How long until they stop sending the rejection letter and just start prosecuting instead? Do they have the balls to do it? Anybody know of any case history where they have prosecuted someone (successfully or not) for this FA-10 nonsense?
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Confirmed instances of .pdf/paper FA-10 form rejection by MA FRB
- Thread starter JFR2
- Start date
No and every seminar that Glidden gives he tells those attending that the courts refuse to hear civil penalty "crimes". Just forwarding that info as I have no info one way or another. BUT be aware that no database exists of District Court cases that can be readily searched outside of the individual courthouse in MA.
i printed in color too, and still got a rejection letter. upon closer inspection if you look at the bottom left corner, the .PDF states "Original Copy - Submit to Firearms Record Bureau". The form i received in the mail looked the same as the .PDF but has "Official Government Form - Not a Bill of Sale".
So they can still tell the difference even if you print in color. I was very tempeted to send my already completed form through the printer again and just add their FA # to the top right corner.... but i guess i'll play nice.
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Hmmm... That wording is new. See, §129D creates a title and by using that wording, they are trying to eliminate the connection between the FA-10 and the title that 129D creates.
I wonder how hard it would be the scan the most recent form, create a new fillable Adobe electronic form, but with a random serial number of the same format as the "official" forms?
The law specifies that the director can furnish the form blah blah blah but I don't think it delineates clearly what is or isn't allowed. I don't think they will be able to force E-FA-10 only, but they can skinflint out on the forms and accomplish the same kind of effect and get away with it.
I wouldn't expect GOAL or any other RKBA org in MA to spend time on this crap, though, particularly given that there are far more pressing issues up the chain. We still have people getting licenses clipped for doing things which aren't illegal.
-Mike
Not happening. S128A/B prosecutions are rare to begin with, and they'd have a hell of a time proving that you intended to break the law. Not to mention the fact that it might result in it backfiring on the state via a chilling effect of sorts. For example nobody is going to bother FA-10ing uncle henrys old rifles or whatever if they know they might get prosecuted for it.
-Mike
Not going to because in that thread some people are looking for actual forms. This is about rejection of the printed PDF form.
Related, but not the same- then if I merge them it will **** up JFR's post on this issue and bury it in like page 48. I'd rather just leave that old crust bucket alone...
-Mike
Lol, so basically are you spoofing the trans number and all that? Or is it just very similar to the paper they use? Are yours handwritten? My guess is that is the tip off to them... the CJIS clerk processing these probably looks to see if the paper feels a certain way and if it is handwritten and then puts it into the machine.....
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
-Mike
Lol, so basically are you spoofing the trans number and all that? Or is it just very similar to the paper they use? Are yours handwritten? My guess is that is the tip off to them... the CJIS clerk processing these probably looks to see if the paper feels a certain way and if it is handwritten and then puts it into the machine.....
That's one of the things that is so stupid about this. Apparently they would rather get a paper copy that is handwritten and hard to scan, than to get a printed version that is more legible and likely to scan correctly.
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Lol, so basically are you spoofing the trans number and all that? Or is it just very similar to the paper they use? Are yours handwritten? My guess is that is the tip off to them... the CJIS clerk processing these probably looks to see if the paper feels a certain way and if it is handwritten and then puts it into the machine.....
-Mike
Nope I leave the trans # blank. All the info is handwritten. The NCR paper I use (which is carbonlike copy paper for color production machines) looks identical to offset carbon copy paper.
Its 3 part: white, pink, yellow and I just run the 3 page FA10, staple it and presto...carbon copy ready. Just fill out sign and go.
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
That's one of the things that is so stupid about this. Apparently they would rather get a paper copy that is handwritten and hard to scan, than to get a printed version that is more legible and likely to scan correctly.
It's pretty obvious they don't care about that... their intent is obviously to make the paper form route harder to use to goad/prod people into using the E-FA-10 system.
I already know what round 2 is going to be like. CJIS is going to engage in douchebaggery where the PDs aren't getting enough paper forms, and every time someone calls for a paper form or reports a PD without paper forms, they are going to get goaded into using E-FA-10.....
-Mike
amb
NES Member
I love how the letter says that the form was being rejected for not being on a form "furnished by the DCJIS". Which is funny since my pdf came right from their web site.
I wonder what they'd think of having people photocopy the serialized forms they furnish along with the letter. If the point is to be able to figure out a paperwork trail using that number, they might actually be fine with it.
I wonder what they'd think of having people photocopy the serialized forms they furnish along with the letter. If the point is to be able to figure out a paperwork trail using that number, they might actually be fine with it.
That has been happening for months.
Not a FA-10 rejection, but a mandatory dealer report that we have to file was sent back.
When dealers sell 2 or more pistols or revolvers to an individual during five consecutive business days, we are required to fill out and file a Form 3310.4.
