Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo

[goodzilla]

I was thinking more in terms of trying to influence the committee writing the bill, and wondering whether that was even worthwhile to attempt?

How does this usually work, with the committee writing the bill? Is there a period available for commenting on a draft prior to a vote? I'm wondering if working through GOAL, we could document the holes in the draft bill before it leaves committee? I'd think that GOAL could facilitate the commication of gun owner's SPECIFIC concerns and reservations on a draft bill.

 

[Whutmeworry]

FID becomes discretionary just like LTC.

Donate to comm2a TODAY. This is about as much of an absolute, in-your-face violation of the U.S. and MA Constitutions as you can get, and they know it. It's obvious to me that they're banking on a change on the current make-up of SCOTUS before a challenge to this law could make it's way up to them.

 

[hv55maxx]

How does this usually work, with the committee writing the bill? Is there a period available for commenting on a draft prior to a vote? I'm wondering if working through GOAL, we could document the holes in the draft bill before it leaves committee? I'd think that GOAL could facilitate the commication of gun owner's SPECIFIC concerns and reservations on a draft bill.

Goal probably could get behind something like but you can't make a deaf donkey hear again

 

[mbullism]

Yeah, I know, sadly. It's a one party MA circlejerk with no real hope to influence, it doesn't appear they're really listening to the folks who actually try to navigate their laws.

What's even more depressing, is that while they are dry run calling the roll to see how many votes they have, they are making deals to vote one way or another on another totally unrelated bill... "you help us out on this gun thing that you can spin as compromise, safety and children, and we'll see if we can't help you out on "X" or "Y" later on...

 

[thorin]

How does this usually work, with the committee writing the bill? Is there a period available for commenting on a draft prior to a vote?

I don't really know, as this "committee-assembled" bill stuff is outside of any of my (extremely limited) experience.

I'm wondering if working through GOAL, we could document the holes in the draft bill before it leaves committee? I'd think that GOAL could facilitate the commication of gun owner's SPECIFIC concerns and reservations on a draft bill.

It is starting to sound like this bill might come out of the committee with everything already orchestrated (including rep & senate votes pre-tallied), and it may be too late by then

Found an interesting article this morning
http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x2117410283/Advocates-ready-for-new-round-of-gun-rules?zc_p=0

 

[exo]

http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x2117410283/Advocates-ready-for-new-round-of-gun-rules

Democrats in the Legislature are preparing to unveil a sweeping gun safety bill

I ****ing hate everyone in the media who signed on to this "gun safety" nonsense. "Gun control" is a non-starter in most of the country, so they're calling it "gun safety". These people wouldn't know real gun safety even if they were beaten about the head with a stack of Eddie Eagle pamphlets.

 

[FrugalFannie]

tastes like a shit sandwich

 

[Beretta92FS]

Democrats in the Legislature are preparing to unveil a sweeping gun safety bill.

I don't like the sound of that at all! The way this is going, NYC will be like a free state compared to Massachusetts.

 

[GM-GUY]

I will not submit - I will not comply - I will not obey.

 

[MA_Shooter]

Remind me again why we should stay and fight to change the minds of these crooks & derelicts?

 

[mbullism]

http://www.newburyportnews.com/local/x2117410283/Advocates-ready-for-new-round-of-gun-rules?zc_p=0

DeLeo sees an opportunity to maintain the state’s reputation as a bastion for gun control, said DeLeo’s Chief of Staff Seth Gitell.

exactly... it's not required, won't offer anything substantial... it's an "opportunity". Fail.

'course, the same article brings us this:

In the late-1990s it passed a series of gun control laws including a ban on semiautomatic weapons, strict new licensing rules, and a restriction that prevents anyone convicted of a violent crime or drug trafficking from carrying or owning a gun.

How did I miss this?

 

[drgrant]

I don't like the sound of that at all! The way this is going, NYC will be like a free state compared to Massachusetts.

No, not really. That level of douchebaggery hasn't quite reached the table.... yet. The antis would need to do the chicken dance on top of another 30 or 40 fresh, dead toddlers before they could pull something like that off.

-Mike

 

[Double Tap]

I will not submit - I will not comply - I will not obey.

I agree but when FTF transfers go the way of the do-do, this approach won't help much.

I think people may be slightly underestimating the impact of this if the AG "list" stays...which it will. I don't need anymore S&W and Ruger semiautos.

 

[Alex9661]

I agree but when FTF transfers go the way of the do-do, this approach won't help much.

I think people may be slightly underestimating the impact of this if the AG "list" stays...which it will. I don't need anymore S&W and Ruger semiautos.

That will create a situation when Mass residents are absolutely unable to acquire firearms commonly used for legal purposes all over the US. That will be something for Comm2A to look into.

 

[1903Collector]

Remind me again why we should stay and fight to change the minds of these crooks & derelicts?

+1 but you know what, if life has taught me anything it's that no matter where you go these *******s always catch up with you.

 

[PaulD]

That will create a situation when Mass residents are absolutely unable to acquire firearms commonly used for legal purposes all over the US. That will be something for Comm2A to look into.

