Gun Violence report in the hands of DeLeo

[11_fingers]

.

 

[LoginName]

don't remember sales to out of state dealers that are legal under the law, you have to file a paper FA10 with the dealer's FFL info on it.

I'm not getting what you're saying (or you're not getting what I'm saying).

Currently, under federal law, and as long as the sale complies with MA law, and after passing a NIC's check, I can legally purchase a longarm in any state in the union (I believe the contiguous state rule no longer applies), but I still have to file an FA-10 within 7 days.

 

[mousegunfan]

Hah, exactly! And we thought $800 was bad for a G19...

You guys have this wrong. The value will drop because it will no longer be able to be sold, hence not worth the higher than free state sale cost. Would you buy something who's value will drop 50% when the bill passes.

Gen 2 Glocks will go up in value, but modern compliant ones will go down.

 

[tpm]

I'm not getting what you're saying (or you're not getting what I'm saying).

Currently, under federal law, and as long as the sale complies with MA law, and after passing a NIC's check, I can legally purchase a longarm in any state in the union (I believe the contiguous state rule no longer applies), but I still have to file an FA-10 within 7 days.

he is saying that if only dealers can file FA-10s then you will have to go thru them to transfer it to you.

 

[Ben Cartwright SASS]

I'm not getting what you're saying (or you're not getting what I'm saying).

Currently, under federal law, and as long as the sale complies with MA law, and after passing a NIC's check, I can legally purchase a longarm in any state in the union (I believe the contiguous state rule no longer applies), but I still have to file an FA-10 within 7 days.

I think I was trying to also point out that along with out of state purchases (which may now have to go through a dealer or be recorded there) if you sell any type of gun including handguns to a dealer in another state and ship it directly to them, you have to fill out a paper FA10 because the eFA10 system won't handle these transactions, so unless they change that they would still need the paper FA10's

 

[45collector]

You guys have this wrong. The value will drop because it will no longer be able to be sold, hence not worth the higher than free state sale cost. Would you buy something who's value will drop 50% when the bill passes.

Gen 2 Glocks will go up in value, but non modern compliant ones will go down. Glad I have the gen2 19.

Same here, and I like the Gen2's better than 3's and 4's anyhow.

 

[jefftk]

Section 19 makes FID cards may issue if you are deemed "suitable".

Sections 19, and 26 - which refers to LTC-A's (still may issue) - include the following

"The executive office of public safety and security, with the advice and recommendations of the
Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association and the gun control advisory board, shall promulgate rules
and regulations establishing uniform standards that specify, clarify or define what constitutes a suitable
person for the purposes of issuing a license pursuant to this paragraph. "


Recall that they also ask, in section 34, MCOPA + gun control advisory board to set criteria for basic firearms training classes.

So they are attempting to pass off accountability to these unelected groups.
Is MCOPA even an officially sanctioned (governmental) organization?

 

[MrJones79]

Hah, exactly! And we thought $800 was bad for a G19...

You guys have this wrong. The value will drop because it will no longer be able to be sold, hence not worth the higher than free state sale cost. Would you buy something who's value will drop 50% when the bill passes.

Gen 2 Glocks will go up in value, but non modern compliant ones will go down. Glad I have the gen2 19.

We are talking about the the speculation period and/or the period between the hypothetical law passes and takes effect. You may have people who really want guns like Gen 4 glocks trying to buy them before they can no longer because of AG's list. This is when you would see crazy prices as it's your 'last chance' to get one.

And value won't be definable for gen 4's and the like, because there wouldn't be a market for them anymore...they'd just be in limbo. Need an active market to determine 'value'.

 

[jefftk]

Section 26 bars firearm ownership by an "alien" in part "v"

Thought there was a recent case that decided that it was not constitutionally permissible to deny firearms ownership to lawful permanent resident aliens....

(I know....small point, but the first thing I have picked up on that has not already been stated)

I noticed that too. That is the same as the current law, so no actual change. Maybe there is a specific, and different, legal definition of "Alien". Or, maybe, they just don't know wtf they are doing, don't know the current case law, and/or don't give a shit.

