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How Should Doctors Talk About Gun Safety? Article from "The Doctor Weighs In"

johnnymac101

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This article is featured on the Cambridge Hospital intranet. http://thedoctorweighsin.com/doctors-talk-about-gun-safety/

MYOB is still the answer to 'do you have any guns' but the hope (for some) is for doctors to start asking different, respectful questions.
“Physicians are entitled to their own perspectives and political opinions, but to serve patients and protect them from disease and injury, it is important to counsel them in ways that are respectful, meaningful, and effective.”


Leading gun violence researchers say gun-owning physicians could play a leadership role in developing cultural competence in firearm safety counseling

Long-time gun violence researcher, Garen Wintemute, MD, MPH, who runs the Violence Prevention Research Program at the UC Davis and his emergency physician colleague from the University of Colorado, Marian Betz, MD, MPH, have written a very interesting opinion piece in the August 4, 2015 issue of JAMA. It’s titled, “Physician Counseling on Firearm Safety: A New Kind of Cultural Competence.”

In it, they call for physicians to learn how to personalize gun safety counseling based on their patients’, not their own, firearms beliefs and preferences. They say doing that starts with “developing cultural competence in firearm safety counseling.”

What is cultural competence?
The authors outline the components of cultural competence as follows:

Respect for variation among cultures
Awareness of your own beliefs and practices
Interest in learning about other cultures
Developing skills to enhance cross-cultural communication
Acknowledgement that culturally competent practices support delivery of quality health care
Why talk about cultural competence when talking about gun safety counseling?
So why talk about cultural competence when talking about gun safety counseling? Are gun owners really that different from non-gun owners? When it comes to how the two groups view guns ownership, I think (but cannot prove) that there is a significant cultural difference. Just think of the last time you got into a discussion with someone from the opposite side of the gun ownership debate. If your experience is like mine, you would probably say you were talking past each other and not really engaging in a way where either of you could learn from the other, right?

Betz and Wintemute suggest that the “gun culture” is not homogeneous, rather “…perspectives and preferences may vary based on [the] reasons for owning firearms.”

Personalizing the message
Rather than having a one-size fits all message about gun safety built off your personal belief system, the authors suggest finding out what kind of guns the patient (or spouse) has and why they have them.

That way, instead of saying “You have kids, you need to get rid of all of your guns,” you could talk to Mom about the risk to her toddler if she keeps a handgun loose in her purse and then suggest some safe alternatives, such as a holster that covers the trigger guard.

If, for example, Dad only has long runs for hunting, he could be counseled to put them in a combination gun safe when they are not in use. Or, if he says he needs a handgun for personal protection, it might be helpful to suggest getting a fingerprint operated lock box.

If the context of the counseling is a risk of suicide, a discussion of the “clear link between firearm access and elevated risk of suicide because of the high lethality of firearm suicide attempts” may be the appropriate framing.

Obviously, I am not an expert in all the different types of guns and gun safety options—and, I am certainly not interested in becoming one—but I would be willing to learn more about guns and gun-safety counseling from people more knowledgeable than myself. For example, as the authors suggest, from my gun-owning colleagues.

Physicians who own guns
Somewhere between 13% and 41% of physicians own firearms
Somewhere between 13% to 41% of physicians own firearms according to two papers cited in the article. And, importantly, the paper suggests, “physicians who own guns may be more likely than those who do not to counsel patients about firearm safety.” Rather than thinking, geez, what’s wrong with those crazy gun-packing doctors, the authors suggest these gun-owning physicians could play an important leadership role in developing cultural competence in firearm safety counseling. Now that’s an interesting take.

Call to action
The paper closes by saying that “Physicians are entitled to their own perspectives and political opinions, but to serve patients and protect them from disease and injury, it is important to counsel them in ways that are respectful, meaningful, and effective.”

Of course this is true and physicians have had to to learn to do this related to many different health-related issues that they may have found challenging, such as counseling gay men to practice safe sex during the height of the HIV epidemic or talking to heroin addicts about needle exchange. I think physicians will step up to the plate and acquire the necessary skills if they think it will help.

I, myself, like what these authors have to say And though I hope they are right, I am not yet completely convinced it will work. That being said, it is clear doctors need a different approach to firearm safety counseling than we, by and large, have employed in the past.