If the legislation really has everything in it that has been listed here, there's a much more attractive target for Comm2A.

 

[Len-2A Training]

That will create a situation when Mass residents are absolutely unable to acquire firearms commonly used for legal purposes all over the US. That will be something for Comm2A to look into.

I fully agree with you, but also understand that if it were to pass and if Comm2A took a case forward, it would probably take 4-5 years before we'd see a ruling that we could live with.

 

[mattyw]

I agree but when FTF transfers go the way of the do-do, this approach won't help much.

I think people may be slightly underestimating the impact of this if the AG "list" stays...which it will. I don't need anymore S&W and Ruger semiautos.

theres always black markets, straw purchases and all the actual illegal stuff that it seems they want people to go for instead of legally acquiring firearms

 

[drgrant]

I agree but when FTF transfers go the way of the do-do, this approach won't help much.

I think people may be slightly underestimating the impact of this if the AG "list" stays...which it will. I don't need anymore S&W and Ruger semiautos.

Yawn. There is always a way around the BS.

-Mike

 

[Coyote33]

you're willing to trade and submit to nonsensical regulations to get back some of the nonsensical regulations they already passed?

also, I fail to see how ridding class A LTC's of restrictions is automatically a good thing when they can still arbitrarily deny you the licence all together

"well I would give you a class A restricted, but I can't restrict. soooooo no class A for you"

When put like that, no. What I was getting at was the way they said it was a "compromise", yet it was totally lopsided. I was just attempting to make it correct within the context of the proposed bills, not the entire set of MGL's.

lol... "accept", "submit", "compromise", "trade", "willing".... you all are talking as if you have any say in it. The only ones that have any bargaining position have ulterior motives (see "appease", "positioning", "stance", "appearance"..."re-elect")...

ugh.

It's those in power arguing over how many fairies will fit on the head of a pin...

So, what are you running for, or who are you supporting?

I've participated in a couple of these already with my rep, and she has been very receptive to our concerns. But I know that in the MA legislature, what the speaker wants, the speaker gets, and going against his will can be difficult and have repercussions for any individual rep. I was thinking more in terms of trying to influence the committee writing the bill, and wondering whether that was even worthwhile to attempt? I guess I'm going to write them anyway even though I might be wasting my time. It would be cool if we could deluge them like we did last year. It seems like we have a chance to play offense now before we get to defense.

I'm not happy at all with the idea of class B and restrictions going away as being a "compromise". Apologies to those folks stuck with restrictions or B-rammed, but the vast majority of towns outside the Boston area in this state issue A's unrestricted, and there are hardly any class B licenses anyway. I also think that if doing away with restrictions is in the bill, pols from the cities are going to raise hell and that part might get stripped out in an amendment, and we end up with no gains and only losses.

Maybe the speaker is playing chess and the bill will be designed to have enough 'poison pill' parts on both sides so that it will never pass and the legislature can point to it and say "hey, we tried to compromise"

Of course it is worthwhile, but make sure you contact the right people with the right info.

I honestly think they're serially ignorant. We sit here on this forum endlessly debating and/or reminding folks what the most common interpretations of the laws are and how they interplay with eachother...for hours on end, meanwhile really it all means nothing to our lords and masters in their charge. I'm sure they come at it from the other end, considering new regulations in a vaccuum with little consideration, time, nor desire to judge the interplay with existing laws.

If 1 & 2 get passed, with no consideration for non-EOP/AG weapons in state, it'll be a very dark day.

Yeah, I know, sadly. It's a one party MA circlejerk with no real hope to influence, it doesn't appear they're really listening to the folks who actually try to navigate their laws.

They don't care about you and I. They only care about the next election.

 

[MA_Shooter]

I fully agree with you, but also understand that if it were to pass and if Comm2A took a case forward, it would probably take 4-5 years before we'd see a ruling that we could live with.

But even with a 'win' those in power still do what they want unless taken to task, which usually involves a lawsuit and more money out of our pockets.

 

[WatchCityCPA]

I fully agree with you, but also understand that if it were to pass and if Comm2A took a case forward, it would probably take 4-5 years before we'd see a ruling that we could live with.

And that's the best case scenario... Remember that the various courts composition do change, and so does their interest in ruling according to law.

Going to court is ALWAYS a huge risk...

 

[Mike S]

Here's the press release about the bill:
DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost a year and half since the deadly school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut catapulted the issue of gun violence onto the Legislature’s agenda, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to introduce new legislation aimed at curbing gun violence in Massachusetts. DeLeo plans to introduce the bill next Tuesday at 10:45 a.m. in the House Member’s Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt, who chaired the speaker’s task force on gun violence and made recommendations to the Legislature. DeLeo announced the upcoming event on Thursday evening in the midst of the second night of the Senate’s debate on the fiscal 2015 budget. - M. Murphy/SHNS

And here's how it SHOULD read:

DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost 16 years after Massachusetts passed “the nations toughest gun laws” during which time the Commonwealth has seen a tremendous spike in violent crime including a 67% increase in gun murders, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to ignore the fact that gun control legislation does not reduce crime and will instead follow the usual progressive model of blaming guns and law abiding gun owners for violent crime. DeLeo plans to introduce the feel good plan, full of nice talking points for uninformed voters next Tuesday at 10:45 AM in the House Members Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt who chaired the biased and incompetent speakers task force on “gun violence” and made recommendations to the legislature.

