Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo

[not new guy]

Section 18 doesn't have the FFL as a party to the transfer, they would just have to report it. Basically they make sure that FA10s are done and submitted. This appears to have been very deliberately phrased this way.

 

[TheTrueQuaid]

So was the committee asleep at the statewide hearings?

FTF sales of guns can only be done with properly licensed individuals in MA. What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Based solely on Sections 18 and 32, it's clear that part of the goal of this bill is to effectively eliminate most handgun sales within MA.

While I recently sold some handguns, in odd calibers, I am glad I didn't get rid of my Colt 1911's or other good guns, as they will be unable to be acquired now, or passed down to the kids.

 

[not new guy]

what a freaking disaster.

all guns you bought or sold since your last renewal? I don't even know how to start doing that, or breaking out which ones moved with me, or which ones I bought, or which ones my wife bought. It's nucking futs.

Is that actually in there? All I see is all guns lost or stolen since your last renewal.

 

[soloman02]

So was the committee asleep at the statewide hearings?

FTF sales of guns can only be done with properly licensed individuals in MA. What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

They weren't asleep. They just don't give a damn what you think. They also know you can't vote them out which makes it easier for them to not care how the law affects you.

 

[mattyw]

so the AG list which itself restricts the fair market on sales now gets cart blanche?

SECTION 32. [Consistency Among State Laws] Requires EOPSS to consult with AG’s office in publishing its
weapons roster and prohibits EOPSS from including on the roster, the make and model of any weapon,
the sale of which would constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice pursuant to section 131K
of chapter 140 or section 2 of chapter 93A.

so that's the reasoning behind guns the AG doesn't want sold? they constitute an unfair of deceptive trade act?

 

[MrJones79]

So was the committee asleep at the statewide hearings?

FTF sales of guns can only be done with properly licensed individuals in MA. What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

Their rationale (the 'task force') was that it was to check and make sure that the licensed individuals had not committed any disqualifying acts between the time of license issuance/renewal and the time the private sales took place.

 

[jasons]

What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

Isn't that enough?

 

[yanici]

Section 18 doesn't have the FFL as a party to the transfer, they would just have to report it. Basically they make sure that FA10s are done and submitted. This appears to have been very deliberately phrased this way.

This will keep guys like the real Eddie Coyle from being able to buy a paper sack full of guns from the trunk of a dirt bag's car. You gotta love it.

 

[not new guy]

so that's the reasoning behind guns the AG doesn't want sold? they constitute an unfair of deceptive trade act?

Pretty ****ed up, right? When called on it by someone on here in a letter they refused to explain or justify the position as doing so would amount to the giving of legal advice.

 

[Horrible]

So was the committee asleep at the statewide hearings?

FTF sales of guns can only be done with properly licensed individuals in MA. What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

Clearly only when our side spoke.

Actually a bunch of them were on their phones, checking email and what not. One guy in the audience actually called them out on that at the AIC hearing.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

Section 46 is a bunch of BS. Requiring an FFL that no longer exists to comply with said new law. Or else.
Sounds like an "Ex post facto" law.


SECTION 46. Any person who was issued a license pursuant to section 122 of chapter 140 of the General Laws that is no longer current or valid and who sold a firearm, including any rifle or shotgun, under that license any time after January 1, 1994, shall transmit or cause to transmit, within 180 days of the effective date of this act, all records of firearms sold under that license to the executive office of public safety and security and the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Whoever fails to comply with this section shall be punishable by a fine of not less than $500 and not more than $5,000; provided, however, no fine shall be assessed if the executive office of public safety determines that, upon written explanation within, a person otherwise in violation of this section cannot reasonably comply.


Looks like a certain FFL that moved to NH is now required to submit their records to Mass or be fined. Which is complete BS.

I just talked to a former FFL and when he gave up his FFL about 10 years ago he was REQUIRED by law to submit all his paperwork to the BATFE, how can he now submit it to the Office of Public Safety when BATFE has it?

 

[soam]

so the AG list which itself restricts the fair market on sales now gets cart blanche?

SECTION 32. [Consistency Among State Laws] Requires EOPSS to consult with AG’s office in publishing its
weapons roster and prohibits EOPSS from including on the roster, the make and model of any weapon,
the sale of which would constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice pursuant to section 131K
of chapter 140 or section 2 of chapter 93A.

so that's the reasoning behind guns the AG doesn't want sold? they constitute an unfair of deceptive trade act?

