Gold and silver prices are down

[Varmint]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/28/jim-cramer-charts-show-gold-prices-are-nearing-a-peak.html?recirc=taboolainternal

Of course Cramer is a figurehead for corporate markets but I love to read into these poopoo gold stories.

It's important to read opinions from both sides. I think the reason the mainstream financial press missed the gold rally is cause they can't acknowledge the real reason gold is up, because the world has lost faith in central banks and the financial system.

Yeah gold could go back down if something changes that story, like if the Fed stops controlling interest rates and stopped doing QE. So you just have to decide for yourself if you think that's gonna happen.

No giggles please.

 

[55_grain]

Has anybody followed the recent run of Platinum? Premiums creeped down a bit over the last couple of months, and it has become a lot more attractive.

Yes, and it boggles my mind that platinum is so much cheaper than gold - unless you're buying jewelry!
But how does one get bars/rounds/coins without starting -6.25% in the red from MA sales tax?

 

[richc]

Today silver spiked up to about $24.90 very quickly and then took a hard dive to about $23.90. it had since recovered a lot of the decline. Somebody dumped a lot quickly.

 

[enbloc]

Yes, and it boggles my mind that platinum is so much cheaper than gold - unless you're buying jewelry!
But how does one get bars/rounds/coins without starting -6.25% in the red from MA sales tax?

Buy in Hew Hampshire...???

 

[Varmint]

Yes, and it boggles my mind that platinum is so much cheaper than gold - unless you're buying jewelry!
But how does one get bars/rounds/coins without starting -6.25% in the red from MA sales tax?

Buy in lots of $1000 or more. It's getting easier to top $1000 by the day.

 

[07Mustang]

Yes, and it boggles my mind that platinum is so much cheaper than gold - unless you're buying jewelry!
But how does one get bars/rounds/coins without starting -6.25% in the red from MA sales tax?

buy $1000 or more at a time

MGL https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleIX/Chapter64H/Section6

(ll) Sales of one thousand dollars or more of (i) rare coins of numismatic value; (ii) gold or silver bullion or coins; or (iii) gold or silver tender of any nation traded and sold according to its value as precious metal. The word ''bullion'' shall not include fabricated precious metal which has been processed or manufactured for industrial, professional or artistic uses.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

buy $1000 or more at a time

MGL https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleIX/Chapter64H/Section6

(ll) Sales of one thousand dollars or more of (i) rare coins of numismatic value; (ii) gold or silver bullion or coins; or (iii) gold or silver tender of any nation traded and sold according to its value as precious metal. The word ''bullion'' shall not include fabricated precious metal which has been processed or manufactured for industrial, professional or artistic uses.

The question was about avoiding sales tax on platinum and you provided a cite regarding rare coins, gold and silver. Is there a way to legally avoid sales tax on platinum bullion or coin purchases? Ditto for Palladium.

 

[Varmint]

The question was about avoiding sales tax on platinum and you provided a cite regarding rare coins, gold and silver. Is there a way to legally avoid sales tax on platinum bullion or coin purchases? Ditto for Palladium.

Apmex and maybe others don't charge tax on Pt or Pd over $1000, though I think they're supposed to.

I just stick to gold and silver, monetary metals are a sure thing, industrial metals less so.

 

[07Mustang]

The question was about avoiding sales tax on platinum and you provided a cite regarding rare coins, gold and silver. Is there a way to legally avoid sales tax on platinum bullion or coin purchases? Ditto for Palladium.

Missed that sorry, as far as I know tax must be collected on platinum and palladium in MA. Those metals are not in any MGL that I am aware, I'm not a lawyer or accountant.

 

[Varmint]

Anyone know what happened with that weird heartbeat spike in gold and silver around 3 pm?

 

[DJBrad]

Anyone know what happened with that weird heartbeat spike in gold and silver around 3 pm?

Fed confirming near zero rates and less than ideal economic outlook compared to prepandemic levels?

 

[Varmint]

Fed confirming near zero rates and less than ideal economic outlook compared to prepandemic levels?

