Gun "Buybacks"

drgrant said:
You can't have a straw unless an FFL is involved in the transaction, ironically enough.
Click to expand...
Used to be true. Not any more. Byproduct of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.

18 U.S. Code § 932 - Straw purchasing of firearms
(a) Definitions.—For purposes of this section—
(1) the term “drug trafficking crime”—
(A) has the meaning given that term in section 924(c)(2); and
(B) includes a felony punishable under the law of a State for which the conduct constituting the offense would constitute a felony punishable under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or chapter 705 of title 46;
(2) the term “Federal crime of terrorism” has the meaning given that term in section 2332b(g)(5); and
(3) the term “felony” means any offense under Federal or State law punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
(b) Violation.—It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly purchase, or conspire to purchase, any firearm in or otherwise affecting interstate or foreign commerce for, on behalf of, or at the request or demand of any other person, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such other person—
(1) meets the criteria of 1 or more paragraphs of section 922(d);
(2) intends to use, carry, possess, or sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm in furtherance of a felony, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking crime; or
(3) intends to sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm to a person described in paragraph (1) or (2).
(c) Penalty.—
(1) In general.—
Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who violates subsection (b) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both.
(2) Use in felonies, crimes of terrorism, or drug trafficking crimes.—
If a violation of subsection (b) is committed knowing or with reasonable cause to believe that any firearm involved will be used to commit a felony, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking crime, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not more than 25 years.
 
ScottS said:
Used to be true. Not any more. Byproduct of the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act.

18 U.S. Code § 932 - Straw purchasing of firearms
(a) Definitions.—For purposes of this section—
(1) the term “drug trafficking crime”—
(A) has the meaning given that term in section 924(c)(2); and
(B) includes a felony punishable under the law of a State for which the conduct constituting the offense would constitute a felony punishable under the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 801 et seq.), the Controlled Substances Import and Export Act (21 U.S.C. 951 et seq.), or chapter 705 of title 46;
(2) the term “Federal crime of terrorism” has the meaning given that term in section 2332b(g)(5); and
(3) the term “felony” means any offense under Federal or State law punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year.
(b) Violation.—It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly purchase, or conspire to purchase, any firearm in or otherwise affecting interstate or foreign commerce for, on behalf of, or at the request or demand of any other person, knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such other person—
(1) meets the criteria of 1 or more paragraphs of section 922(d);
(2) intends to use, carry, possess, or sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm in furtherance of a felony, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking crime; or
(3) intends to sell or otherwise dispose of the firearm to a person described in paragraph (1) or (2).
(c) Penalty.—
(1) In general.—
Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who violates subsection (b) shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for not more than 15 years, or both.
(2) Use in felonies, crimes of terrorism, or drug trafficking crimes.—
If a violation of subsection (b) is committed knowing or with reasonable cause to believe that any firearm involved will be used to commit a felony, a Federal crime of terrorism, or a drug trafficking crime, the person shall be sentenced to a term of imprisonment of not more than 25 years.
Click to expand...
Still nowhere near as wide as the straw regs the ATF references. I'm going to make a wag that one doesn't preclude the other; for if it was that would actually constrain the conventional straw purch definition.
 
drgrant said:
Still nowhere near as wide as the straw regs the ATF references. I'm going to make a wag that one doesn't preclude the other; for if it was that would actually constrain the conventional straw purch definition.
Click to expand...
My only point was the recently added 18 USC definition of "straw purchase." It used to be prosecuted (at the Fed level) by hammering the buyer for falsely filling out a 4473, 18 USC 922 (a)(6), "It shall be unlawful...for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;" Hence the "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" campaign. It specified "from a licensed..." Now it simply specifies it's unlawful for any person to "knowingly purchase" for someone else, which would include private sales.
 
Last edited:
Still think it is stupid that a father can't buy his kid a gun for birthday or Christmas without a whole lot of trouble or paperwork. Takes all the fun out.
"Shall not be infringed"
 
Coyote33 said:
Still think it is stupid that a father can't buy his kid a gun for birthday or Christmas without a whole lot of trouble or paperwork. Takes all the fun out.
"Shall not be infringed"
Click to expand...
He can. Provided it's a gift and they live in the same state. If it's a gift, you are the actual recipient (or whatever the phrasing is, I can't be bothered to look it up) on the 4473
 
Coyote33 said:
Still think it is stupid that a father can't buy his kid a gun for birthday or Christmas without a whole lot of trouble or paperwork. Takes all the fun out.
"Shall not be infringed"
Click to expand...
Happens all the time. ATF even defines "gift:"

Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

Make sure your kid doesn't give you a check with "Glock 19 handgun" in the memo line. (See ABRAMSKI v. US)
 
ScottS said:
My only point was the recently added 18 USC definition of "straw purchase." It used to be prosecuted (at the Fed level) by hammering the buyer for falsely filling out a 4473, 18 USC 922 (a)(6), "It shall be unlawful...for any person in connection with the acquisition or attempted acquisition of any firearm or ammunition from a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, knowingly to make any false or fictitious oral or written statement or to furnish or exhibit any false, fictitious, or misrepresented identification, intended or likely to deceive such importer, manufacturer, dealer, or collector with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale or other disposition of such firearm or ammunition under the provisions of this chapter;" Hence the "Don't Lie for the Other Guy" campaign. It specified "from a licensed..." Now it simply specifies it's unlawful for any person to "knowingly purchase" for someone else, which would include private sales.
Click to expand...

As completely ineffective and infringing as that kinda stuff is, logically holds water I guess. Otherwise say in NH where a pistol permit is generally considered the gold standard for private sales, someone could intentionally buy guns for others and it almost would be legal...

NH has some law one would start to run afoul of but is related to selling to the prohibited (possibly knowingly) and doesn't have any laws relating to straw purchases or trafficking.
 
www.mlive.com

Flint will buy back guns with part of $850K Mott Foundation grant

Part of an $850,000 Charles Stewart Mott Foundation grant will help pay for a gun buy-back program in Flint -- one that’s designed to take specific types of automatic weapons out of circulation.
www.mlive.com www.mlive.com

"FLINT, MI -- Part of an $850,000 Charles Stewart Mott Foundation grant will help pay for a gun buy-back program in Flint -- one that’s designed to take specific types of automatic weapons out of circulation.

The gun bounty program had been announced by Neeley nearly two years ago, but the Mott grant will provide funding for the initiative developed by Flint police and the Detroit Crime Commission. The program will allow residents to sell specific types of automatic weapons with no questions asked."
 
MaverickNH said:
www.mlive.com

Flint will buy back guns with part of $850K Mott Foundation grant

Part of an $850,000 Charles Stewart Mott Foundation grant will help pay for a gun buy-back program in Flint -- one that’s designed to take specific types of automatic weapons out of circulation.
www.mlive.com www.mlive.com

"FLINT, MI -- Part of an $850,000 Charles Stewart Mott Foundation grant will help pay for a gun buy-back program in Flint -- one that’s designed to take specific types of automatic weapons out of circulation.

The gun bounty program had been announced by Neeley nearly two years ago, but the Mott grant will provide funding for the initiative developed by Flint police and the Detroit Crime Commission. The program will allow residents to sell specific types of automatic weapons with no questions asked."
Click to expand...
"The city announced the grant in a news release on Tuesday, July 26, and said it would also pay for an expanded cold case resolution unit, development of a witness protection program, overtime pay for police officers, and funding for the police department’s intelligence center."

My guess is there will be precious little money left for the "gun bounty" program after all those other organizations slop at the trough.
 
ScottS said:
"The city announced the grant in a news release on Tuesday, July 26, and said it would also pay for an expanded cold case resolution unit, development of a witness protection program, overtime pay for police officers, and funding for the police department’s intelligence center."

My guess is there will be precious little money left for the "gun bounty" program after all those other organizations slop at the trough.
Click to expand...
Yep - they’ll do as little as possible to report outcomes from the grant so they can ask a 2nd grant later. A gun buyback is the easy option - no crimes solved, no criminals caught, but photo-ops for a table covered with the guns “taken off the street”. Anything funding that doesn’t spend local taxpayer money is deemed manna from heaven.

Both public government and private jobs exist where most of the work is applying for grants. I took a job once where they didn’t tell me I had to bring in 10-fold my compensation in grants yearly until a few months inot the job - I resigned quickly - not what I had signed up for. I’m not knocking the business model, just chose not to do that for a living. When legislation with funding is passed, constituents have already drafted their applications to get state and federal money.
 
Mesatchornug said:
He can. Provided it's a gift and they live in the same state. If it's a gift, you are the actual recipient (or whatever the phrasing is, I can't be bothered to look it up) on the 4473
Click to expand...
ScottS said:
Happens all the time. ATF even defines "gift:"

Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

Make sure your kid doesn't give you a check with "Glock 19 handgun" in the memo line. (See ABRAMSKI v. US)
Click to expand...
Thank you both.
 