 

[LoginName]

he is saying that if only dealers can file FA-10s then you will have to go thru them to transfer it to you.

I think I was trying to also point out that along with out of state purchases (which may now have to go through a dealer or be recorded there) if you sell any type of gun including handguns to a dealer in another state and ship it directly to them, you have to fill out a paper FA10 because the eFA10 system won't handle these transactions, so unless they change that they would still need the paper FA10's

The ink is barely dry on this bill and already it's turning out to be a cluster **** (surprise... surprise).

What's going to end up happening, is that rather than deal with the headaches and potential consequences, out of state FFL's will cease doing business with MA residents.

 

[GlockJock]

Every time something like this bill surfaces in this state/country, one of my first thoughts is of the bill's sponsors and supporters....
Does "Mistah Speakah" DeLeo have to worry about HIS own safety? Or does he have "protection" because of "who he is"? Does HE own a gun? Wife's family member went to school with DeLeo and knows him well, and I should find out more about this next week..
Or does he hire State House "staffers" who act as his bodyguards/personal assistants/thugs, like his neighbor, Rep. Carlo Basile??
Basile was my rep when I lived in his district, and he never EVER goes anywhere without a member of his State House "staff" in tow. He has several "personal assistants" on his (State supplied) payroll.
They're thugs who protect Basile at every turn, and travel with him everywhere. (see link below).

I know two of them (one very well) and have met a third - at the gun club where the other 2 are also members.
All - ALL - of them have....(drumroll)....active LTC-A's. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess they all have "no restrictions" next to the LTC-A on the card and
can virtually guarantee they didn't have to wait more than 40 days for their LTC-A to arrive...

Just sayin'....know what I mean, Mistah Speakah??

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio.../04/eastie_rep’s_pals_embroiled_eatery_fracas

- - - Updated - - -

What's going to end up happening, is that rather than deal with the headaches and potential consequences, out of state FFL's will cease doing business with MA residents.

this

 

[Alchemist17]

I'm not the best at breaking down and interpreting the legal jargon, so can someone shed a little light on whether or not the FFL-only transfer part would effectively make the C&R license useless for the purpose of purchasing C&R eligible guns from out-of-state? My guess is no, it won't change that, since it's not a MA FTF transfer between two licensed individuals.

ETA: Ah, LoginName beat me to it pretty much...

Registration of firearms purchased in interstate commerce requires notification, but nothing in the law specifies that it must be done on a form or forms provided by the government. Nothing in my scan of the proposed legislation covers the "registration" aspect of the laws currently in place.

 

[goodzilla]

Here's an interesting passage in the new Section 32:

The secretary may amend the roster upon his own initiative or with the advice of the gun control advisory board or the attorney general. A person may petition the secretary to place a weapon on, or remove a weapon from, the roster, subject to the provisions of this section. A person who so petitions shall give the reasons why the roster should be so amended.

So, does this statement give citizens the means to petition the AG, via the EOPSS, to explain why a certain weapon is (or is not) unfair or deceptive?!? Does this avenue exist currently, I was not aware that it did?

 

[not new guy]

We all need to start making phone calls to our reps. What's the most effective thing we can say when we call them?

Tell them you support the legislation and give them the wrong date for the vote and hope they don't figure it out.

 

[ggboy]

When I read the report it stated that the lists between the AG and EOPS be
"Made consitant". Could this mean that only the EOPS list would be relevant?
Or could it mean only the AG'S list would be? I find it difficult to believe they would
lose the EOPS list, as it is the " saftey check".
Maybe a Glock gen 4 would then be legal, thorugh a dealer?
Or am I just a dreamer?
ggboy

 

[not new guy]

Here's an interesting passage in the new Section 32:



So, does this statement give citizens the means to petition the AG, via the EOPSS, to explain why a certain weapon is (or is not) unfair or deceptive?!? Does this avenue exist currently, I was not aware that it did?