Thanks, forgot today was Fed-speak day. Probably algorithmic trading acting on certain words in the press release. Tomorrow's GDP report will be interesting.

It will magically beat the -34% estimate and cause a rally, which won't last cause everyone knows it's fake.

 

[smokey-seven]

and maybe others don't charge tax on Pt or Pd over $1000, though I think they're supposed to.

Numismatic Pt and Pd coins are non taxable if over $1K. Pt and Pd Bullion is, regardless of over $1K or not. I just looked around and there is not much Pt coinage available. It's mostly out of stock. I did find some Pt Aussie coins.


2020 1 oz Australian Platinum Kangaroo Coin (BU) As Low As: $1,015.51 on JM

 

[Varmint]

Numismatic Pt and Pd coins are non taxable if over $1K. Pt and Pd Bullion is, regardless of over $1K or not. I just looked around and there is not much Pt coinage available. It's mostly out of stock. I did find some Pt Aussie coins.


2020 1 oz Australian Platinum Kangaroo Coin (BU) As Low As: $1,015.51 on JM

Apmex isn't charging tax on Pt bars over $1k either but they probably don't know the laws. There are several Pt coins on their EBay site.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Apmex and maybe others don't charge tax on Pt or Pd over $1000, though I think they're supposed to.

I just stick to gold and silver, monetary metals are a sure thing, industrial metals less so.

The problem occurs with "investment quantities" (I'm talking $100K and above, not above the reach of many here on NES). You are required to pay use tax if the out of state vendor does not collect sales tax. Nobody does it? Sure, fine. That's what Kozlowski of Tyco thought when he went to NH to buy pricey artwork then moved it to his NYC place without paying the NY state and city sales tax. What is ignored at smaller dollar amounts becomes a prosecutable crime when the numbers get big.

Ditto for selling non-reportable metals and forgetting to declare the gain to pay the federal and state tax. Probably not an issue if you hand over a few eagles or buffaloes to Iggy and Ziggy and the corner goldorium, but try forgetting to declare that $100K sale to a brokerage house, or even to an individual and you're risking tax evasion charges.

 

[07Mustang]

The problem occurs with "investment quantities" (I'm talking $100K and above, not above the reach of many here on NES). You are required to pay use tax if the out of state vendor does not collect sales tax. Nobody does it? Sure, fine. That's what Kozlowski of Tyco thought when he went to NH to buy pricey artwork then moved it to his NYC place without paying the NY state and city sales tax. What is ignored at smaller dollar amounts becomes a prosecutable crime when the numbers get big.

Ditto for selling non-reportable metals and forgetting to declare the gain to pay the federal and state tax. Probably not an issue if you hand over a few eagles or buffaloes to Iggy and Ziggy and the corner goldorium, but try forgetting to declare that $100K sale to a brokerage house, or even to an individual and you're risking tax evasion charges.

Yep that is above my play area, 1099's etc come flying out when you are in that territory. Heck the first time I when to Belmont Park 40 years ago I was taught by much smarter horse players was, if you want to bet $100 on a horse make it 50 $2 tickets. (now you can make it 100 $1 tickets)

 

[DJBrad]

Looks like the AU and AG train is back on track after today’s slowdown. Back to your regularly scheduled upside trending.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Yep that is above my play area, 1099's etc come flying out when you are in that territory. Heck the first time I when to Belmont Park 40 years ago I was taught by much smarter horse players was, if you want to bet $100 on a horse make it 50 $2 tickets. (now you can make it 100 $1 tickets)

Only for certain types of gold and silver - many such as Eagles and Buffalos are exempt from the 1099-B requirement.

 

[Varmint]

Looks like the AU and AG train is back on track after today’s slowdown. Back to your regularly scheduled upside trending.

They are behaving like the general stock market in which every dip gets bought so you never get that healthy correction everyone says is overdue.

Watch miners to see if they participate because the metal tends to follow the miners.

 

[smokey-seven]

but try forgetting to declare that $100K sale to a brokerage house, or even to an individual and you're risking tax evasion charges.