 

[Palladin]

Here's the press release about the bill:
DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost a year and half since the deadly school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut catapulted the issue of gun violence onto the Legislature’s agenda, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to introduce new legislation aimed at curbing gun violence in Massachusetts. DeLeo plans to introduce the bill next Tuesday at 10:45 a.m. in the House Member’s Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt, who chaired the speaker’s task force on gun violence and made recommendations to the Legislature. DeLeo announced the upcoming event on Thursday evening in the midst of the second night of the Senate’s debate on the fiscal 2015 budget. - M. Murphy/SHNS

And here's how it SHOULD read:

DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost 16 years after Massachusetts passed “the nations toughest gun laws” during which time the Commonwealth has seen a tremendous spike in violent crime including a 67% increase in gun murders, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to ignore the fact that gun control legislation does not reduce crime and will instead follow the usual progressive model of blaming guns and law abiding gun owners for violent crime. DeLeo plans to introduce the feel good plan, full of nice talking points for uninformed voters next Tuesday at 10:45 AM in the House Members Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt who chaired the biased and incompetent speakers task force on “gun violence” and made recommendations to the legislature.

got that shit straight..[sad2]

 

[1903Collector]

Damn...just as the shelves were getting stocked again!

 

[StevieP]

Here's the press release about the bill:
DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost a year and half since the deadly school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut catapulted the issue of gun violence onto the Legislature’s agenda, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to introduce new legislation aimed at curbing gun violence in Massachusetts. DeLeo plans to introduce the bill next Tuesday at 10:45 a.m. in the House Member’s Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt, who chaired the speaker’s task force on gun violence and made recommendations to the Legislature. DeLeo announced the upcoming event on Thursday evening in the midst of the second night of the Senate’s debate on the fiscal 2015 budget. - M. Murphy/SHNS

And here's how it SHOULD read:

DeLEO TO INTRODUCE GUN VIOLENCE BILL NEXT WEEK
Almost 16 years after Massachusetts passed “the nations toughest gun laws” during which time the Commonwealth has seen a tremendous spike in violent crime including a 67% increase in gun murders, House Speaker Robert DeLeo is ready to ignore the fact that gun control legislation does not reduce crime and will instead follow the usual progressive model of blaming guns and law abiding gun owners for violent crime. DeLeo plans to introduce the feel good plan, full of nice talking points for uninformed voters next Tuesday at 10:45 AM in the House Members Lounge with Public Safety Committee Chairman Harold Naughton and Northeastern University Associate Dean Jack McDevitt who chaired the biased and incompetent speakers task force on “gun violence” and made recommendations to the legislature.

I keep hearing GOAL cite stats that our gun crimes have spiked (risen 67%, etc...). What are the actual numbers? Aren't we already way below the norm? I mean, if we had only three murders before, and five after, that's a pretty big jump percentage-wise, but overall, the numbers are so miniscule as to make them meaningless. I could see if we had "Chicago-like" numbers, where a 67% anything (rise, or lessening) of the numbers really mean something.

 

[bocan3]

I'm still waiting for criminals to start obeying laws and become generally decent folk overall, Bueller... Bueller?

 

[cekim]

I keep hearing GOAL cite stats that our gun crimes have spiked (risen 67%, etc...). What are the actual numbers? Aren't we already way below the norm? I mean, if we had only three murders before, and five after, that's a pretty big jump percentage-wise, but overall, the numbers are so miniscule as to make them meaningless. I could see if we had "Chicago-like" numbers, where a 67% anything (rise, or lessening) of the numbers really mean something.

MA was below the norm already...

While the national trend has been down sharply from the peak in ~1993/94 MA has been trending up sharply, but still in small numbers.

The key point being that we had it pretty good already and the laws we passed in 1998 are causing us to regress to the mean while the rest of the nation, even while gun sales sky rocket, is getting better.

The numbers can be seen on MA's HHS pages - hold on a sec, I will dig them up...

EDIT:
http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/gov/depar...eillance/reports/violent-death-reporting.html

EDIT2: still trying to find the 1998 data - there was a more concise and stark reporting... That data is 2003-2010

EDIT3:
See here: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...nds-of-DeLeo?p=3939830&viewfull=1#post3939830

 

[W.E.C]

I will not submit - I will not comply - I will not obey.

ya, that worked out really well for the marshfield guy at the B.U. graduation.

 

[cekim]

Ok, here is some better data - it seems everytime I go back to ma.gov these numbers get harder to find .

Goal captured some of them on their site:
http://www.goal.org/truthfulstatspages/truthfulstats.html
1998: Firearm Homicide 63
http://www.goal.org/Documents/stat_pdfs/98injdths.pdf
2006: Firearm Homicide 105
2010: Firearm Homicide 118
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
AND ultimately that comes from:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/10tbl20.xls