Yes, that's always been the rationale behind the AG regs

The Attorney General of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts promulgates 940 CMR 16.00 pursuant to authority granted to him under M.G.L. c. 93A, § 2(c). 940 CMR 16.00 defines certain unfair acts or practices but is not intended to describe all types of practices prohibited by M.G.L. c. 93A, § 2

 

[mattyw]

They weren't asleep. They just don't give a damn what you think. They also know you can't vote them out which makes it easier for them to not care how the law affects you.

this, they weren't asleep and even if they knew how face to face transfers worked, they simply don't care, it's not about cracking down on gun trafficking (plenty of laws they don't enforce on that now anyway), it's about being able to stand on stage with moms demand action and mayors against illegal guns and parents of gang members that were shot dead by unlicensed thugs and say "we closed the gunshow loophole, we care about our children!" and wait for the re-elections to roll in

 

[not new guy]

This will keep guys like the real Eddie Coyle from being able to buy a paper sack full of guns from the trunk of a dirt bag's car. You gotta love it.

Exactly. If nothing else we'll be getting 1/7th of the illegal guns off the street thanks to the facts that these types of deals are usually pretty urgent, and that so many FFLs are closed on Sundays.

 

[LoginName]

Near as I can tell, bound book entries only address acquisitions and purchases by the FFL

Firearms receipt and disposition by dealers. Except as provided in § 478.124a with respect to alternate records for the receipt and disposition of firearms by dealers, each licensed dealer shall enter into a record each receipt and disposition of firearms. In addition, before commencing or continuing a firearms business, each licensed dealer shall inventory the firearms possessed for such business and shall record same in the record required by this paragraph. The record required by this paragraph shall be maintained in bound form under the format prescribed below. The purchase or other acquisition of a firearm shall, except as provided in paragraph (g) of this section, be recorded not later than the close of the next business day following the date of such purchase or acquisition. The record shall show the date of receipt, the name and address or the name and license number of the person from whom received, the name of the manufacturer and importer (if any), the model, serial number, type, and the caliber or gauge of the firearm. The sale or other disposition of a firearm shall be recorded by the licensed dealer not later than 7 days following the date of such transaction. When such disposition is made to a nonlicensee, the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, obtained by the licensed dealer shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from the licensee's Form 4473 file and be readily available for inspection. When such disposition is made to a licensee, the commercial record of the transaction shall be retained, until the transaction is recorded, separate from other commercial documents maintained by the licensed dealer, and be readily available for inspection. The record shall show the date of the sale or other disposition of each firearm, the name and address of the person to whom the firearm is transferred, or the name and license number of the person to whom transferred if such person is a licensee, or the firearms transaction record, Form 4473, serial number if the licensed dealer transferring the firearm serially numbers the Forms 4473 and files them numerically. The format required for the record of receipt and disposition of firearms is as follows:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/27/478.125

 

[TheTrueQuaid]

So in this bill's current form I think Comm2A has some good legal challenges to bring to the SC.

Hopefully.

 

[Beretta92FS]

Regarding private sales, it appears that an FFL is now only required to facilitate the deal, that is, the transfer is to take place at the FFL and the FFL does the background check.

But that doesn't necessarily mean an end to items that's not on the roster. The FFL is supposed to facilitate the transfer, not do it. But I could be wrong.

 

[Pete85]

So was the committee asleep at the statewide hearings?

FTF sales of guns can only be done with properly licensed individuals in MA. What does this even accomplish other then making private sales a hassle....

Other than maybe a few of the reporting requirements for mental health issues, what does anything in this bill do to reduce gun violence at all? Most of this is restrictions on lawfully licensed people, aimed at reducing lawful gun ownership and not at reducing violence.

They've claimed that Massachusetts has very little gun violence to begin with. What are they hoping to accomplish with this crap bill, if it's not to further restrict the law abiding?

 

[drgrant]

so the AG list which itself restricts the fair market on sales now gets cart blanche?

SECTION 32. [Consistency Among State Laws] Requires EOPSS to consult with AG’s office in publishing its
weapons roster and prohibits EOPSS from including on the roster, the make and model of any weapon,
the sale of which would constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice pursuant to section 131K
of chapter 140 or section 2 of chapter 93A.

so that's the reasoning behind guns the AG doesn't want sold? they constitute an unfair of deceptive trade act?