Yea I got a surprise 1099 for over a 10K sale. It was bullion and not eagles. They have your name and address due to the ID requirement on a sale.

Only for certain types of gold and silver - many such as Eagles and Buffalos are exempt from the 1099-B requirement.

Could you site the law that says that? I am going to move a bunch in the future. Ampex says more than 1K$ sale of eagles to them is an IRS reportable incident. Well, they don't mention Eagles. But I need a cite and not a guess.

Tax Information on Gold & Silver Buying | 1099-B IRS

Is Gold taxable? Not when purchased from APMEX in the USA. What is a 1099-B IRS Form? The 1099-B IRS form is used to report any proceeds paid to non-corporate seller to the IRS. When is 1099-B filed? Dealers file it when a customer sells the minimum quantity of any Precious Metals product.

www.apmex.com

 

[DJBrad]

December Comex punched above at $2005.40 overnight. Big Tech kinda flat after big time earnings. Looks like people are seeing the futility.

 

[enbloc]

Looks like the AU and AG train is back on track after today’s slowdown. Back to your regularly scheduled upside trending.

Don't overlook that this may be the new "basement" cost for the metals. $22-$25 may be the new "$11-$13" for a troy oz. of argentum...

 

[samandglove1]

Don't overlook that this may be the new "basement" cost for the metals. $22-$25 may be the new "$11-$13" for a troy oz. of argentum...

Did you say Argentum?

 

[richc]

The question was about avoiding sales tax on platinum and you provided a cite regarding rare coins, gold and silver. Is there a way to legally avoid sales tax on platinum bullion or coin purchases? Ditto for Palladium.

For fun I went to eBay and searched for Platinum bullion. Liberty Coin had numerous. I added one to the cart with a cost of over $1000 and upon checkout there was no sales tax added.

I did the same for a smaller platinum coin under $1000, same vendor, and it did add sales tax at checkout.

So it appears this vendor is recognizing the $1000 limit on MA sales tax for Platinum as well.

Certainly YMMV...

 

[richc]

Prices recovered nicely today.

 

[not new guy]

For fun I went to eBay and searched for Platinum bullion. Liberty Coin had numerous. I added one to the cart with a cost of over $1000 and upon checkout there was no sales tax added.

I did the same for a smaller platinum coin under $1000, same vendor, and it did add sales tax at checkout.

So it appears this vendor is recognizing the $1000 limit on MA sales tax for Platinum as well.

Certainly YMMV...

Apmex wants $75 tax on a platinum eagle. Other ebay sellers (besides Liberty) aren't charging the tax either...

 

[not new guy]

Anybody have any views on buying platinum, sort of as an inflation hedge similar to gold? I hadn’t looked at the spot price in about 12 years, when it was up around gold, so now it looks pretty reasonable.

 

[richc]

Anybody have any views on buying platinum, sort of as an inflation hedge similar to gold? I hadn’t looked at the spot price in about 12 years, when it was up around gold, so now it looks pretty reasonable.

Platinum was historically used for catalytic converters. Over the years, however, scientists have found clever ways to reduce the amount of platinum required to help reduce the cost. Decreased demand, decreased prices.

It's still used in jewelry. And some other industrial applications.

Thing is platinum is scarcer than gold or silver. I'm going by memory here but IIRC platinum production each year is 1/10th or so that of gold. So it is rarer.

Where the price is going... no idea. It has moved up about the same percentage as gold over the past 30 days, about 11%, but silver is up about 35% during the same period.

 

[smokey-seven]

Missed that sorry, as far as I know tax must be collected on platinum and palladium in MA

Technically, NUMISMATIC PT coins are non state taxable over 1K. I don't know of palladium coins.

So it appears this vendor is recognizing the $1000 limit on MA sales tax for Platinum as well.

To the best of my knowledge, the vendor is out of the loop on Ebay state taxes and Ebay is the one charging.

 

[Varmint]

Gold and silver still refuse to correct - that has happened in the past, gold going up for years with no real pullbacks. Markets stopped behaving normally when the Fed stopped all semblance of self control.