that because people's printers aren't quite the same, the forms that are printed out are dimensionally different enough that their POS scanning software can't scan them. Or, at least, that is one excuse that Guida is using.
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Yet, hole-in-the-wall doctor's practices routinely OCR snail mail and faxen into emails.

Excuse is the operative word. (yes, I know you know that) :)
 
The OCR software in use by CJIS was developed pre-1998 (pre-ban [laugh] ) and can't handle small changes in orientation (paper not feeding exactly straight) or dimensionally.

For those of us that have been around computers since the 1990s (business apps, not gaming) we remember how horrible OCR was in WinFax which was the best user-product out there for Faxing and OCR'g (non-professional use).

So yes, your doctor's office OCR software is probably light-years better than what CJIS has to put up with. They have no budget to re-develop their programs in "modern" software either.
 
LenS said:
The OCR software in use by CJIS was developed pre-1998 (pre-ban [laugh] ) and can't handle small changes in orientation (paper not feeding exactly straight) or dimensionally.

For those of us that have been around computers since the 1990s (business apps, not gaming) we remember how horrible OCR was in WinFax which was the best user-product out there for Faxing and OCR'g (non-professional use).

So yes, your doctor's office OCR software is probably light-years better than what CJIS has to put up with. They have no budget to re-develop their programs in "modern" software either.
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They had the budget to develop the E-FA-10. *Somebody* had to write it. I have to believe they have one or more programmers on staff.

It would take less than a week to build a proof of concept system to scan and file papers using open source libraries. If they stuck to Linux and MySQL for the platform they could do it license free and except for a decent scanner, likely on cast off hardware.

They don't have a programming staff, you say? I'm sure some kid from MIT would have coded it as an internship for nothing.

There really is no excuse for allowing a system to get to the state you describe . . .
 
I hope this isn't the wrong place. I need to file two e-fa-10 for two guns my grand Na wants to give me that where my grand farther .

Walther p38 and a Remington sportsman 58 12g

How much dose the e-fa-10 cost ?
 
warwickben said:
I hope this isn't the wrong place. I need to file two e-fa-10 for two guns my grand Na wants to give me that where my grand farther .

Walther p38 and a Remington sportsman 58 12g

How much dose the e-fa-10 cost ?
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I suspect your situation maybe more complicated than an fa10. Does your grandmother happen to have an fid/ltc?
 
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I've talked to a few gun stores about this(it would take a awhile to explain)

I'm safe I just need to file fa10.
How much dose the online ones cost so I can get a prepaid credit card.
 
warwickben said:
Want to send me a pm explaining this ?
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Not really.

You asked a question with a (I guess) partial explanation. Your question is answered (form is free).

Now I might be wrong and there certainly are circumstances where I could be, but in general terms, to my recollection, in MA, both parties to the transfer have to have current, valid fid/ltc.

The form is free, whether a serialized paper form obtained at your PD or online.


eta: If it turns out you really *do* need an FFL involved, since the transfer hasn't yet happened, no harm no foul. It's just easier and cheaper to be dead certain beforehand.
 
Im new be nice :)
thought since I lived it mass they would make me pay to follow the law lol...is that so hard to believe?



Me and my brother both got a gun from a family member that passed away.
My brother paid for his fa-10 to be done in the lgs old 50's sw model 39. that store told me I'd have to do the p38 online.

Well I filed my e-fa-10 and when I download the part for my records it's saying I need a password to open the PDF?
I saved my ticket number too.. And saved the last part a HTML file....
 
warwickben said:
Im new be nice :)
thought since I lived it mass they would make me pay to follow the law lol...is that so hard to believe?



Me and my brother both got a gun from a family member that passed away.
My brother paid for his fa-10 to be done in the lgs old 50's sw model 39. that store told me I'd have to do the p38 online.

Well I filed my e-fa-10 and when I download the part for my records it's saying I need a password to open the PDF?
I saved my ticket number too.. And saved the last part a HTML file....
Click to expand...

If you're on a Mac you need to open it in Adobe Reader.
 
ARV said:
Why dont they do something like Florida does with their Permit applications. Make it a PDF (preferably fill-able, in triplicate) that assigns a number every time you access it. Then WE can print them, THEY can process them, and everyone makes out. (Even if I dont agree with the FA-10's existence)
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Funny. Around February I did a transaction. We downloaded an old FA-10 PDF and submitted it. The buyer received a rejection notice (I didn't get one) indicating that the form needs to be hand written. We had filled out the PDF using the keyboard so it was more legible. Doesn't make sense. So the 2nd time around we hand wrote it.
 