What you have quoted only requires the petitioner to explain themselves. The AG doesn't have to explain themselves, evidently.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Here's an interesting passage in the new Section 32:



So, does this statement give citizens the means to petition the AG, via the EOPSS, to explain why a certain weapon is (or is not) unfair or deceptive?!? Does this avenue exist currently, I was not aware that it did?

I don't think so.

Your existing laws are bullshit. Give me my Springfield Armory XDm please.

 

[45collector]

Registration of firearms purchased in interstate commerce requires notification, but nothing in the law specifies that it must be done on a form or forms provided by the government. Nothing in my scan of the proposed legislation covers the "registration" aspect of the laws currently in place.

I see what you're saying but remember that even C&R guns bought from out of state must be recorded on a serialized paper FA10 form or eFA10. My question would be, once this passes, would we still be able to send in paper forms marked "registration" for C&R guns shipped in from out of state sellers? (provided of course, any of us can still find individuals/ FFL's/ distributors willing to continue dealing C&R guns to MA residents. )

 

[exo]

When I read the report it stated that the lists between the AG and EOPS be
"Made consitant". Could this mean that only the EOPS list would be relevant?
Or could it mean only the AG'S list would be? I find it difficult to believe they would
lose the EOPS list, as it is the " saftey check".
Maybe a Glock gen 4 would then be legal, thorugh a dealer?
Or am I just a dreamer?
ggboy

It looks like they're trying to give us a few crumbs in this bill WRT an open ended grace period on expired licenses (so long as you applied for renewal in time), and eliminating LTC-B... but beyond that this bill is a shitfest.

 

[jefftk]

Here's an interesting passage in the new Section 32:



So, does this statement give citizens the means to petition the AG, via the EOPSS, to explain why a certain weapon is (or is not) unfair or deceptive?!? Does this avenue exist currently, I was not aware that it did?

It says you may petition them.... it doesn't say they must respond/act accordingly.

 

[jasons]

When I read the report it stated that the lists between the AG and EOPS be
"Made consitant". Could this mean that only the EOPS list would be relevant?
Or could it mean only the AG'S list would be? I find it difficult to believe they would
lose the EOPS list, as it is the " saftey check".
Maybe a Glock gen 4 would then be legal, thorugh a dealer?
Or am I just a dreamer?
ggboy

You get the worst of both lists.

SECTION 32. Section 131 ¾ of said chapter 140, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out the first, second and third paragraphs and inserting in place thereof the following 3 paragraphs:-

The secretary of public safety shall, with the advice of the gun control advisory board established pursuant to the provisions of section 131 ½ and in consultation with the attorney general, compile and publish a roster of large capacity rifles, shotguns, firearms and feeding devices, all as defined in section 121, and such weapons referred to in clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of section 123; provided, however, the make and model of any weapon, the sale of which would constitute an unfair or deceptive trade act or practice pursuant to section 131K or section 2 of chapter 93A, shall not be included on the roster.

In other words, the guns that Martha doesn't like get taken off of the EOPS list.

 

[rwl1955]

from the Globe.
*******
Under the bill, which DeLeo said he hoped could be enacted by the end of this legislative session in July, the discretion by police chiefs to issue handguns to applicants would be extended to rifles and shotguns, the state would join a national database to check the backgrounds of applicants, and all private sales of firearms would have to occur in the presence of a licensed firearms dealer.

 

[jefftk]

I just got the email from GOAL about this. It includes the summary which seems to contain some misinformation - particularly section 30 (in the summary) which refers to requiring people to send a list of their firearms upon renewal, which does not seem to be present in the actual bill.....

 

[goodzilla]

from the Globe.
*******
Under the bill, which DeLeo said he hoped could be enacted by the end of this legislative session in July, the discretion by police chiefs to issue handguns to applicants would be extended to rifles and shotguns...

Damn, I didn't even know chiefs were issuing handguns! Now they're issuing rifles and shotguns? This bill is great, thanks Boston Globe, maybe I should get a subscription!