That’s my two cents, what’s yours?
 
" Just think of the last time you got into a discussion with someone from the opposite side of the gun ownership debate. If your experience is like mine, you would probably say you were talking past each other and not really engagin" - AGREED

"
If the context of the counseling is a risk of suicide, a discussion of the “clear link between firearm access and elevated risk of suicide because of the high lethality of firearm suicide attempts” may be the appropriate framing." - What? This isn't obvious to everyone yet? No Sh!t. We know guns are deadly. don't need an anti to tell me that. Why the eff do you think i have them.

"
Somewhere between 13% and 41% of physicians own firearms" - Thanks for narrowing that down for us....

“Physicians are entitled to their own perspectives and political opinions, but to serve patients and protect them from disease and injury, it is important to counsel them in ways that are respectful, meaningful, and effective.” - Exactly...stick to disease and injury.


"MYOB is still the answer to 'do you have any guns'" - Agreed 110%


"but the hope
(for some) is for doctors to start asking different, respectful questions." - doubt it. just another way for them to monitor and control.
 
Obviously, I am not an expert in all the different types of guns and gun safety options—and, I am certainly not interested in becoming one—but I would be willing to learn more about guns and gun-safety counseling from people more knowledgeable than myself. For example, as the authors suggest, from my gun-owning colleagues.

Obviously, you should STFU then. Another ignorant person trying to take the position (or at least promote one via sharing an article) that their opinion is educated despite openly admitting they know nothing about the topic. How narcissistic do you have to be to do that?
 
Obviously, you should STFU then. Another ignorant person trying to take the position (or at least promote one via sharing an article) that their opinion is educated despite openly admitting they know nothing about the topic. How narcissistic do you have to be to do that?


+1
 
Doctors should respect their position of authority and not abuse it talking out of turn about things with which they have no expertise.

A doctor who personally has expertise in firearms would know better than to spew the nonsense that the anti-gun AMA bafoons are spewing.

Doctors should also respect their position of authority and recognize that their involvement with politics has a horrific, murderous, genocidal track record and they should think twice, or ten times before they allow themselves to get pulled into politics because it has ended badly for all of us repeatedly.

Eugenics, phrenology, experimentation, etc... using pseudo-science supported by "credentialed" people is a fast-track to a lot of people being killed and maimed by government policy. No thanks, been there done that.
 
"Excuse me, Doc, but hospitals have accidentally killed more innocent American citizens than I have with my legal Glock, but thanks for inquiring.. and now go eff yourself. Thanks Doc."
"Hey Doc, let me ask you about your antibiotic prescription policies? Have you done your best to ensure that your patients understand the dangers of not completing a series of antibiotics or limit their over-use of antibiotics to treat symptoms of viruses? Have you been working to ensure that your patients taking opioids understand the dangers and symptoms of pain suppression addiction? I am just looking out for you and your safety... In fact everyone's safety - these are actual public health issues." [wink]
 
I don't take medical advice from prescription pill salesmen (ah sorry, doctors,) you want me to take gun advise from them now ?

what's next, marriage advice from NES ? [laugh]

Edit: I will certainly take advice if said Dr shoots and has some good shooting advise, imagine that world, having a nice gun chat with your family Dr, not one mandated with some shivery moonbat up in some office.
 
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Here's what I'd like from my doctor were she to ask about firearms ownership:

"Do you own any firearms? If so, would you like me to schedule you for annual hearing exams to make sure you're adequately protecting your hearing? I wish the AMA and the APHA would take up making suppressors more obtainable as a matter of public health policy."

Yep, that would about do it. Until then, it hasn't come up and, if it does, it will definitely get a "that's not really your concern" response.

Still, love the application of the "cultural competence" argument to a pro-firearms perspective. Will have to use that bit of social science jargon when talking with anti folks I know.
 
The "cultural competence" jargon is exactly what is needed to turn ourselves into a protected class. Calling antis "bigots" and "prejudiced" is the perfect way to either dismantle or uphold the diversity argument. Dismantle their biased views of us or accept us as having set beliefs per the United States Constitution.
 
Given the direction medical record handling is going, I don't want anything regarding my ownership of guns, regardless of my doctor's competence in that area, discussed in his office.
It's ALL none of his business.
 