I found these threads by doing a search as I had heard that they were only doing FA-10s on line. Wanted to get more information. I have been using the OLD FA-10 forms with light blue stripes/highlights and not the new one. I have done 3 in the past year and none have come back to me yet. I am assuming the OLD forms if still around are still acceptable. I have a quite a few as I would get them when ever I could here and there from different PD's over the years and saved them. I have not tried doing one on line yet. I will continue to use the old forms until they I get some kind of rejection. I was also told there is no difference between the OLD and NEW Paper form except for the color of the highlights, from blue to purple. Any comments on this are welcome. Just trying to get updated on this issue. Thanks.
 
hiker45acp said:
I found these threads by doing a search as I had heard that they were only doing FA-10s on line. Wanted to get more information. I have been using the OLD FA-10 forms with light blue stripes/highlights and not the new one. I have done 3 in the past year and none have come back to me yet. I am assuming the OLD forms if still around are still acceptable. I have a quite a few as I would get them when ever I could here and there from different PD's over the years and saved them. I have not tried doing one on line yet. I will continue to use the old forms until they I get some kind of rejection. I was also told there is no difference between the OLD and NEW Paper form except for the color of the highlights, from blue to purple. Any comments on this are welcome. Just trying to get updated on this issue. Thanks.
Click to expand...

The real paper FA-10's are still being accepted as of now. They have the old 3 part form, and now also have a new 1 part form that came out in January of this year. Either of those are still being accepted.

Only thing not being accepted is the printed PDF versions.
 
M1911 said:
He doesn't seem like a typical lawyer to me. I've had the pleasure of knowing quite a few lawyers and the ones that I have met are typically moral, upstanding principled people. Mr. Guida doesn't strike me as having any of those characteristics.
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I'll bet if you talked to guys like Langer and Cohen they would say Guida is a good guy.
 
drgrant said:
Len,

The problem arises in the respect of how can you trust someone who has been proven to make woefully inaccurate legal
opinions, among other things. Sure there is the old "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity." meme, but in this case I'm not buying it. I find it hard to believe that he is that stupid. There are people getting Fs in law school in MA somewhere that would not misinterpret things the way he does- so it's obviously intentional. (For example, who do you think approved the E-FA-10 page? I'm sure more than one person has called them out on it (likely yourself as well!) too, but they refuse to change it. )

I've seen this guy cause too many problems to believe otherwise, particularly given all the incidents that have been linked
to him, with those memos and otherwise.

I have no trouble believing what you say about the executive office appointments, I am sure he is getting orders from somewhere else.... but after a point you have to judge the character of someone that chooses to stay in that kind of a job doing those kinds of things. To suggest that kind of person might be willing to lie to your face is not that big of a stretch. Think about all the other things he is compromising just to keep his job.


-Mike
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It's funny how so many people on this board claim to know everything that goes on at EOPS and throws Guida under the bus by demeaning his character time and again.
 
rangoon said:
I'll bet if you talked to guys like Langer and Cohen they would say Guida is a good guy.
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Whether he is a good guy or not, his function in the MA State Government was for the purpose of making life and compliance with the law more difficult for lawful gun owners. If that was not his *desire* it *was* his job function. As a result, he has engendered quite a lot of ill will directed towards him. *I'm* willing to stand back a little and see how this develops, but no apology for past statements will be forthcoming [grin]

I certainly hope it develops that was just "the designated fall guy" because we could use more firearm friendly legal resources and he certainly would have inside scoop.
 
1919FAN said:
It's funny how so many people on this board claim to know everything that goes on at EOPS and throws Guida under the bus by demeaning his character time and again.
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Maybe if he would come on here and set the record straight we could all be enlightened.... instead it would appear that you and rangoon are out fluffing on his behalf. [rofl]

-Mike
 
LenS said:
I do believe that Jason is sending forms to PDs THAT REQUEST THEM . . . or if we call FRB and request forms be sent to xyz PD.

HOWEVER, what any PD does with the forms is entirely another story!! And yes, I do believe that some PDs INTENTIONALLY will not give them out, others may "round file" them when they come in from FRB (can't be bothered or "nobody tells me what to do" attitudes amongst chiefs is not foreign to me). "To protect and serve" is nothing more than a historical footnote these days when it comes to any gov't body, especially police departments, sorry to say.
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+1 to that. So many issues and problems blamed on EOPS and the FRB were actually local police issues.
 
rangoon said:
+1 to that. So many issues and problems blamed on EOPS and the FRB were actually local police issues.
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If you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Numerous PDs that always stocked FA-10s started to run dry when E-FA-10 came out... and I don't think it was the PD going "please, don't send us the forms!"

I have no doubt that some PDs were "assholic" to Jason (As Len indicates, and I think he is dead on in the case of several PDs. ) but there's no getting around the fact that the number of forms on the ground plummeted after they went to E-FA-10. Part of this was a problem squarely in his court.

Also amusing- this nostrum of "They don't have the paper forms anymore, you have to use the online system" that numerous PDs kept parroting..... do you think they all came up with that on their own? [laugh]

-Mike
 
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