The Form is mandatory for sales at a dealer with Copy #1 goes to ATF's National Tracing Center, Copy #2 goes to State or Local LE Agency & Copy #3 stays at the dealer.
With a transfer last week of 5 handguns last week, Acme filled out the 3310.4 and faxed it to the ATF, mailed Copy #2 to the MA-FRB as we have done before many times. Copy #2 was returned via USPS Friday with the original envelope and a note: "Please retain for your copies. Thank you, F.R.B."
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
When dealers sell 2 or more pistols or revolvers to an individual during five consecutive business days, we are required to fill out and file a Form 3310.4.
The Form is mandatory for sales at a dealer with Copy #1 goes to ATF's National Tracing Center, Copy #2 goes to State or Local LE Agency & Copy #3 stays at the dealer.
With a transfer last week of 5 handguns last week, Acme filled out the 3310.4 and faxed it to the ATF, mailed Copy #2 to the MA-FRB as we have done before many times. Copy #2 was returned via USPS Friday with the original envelope and a note: "Please retain for your copies. Thank you, F.R.B."
Sent one in and got it back in two days. They sent one form with the number on top right with instructions to fill in and copy and send back. Went to the local PD and the women said read the notice on the wall about the E -FA10. I said it doesn't work all the time. "How many do you need?" Yes I live in a green town!
F2386
NES Member
I sent in an FA10 I had downloaded here on NES two weeks ago. It was "rejected' and sent back to me today.
It basically said-
"Dear Massachusetts License Holder:
The electronic copy or facismile of the firearms transfer record (FA-10) that you submitted to the Firearms Records Bureau (FRB) is being returned to you.
...so on and so forth... telling me I need to utilize the eFA10 or send in a serialized FA10...
You must resubmit your transaction record using one of the above approved methods within 7 days of receipt of this letter. Failure to comply with the provisions of G.L. c. 140. 128A is a criminal offense. "
They provided me with the FA10 I sent in and a serialized FA10. More hoops to jump through. Yay.
It basically said-
"Dear Massachusetts License Holder:
The electronic copy or facismile of the firearms transfer record (FA-10) that you submitted to the Firearms Records Bureau (FRB) is being returned to you.
...so on and so forth... telling me I need to utilize the eFA10 or send in a serialized FA10...
You must resubmit your transaction record using one of the above approved methods within 7 days of receipt of this letter. Failure to comply with the provisions of G.L. c. 140. 128A is a criminal offense. "
They provided me with the FA10 I sent in and a serialized FA10. More hoops to jump through. Yay.
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Who is getting these sent back to them anyhow? The seller, the buyer or the person whose return address is on the envelope?
F2386
NES Member
I would assume the seller since they are responsible for the transaction, or so I understand. I was the seller in this instance. I would hope that they could figure out where the seller resides even they they're not on the return address of the envelope.
![[angry]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/008.gif "Angry [angry]")
Did a trade on 2/11/12 with PDF. Both of us involved in the trade were sent back info. Sellers need to resubmit paperwork or use online. We both used online e file system. Fast and easy all you need is sellers PIN. The question is What date do you use? We used the original trade date! Hope that was correct?
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I would expect both parties should be made aware of the problem in a trade as there were effectively two sales. This confirms that at least one of these bounces was handled this way. Any others where a simple sale caused both to be notified?
i was the seller, and i was notified. I don't believe my buyer was notified because he didn't know about it getting bounced back to me until i told him. Luckily he lives about 20 minutes away and was available to meet within the 7 days.
I also used the original transaction date on the new form. If i didn't have possession of the firearm, then i'd want some paper trail saying i didn't have it. I don't think he ran out and held up a 7-11, but i'd rather be safe than sorry.
Got a letter a few days ago saying that my submission has not been recorded because it was not furnished by my local PD. Of course my local PD says to print one of of their website. I explained to them that is the reason it was rejected and they said come down in a few days and pick one up (doubt it will be there).
PS- I was just trying to register an out of state purchase.Is this necessary? (see below)
"It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased. " http://goal.org/newspages/FA10report.html
Why does GOAL advise against using the e-file system?
PS- I was just trying to register an out of state purchase.Is this necessary? (see below)
"It is a common myth that gun registration is mandatory in Massachusetts. In fact, there is no such law that allows any agency to create a database on the private possession of firearms. There is transfer reporting law, but that is only so the state can make sure you have the correct license for the gun you have purchased. " http://goal.org/newspages/FA10report.html
Why does GOAL advise against using the e-file system?
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So I have a good question for all on this issue. I just tried to use the E-FA-10 and it doesn't work. What PIN number do people use? I tried one I made up since I am a private party. It still doesn't work. I tried leaving it blank and it asked for a pin number. This state is really F----- Up. I also checked with 3 surrounding towns today and none of them have a FA-10 form.
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