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Good guns vs bad guns

Shotgun Scully

Shotgun Scully

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Ok. So I had a great day at the range today with a buddy and 400-500 rnds.
I brought a Jericho 941, custom 1911 and Mp45c with competition trigger.
He showed up with his Sig P250 and Lc9s.

Shooting was awesome and the Jericho won the day for rnds fired next to the 1911(not really fair because I tenderly retired the 1911 early in the shoot.). M&P came in third and Lc9s fourth.
This rating is just based on rnds fired as being indicative “most fun to shoot”.

First I have to say that the Jericho is awesome and easy to shoot. But the biggest impression I had from the day was that the SIG P250 may be the biggest piece of garbage I ever encountered.

Thoughts if you are inclined
 
Did the p250 come in 5th? Malfunction that couldn't be field repaired??
 
Sig is utter garbage right now - major malfunctions.

That said, thumbs up on the Jericho. I've heard nothing but good things about them. My buddy is about to pick one up, can't wait to try it.
 
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I owned a P250 right around when they first came out (2007/2008 or so). Multiples FTE issues (mostly stovepiping; not a limp wristlng issue). Ended up trading it back to the dealer I bought it from within a year. I own many other Sigs so the experience hasn't soured me on the brand but it has created some skepticism in my mind about the P320 (I do realize they are different platforms)
 
I am definitely a black sheep when it comes to the 250. You cannot compare it to a single-action competition trigger. The purpose of the trigger is double-action only. It's semi-auto revolver. I helped me immensely develop my trigger control. I know the experts will say the 250 is shit, but that's because you already have your trigger discipline developed. I love shooting it. Super accurate and quality gun. And affordable when it was produced.
 
SKumar said:
I am definitely a black sheep when it comes to the 250. You cannot compare it to a single-action competition trigger. The purpose of the trigger is double-action only. It's semi-auto revolver. I helped me immensely develop my trigger control. I know the experts will say the 250 is shit, but that's because you already have your trigger discipline developed. I love shooting it. Super accurate and quality gun. And affordable when it was produced.
Click to expand...
That's like saying that it's great that the 1911 is so unreliable because it lets you practice clearing malfunctions.
 
kalash said:
That's like saying that it's great that the 1911 is so unreliable because it lets you practice clearing malfunctions.
Click to expand...
No. I just don't see what's inherently "bad" about it. It's advertised at DAO and that's exactly what it does (and frankly a very smooth DAO). Just my opinion.
 
SKumar said:
No. I just don't see what's inherently "bad" about it. It's advertised at DAO and that's exactly what it does (and frankly a very smooth DAO). Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

Your right the modularity was cool when I first saw them. I'd never buy one, but I do own a kahr so same principal. Funny though I won't buy a 320 because they are the same gun with a better trigger and everyone slobs Sig's knob over them for offering the same gun with a different trigger.
 
TomMontana said:
It reads like your buddy showed up at the range with whatever was in his pockets or car. Kinda makes the decision easier. "Yeah, let's just shoot your guns, that you'll have to clean and I won't help..." LOL.
Click to expand...

FIFY
 
I don’t know that I’ve ever owned or fired any “bad” guns, but sometimes quality shows:

I had a Walther P22 that I sold last year. It was accurate enough to be fun, but only cycled minimags with any reliability. I also had an SR45 that didn’t quite work right. Never figured out why so I got rid of it.

Other guns I have spent time with start to set themselves apart: a couple 9mm glocks, a SW 1911, Walther PPK.

I’ve never shot any REALLY nice guns so I can’t comment on whatever the next step up is.
 
SKumar said:
I am definitely a black sheep when it comes to the 250. You cannot compare it to a single-action competition trigger. The purpose of the trigger is double-action only. It's semi-auto revolver. I helped me immensely develop my trigger control. I know the experts will say the 250 is shit, but that's because you already have your trigger discipline developed. I love shooting it. Super accurate and quality gun. And affordable when it was produced.
Click to expand...

The free state DAO trigger on the 250 is still worse than any ruger or Smith I've ever fired....

-Mike
 
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kalash said:
Sig is utter garbage right now - major malfunctions.

That said, thumbs up on the Jericho. I've heard nothing but good things about them. My buddy is about to pick one up, can't wait to try it.
Click to expand...

No malfunctions with my 320 yesterday!
 
kalash said:
Sig is utter garbage right now - major malfunctions.
Click to expand...

The Legion SAO I just bought works great, although one of the mags, the floorplate blew off. [rofl]

I have two P320s that have to be sent back for recall work though. That pisses me off. At least they otherwise worked right from the
factory.

I'm pretty discriminatory about their products I would touch though.