I see a lot of opportunity for a huge douche-fight between the AG and EOPS here. If anything that will work to our advantage. Those two entities ****ing hate each other.

-Mike

 

[not new guy]

What are they hoping to accomplish with this crap bill, if it's not to further restrict the law abiding?

Better tracking of who has what.

 

[soam]

Regarding private sales, it appears that an FFL is now only required to facilitate the deal, that is, the transfer is to take place at the FFL and the FFL does the background check.

But that doesn't necessarily mean an end to items that's not on the roster. The FFL is supposed to facilitate the transfer, not do it. But I could be wrong.

The answer to that question will determine whether non-compliant guns double in price between now and when the law goes into effect.

 

[jasons]

I see a lot of opportunity for a huge douche-fight between the AG and EOPS here. If anything that will work to our advantage. Those two entities ****ing hate each other.

-Mike

The AG's office will basically have to tell EOPS which guns on their list "constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice," and which ones don't. Specifically. It'll be fun watching them step on their dicks over that one.

 

[mattyw]

every time I read it it makes me madder, the AG list is itself an unfair or deceptive trade act!!

 

[HARRYM]

The answer to that question will determine whether non-compliant guns double in price between now and when the law goes into effect.

Ahhhh...I haven't seen anything that says this but is there a NEW list of ADDITIONAL firearms that will be added to the "non-compliant" list????

 

[exo]

The answer to that question will determine whether non-compliant guns double in price between now and when the law goes into effect.

WTS Gen4 Glock 19, $2000.

 

[soam]

The AG's office will basically have to tell EOPS which guns on their list "constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice," and which ones don't. Specifically. It'll be fun watching them step on their dicks over that one.

Yeah. It's too bad they didn't give EOPS the big stick, then they could have just told the AG to shove it and anything on the list would be fair game. Ahh, a man can dream.

 

[drgrant]

I would be interested to see what the ATF would say about it. If a transfer done under Section 18 of the bill counts as a transaction that requires logging the gun into and out of the dealer's bound book, then it effectively eliminates the ability of private sellers to transfer non-compliant handguns within the state.

I don't see how they would have room to bitch about it, unless one of the parties to the transfer isn't present when the dealer is processing the paperwork or something. This is very "transient" thing.

The devil is also in the details of how its implemented. If EOPS says that these are private transfers then they are private transfers for purposes of MGL, ding fries are done.

-Mike

 

[Beretta92FS]

Regarding private sales, it appears that an FFL is now only required to facilitate the deal, that is, the transfer is to take place at the FFL and the FFL does the background check.

But that doesn't necessarily mean an end to items that's not on the roster. The FFL is supposed to facilitate the transfer, not do it. But I could be wrong.

It's silly to reply to my own message, but here is the text from the law:

SECTION 18. Section 128A of said chapter 140 is hereby amended by adding the following 2 sentences:- Any sale or transfer conducted pursuant to this section shall comply with section 131E and shall take place at the location of a dealer licensed pursuant to section 122, who shall transmit the information required by this section for purchases and sales to the department of criminal justice information services. A licensed dealer may charge the seller a fee not to exceed $25 for each sale or transfer submitted on behalf of the seller to the department of criminal justice information services.

​

In other words, if the FFL lists the owner as the seller on the FA10, then non-roster items can still be transferred. It's only when the FFL lists himself (the FFL entity) as the seller on the FA10 that non-roster items cannot be transferred.

 

[LoginName]

Regarding private sales, it appears that an FFL is now only required to facilitate the deal, that is, the transfer is to take place at the FFL and the FFL does the background check.

But that doesn't necessarily mean an end to items that's not on the roster. The FFL is supposed to facilitate the transfer, not do it. But I could be wrong.

If by background check, you mean NIC's, I didn't see that mentioned in the bill.

To the best of my knowledge, an FFL can not simply call up NIC's to request a proceed, deny or delay.

They must have a completed 4473 before initiating any NIC's check.

I get the impression this whole all transfers must be conducted by an FFL thing is simply to confirm that the buyer has a valid MA LTC/FID, and that the transfer is on file with the state.