 

[Pete85]

I think DeLeo needs a better understanding of guns. Maybe we could send him hunting Dick Cheney. That way he could learn first hand from another politician about the Second Amendment.

 

[xcom]

I'm not the best at breaking down and interpreting the legal jargon, so can someone shed a little light on whether or not the FFL-only transfer part would effectively make the C&R license useless for the purpose of purchasing C&R eligible guns from out-of-state? My guess is no, it won't change that, since it's not a MA FTF transfer between two licensed individuals.

ETA: Ah, LoginName beat me to it pretty much...

Seems to me, at first pass, that C&R FFLs as they are not licensed under the MGLs (Sec 128A) and an interstate C&R transfer would not be between persons under 131E:

"Section 131E. Any resident of the commonwealth may purchase firearms, rifles, shotguns and ammunition feeding devices from any dealer licensed under section 122, or from such person as shall be qualified under section 128A..."

Section 128A does not seem to implicate C&R Interstate transfers:

"Section 128A. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any person who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers a firearm, rifle or shotgun to a person licensed under said section one hundred and twenty-two, or to a federally licensed firearms dealer or to a federal, state or local historical society, museum or institutional collection open to the public. The provisions of section one hundred and twenty-eight shall not apply to any resident of the commonwealth who, without being licensed as provided in section one hundred and twenty-two, sells or transfers to other than a federally licensed firearms dealer or organization named above not more than four firearms, including rifles and shotguns in any one calendar year; provided, however, that the seller has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms, is an exempt person under the conditions of clauses (n), (o), (r) and (s) of the fourth paragraph of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or is permitted to transfer ownership under the conditions of section one hundred and twenty-nine D and the purchaser has, in the case of sale or transfer of a firearm, a permit to purchase issued under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty-one A and a firearm identification card issued under section one hundred and twenty-nine B, or has such permit to purchase and is an exempt person under the provisions of section one hundred and twenty-nine C, or has been issued a license to carry firearms under the provisions of section one hundred and thirty, or in the case of sale or transfer of a rifle or shotgun, the purchaser has a firearm identification card or a license to carry firearms or is an exempt person as hereinbefore stated; and provided, further, that such resident reports within seven days, in writing to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services on forms furnished by said executive director, the names and addresses of the seller and the purchaser of any such large capacity feeding device, firearm, rifle or shotgun, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle or shotgun, including its designation as a large capacity weapon, if applicable, the calibre, make and serial number and the purchaser’s license to carry firearms number, permit to purchase number and identifying number of such documentation as is used to establish exempt person status in the case of a firearm or the purchaser’s license to carry number or firearm identification card number or said document identity number, in the case of a rifle or shotgun"

I think Section 128A is the section being amended to provide for Dealer facilitating...

 

[not new guy]

I just got the email from GOAL about this. It includes the summary which seems to contain some misinformation - particularly section 30 (in the summary) which refers to requiring people to send a list of their firearms upon renewal, which does not seem to be present in the actual bill.....

Sounds like they're relying on this thread for the legal interpretation.

 

[ColdDayInHell]

Damn, I didn't even know chiefs were issuing handguns! Now they're issuing rifles and shotguns? This bill is great, thanks Boston Globe, maybe I should get a subscription!

So ****ing confused. So where are our handguns and rifles? Not that I'd shoot them. Probably microstamped and NSA chipped.

 

[xero2099]

from the Globe.
*******
Under the bill, which DeLeo said he hoped could be enacted by the end of this legislative session in July, the discretion by police chiefs to issue handguns to applicants would be extended to rifles and shotguns, the state would join a national database to check the backgrounds of applicants, and all private sales of firearms would have to occur in the presence of a licensed firearms dealer.

my LTC says I can only own bolt action rifles now...

 

[fubar]

Brain hurts ... Didi I see something about " standardizing suitability " ?

I foresee " the little people are all unsuitable . "