EddieCoyle said:
To anyone thinking of participating in a gun "buyback":
  1. It doesn't matter that you're turning in a worthless or non-working gun.
  2. It doesn't matter what you do with the money they give you.
  3. It doesn't matter if the "gun" you turn in was hastily made from gas pipe and framing lumber.
  4. They don't care how much they spend.
  5. They're not interested in getting guns "off the streets" because they know what they're getting was never on the streets.
  6. They do it for the "money shot" of a police chief or two standing behind a table full of scary looking guns.
  7. Their goal is to frighten the masses into voting for their anti-gun agenda.
  8. If you participate in any way, you've helped them and you're the worst kind of freedom hating skinflint.
DON'T f***ING HELP THE ANTI-GUN POLITICIANS!!!
Click to expand...
I heard a guy made a bunch of crappy "ghost guns" with his 3d printer for the purpose of punking the government costing him a few bucks per gun and turned them in for a tidy profit.
One way to get a tax refund...
 
Greatwhitewing said:
I heard a guy made a bunch of crappy "ghost guns" with his 3d printer for the purpose of punking the government costing him a few bucks per gun and turned them in for a tidy profit.
One way to get a tax refund...
Click to expand...
So how do you or he account for the irreparable harm they've done to the gun community at large by providing the antis with more bogus photos of guns that will be claimed to have been taken "off the streets"?

Do you not realize that the antis are well funded with many millions of dollars to be poured into propagandizing the public? They will never run out of money to pay out to obtain their propaganda photos, but the gun community WILL run out of the ability to fight them off as long as there are fools who gladly sell their integrity for a "few pieces of silver".
 
Greatwhitewing said:
I heard a guy made a bunch of crappy "ghost guns" with his 3d printer for the purpose of punking the government costing him a few bucks per gun and turned them in for a tidy profit.
One way to get a tax refund...
Click to expand...
He did it for publicity. There are memes elsewhere with various quotes of the city saying they are going to change the buyback rules to not take them.
So, "Not good enough to be turned in.
But good enough for a no-knock raid at O-dark thirty."



View: https://twitter.com/ModeratorGage/status/1553874315799584769/photo/1


1659718623262.png
 
Last edited:
Uzi2 said:
So how do you or he account for the irreparable harm they've done to the gun community at large by providing the antis with more bogus photos of guns that will be claimed to have been taken "off the streets"?

Do you not realize that the antis are well funded with many millions of dollars to be poured into propagandizing the public? They will never run out of money to pay out to obtain their propaganda photos, but the gun community WILL run out of the ability to fight them off as long as there are fools who gladly sell their integrity for a "few pieces of silver".
Click to expand...

Irreparable harm to the gun community? Bogus photos, so what? They show up in newspapers no one reads anymore. Let them spread their propaganda photos it achieves absolutely nothing other than in the mind of gun folks.
 
Buck F said:
Irreparable harm to the gun community? Bogus photos, so what? They show up in newspapers no one reads anymore. Let them spread their propaganda photos it achieves absolutely nothing other than in the mind of gun folks.
Click to expand...
No, those photos don't just show up in newspapers, they show up on every internet news site in the country.....those news sites are read by hundreds of millions of people, both gun proponents and gun opponents.

Google "gun buyback article images"

They have a profound effect on people who will work diligently to diminish or eliminate your ability to enjoy your gun hobby/business.
 
Uzi2 said:
So how do you or he account for the irreparable harm they've done to the gun community at large by providing the antis with more bogus photos of guns that will be claimed to have been taken "off the streets"?

Do you not realize that the antis are well funded with many millions of dollars to be poured into propagandizing the public? They will never run out of money to pay out to obtain their propaganda photos, but the gun community WILL run out of the ability to fight them off as long as there are fools who gladly sell their integrity for a "few pieces of silver".
Click to expand...
Clearly not everyone agrees with your interpretation of the events and their impact on "the gun community."

"Irreparable harm?" "Few pieces of silver?" Hyperbole much?
 

Similar threads

Gun buybacks in Canada coming?
Replies
6
Views
311
Agnotology
Agnotology
  • Poll Poll
Which gun to shoot for complete gun n00b?
2
Replies
56
Views
755
Cuz
Cuz
NY AG Limits 'Ghost Guns' At Buyback After Exploitation By 3D Printing Community
Replies
11
Views
575
namedpipes
namedpipes
gun ownership by state
Replies
25
Views
534
SS1
SS1
CT: CCDL 2025 Proposed Gun Bills
Replies
0
Views
87
sbhaven
S
Back
Top Bottom