-Mike
 
Between the 320 that goes off when dropped and MAC's recent experience with the 365, new models seem to be skipping a step (or ten) in the QA process. Older models may very well still be fine, idk. Don't get me wrong, every company runs into issues sometimes, including Glock, for example, but at the moment it's Sig that's having major issues.
 
kalash said:
Between the 320 that goes off when dropped and MAC's recent experience with the 365, new models seem to be skipping a step (or ten) in the QA process. Older models may very well still be fine, idk. Don't get me wrong, every company runs into issues sometimes, including Glock, for example, but at the moment it's Sig that's having major issues.
Click to expand...

Sig, Glock, Smith have all been having major QC issues since Sandy Hook. A lot of the guns have been just junk. Smith has been pretty filthy, lmao. Although Glock at least attempts to fix stuff and right the ship every time they release a new model... they've had a few debacles of their own.
 
I'm curious to know how the trigger upgrade for the 320 has worked out for those that have sent their pistols back to sig. Ive been sitting on the fence with mine because I really like the trigger break and how it shoots right now. While I dont want anyone hurt if I was to drop it, I also dont want a safe gun with a crappy trigger sent back to me.

Ive also kicked around the idea of installing an Apex trigger to remedy the drop issue. Anyone know if an aftermarket trigger would void the warranty?
 
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"It's DAO only" Did you not know that going in? It's not the gun's fault that you don't know the gun your shooting before hand. That'd be like me trashing an Thompson for being a sub machine gun. Don't like DOA don't shoot DOA. Same with the trigger gripe. I was expecting quality issues, or a large amount of misfires and stove pipe complaints. Something that actually makes the gun bad. But this is just preference based complaints entirely.
 
Friend of mine had a p250. One of the first handguns I ever fired next to a Glock 19 and a shield 9mm. Good Lord what a pile of crap. I put like 5 rounds down range and never picked it up again...

Fast forward a few years, I've owned many many handguns and have fired many more. Of all I've owned; CZ, Jericho, tanfoglio, canik, Glock, and EAA have far surpassed any sig Ive touched other than the p365 and the 1911 STX. The p365 is a work of art, once they get their head out of their ass and fix the issues with it. It's a phenomenal design. Anyhow, I'm a trigger snob. A crisp, smooth trigger is what makes me happy, light weight is over course a plus. Not a long crusty trigger like s&w or some rugers.. my CZ tactical sports orange takes the cake for best trigger and most accurate. The CZ p07 I own has a heavy long DA pull, but it is smooth as glass. DA doesn't have to suck, but sig definitely screwed the pooch on the p250.
 
MassachussettsMosinNagant said:
"It's DAO only" Did you not know that going in? It's not the gun's fault that you don't know the gun your shooting before hand. That'd be like me trashing an Thompson for being a sub machine gun. Don't like DOA don't shoot DOA. Same with the trigger gripe. I was expecting quality issues, or a large amount of misfires and stove pipe complaints. Something that actually makes the gun bad. But this is just preference based complaints entirely.
Click to expand...

DA revolvers are generally run DAO (hell some people even cut the hammer spurs off and get rid of the cocking notch) yet the SW 686 I sold like 10 years ago has a 10x better pull than a POS P250 does. Hell the SW640 snub I had, a hammerless, was better than that crap.

It's not "just a preference thing" when the way DAO is done in the P250 is probably one of the poorest implementations I've ever seen. The pull is 100 miles long and
the way the hammer drops is nothing short of what one could describe as "unnatural and f***y". They didn't even bother to engineer any kind of mechanical advantage
in there to make the DAO pull shorter.

There's a reason you don't see gun shops ever selling those things except at steep cut rate prices. They're junk and everyone knows it.

-Mike
 
H-minus said:
I'm curious to know how the trigger upgrade for the 320 has worked out for those that have sent their pistols back to sig. Ive been sitting on the fence with mine because I really like the trigger break and how it shoots right now. While I dont want anyone hurt if I was to drop it, I also dont want a safe gun with a crappy trigger sent back to me.
Click to expand...

A guy I know who works on Sigs has told me that the post recall guns he's played with (ones that were fixed) all seem to be a little better than stock.

New P320s I've dry fired (eg, ones currently stocked in gun shops) seem to be slightly better, but it's not dramatic. The trigger is definitely different. (its even a lighter weight part).

I've also kicked around the idea of installing an Apex trigger to remedy the drop issue. Anyone know if an aftermarket trigger would void the warranty?
Click to expand...

Not something I would worry about, but I wouldn't mess with that until after you sent the gun in. Unless you're thinking of just doing that as a dodge (apparently theres some BS about how its drop safe with a flat trigger, etc, but I just assume have the whole thing fixed. )

I have two P320s and they're not getting fired again until after the repairs done. I've just been dragging ass on it because of the whole shipping business. Sig won't take
dealer-induced recall repairs and only is taking guns from users that get "authorized" and get a label, etc.

-Mike
 

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