They should be focusing their efforts on things they can change like medical mistakes/malpractice.
 
Obviously, you should STFU then. Another ignorant person trying to take the position (or at least promote one via sharing an article) that their opinion is educated despite openly admitting they know nothing about the topic. How narcissistic do you have to be to do that?
I'd love to know why you think you are the surgeon general today? Wait, no... I couldn't give two shits because you're a total ass hat. The OP is trying to share some info pertinent to firearms ownership and wanted some other peoples opinions on the matter. I guess since I'm and MD, by your logic I am only an educated party if I also have a degree in firearms? I don't think I need one to figure out that this is a topic trying to address risk factors associated with mental health. If you're bipolar with schizophrenia and have unlocked guns in the house, it doesn't take a MENSA level IQ to figure out that you have a recipe for disaster. Playing the narcissism card? Really? That really only applies to the geniuses on NES replying that they would never take medical advice from a doctor. I'm sure your metastatic carcinoma will resolve its self by cleaning your long guns more often. You're shaping up to be the next director of the NIH and CDC at the same time with that kind of a demeanor towards western medicine.

This thread is packed full of ignorance. While I don't support the movement to have physicians weigh in on the politics of the second amendment, it's a simple set of two questions - do you have firearms in the house? Are they locked?

Clearly people here have no understanding of why doctors ask if there are firearms in the house..... Remember how well over 50% of firearm morbidity and mortality is at the hand of suicide?
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562

This is a simple mental health question, not to be misconstrued with a physician's personal agenda on firearms ownership. Unless of course, more than the standard two question string is asked. Otherwise they are simply following STANDARD PROTOCOL set down by the licensing board. If you have a such a problem with that then maybe you should just not see the Doctor, and you can just allow yourself to wither away and die far before the median life expectancy.

Further ignorance is shown in the general belief that doctors are not firearms owners....... I can tell you right now that at MGH (The worlds #1 Hospital this year by US. News) that 90% of both the cardiac and thoracic surgical attendings (on staff surgeons) are avid firearms enthusiasts. Although more in the area of bird hunting and trap shooting, a couple of them have MA Machine Gun Cards.


For those of you that are have issues with patient doctor confidentiality, I can assure you that 10 years ago HIPPA regulation was NOTHING compared to what it is today. Just because the media sensationalizes everything these days doesn't mean it's true. For Christ sake look at all of the anti-2A media coverage there is, do you buy into that? No. So don't take some things from the media with a grain of salt but not others. You look like a jack ass.

Malpractice? Yes it's increasing at an alarming rate....why do you ask? Concurrency... why? Simple - Obummers wonderful healthcare reform. Surgeons pay scales were entirely restructured with this reform. Now in order to make the same salary they did in 2007, surgeons are tempted to run concurrent operating rooms. What does that mean? They have two patients undergoing procedures, they are only able to be in one room at a a time - this puts the shot calling in the hands of the under experienced resident or fellow, in turn more mistakes are made. This is a issue of epidemic proportion. The problem is most doctors will not deal with it because it will slash their salaries. The good and usually old school surgeons will NOT stand for this. The hotshots who couldn't care less about the long term patient outcomes do it though, and give all surgeons a bad rap. This is why you can chose your doctor, just use good judgement. It's quite easy to see which doctors give a shit and which don't. Unfortunately, medicine is a dying art. No one cares about the patients anymore, its all about the pay check now.

Just remember, the "idealogical doctor" gives up the majority of their own life and time in order to dedicate it to saving the lives of complete strangers. If that means nothing to you, then you have no soul and don't deserve medical care anyways.

/ rant
 
...
For those of you that are have issues with patient doctor confidentiality, I can assure you that 10 years ago HIPPA regulation was NOTHING compared to what it is today. Just because the media sensationalizes everything these days doesn't mean it's true. For Christ sake look at all of the anti-2A media coverage there is, do you buy into that? No. So don't take some things from the media with a grain of salt but not others. You look like a jack ass.
...

The sacrosanct HIPAA laws weren't so effective in Erie County NY, when medical records were illegally used to revoke a permit.
I have no confidence that they won't be used again that way.

Also, I have no confidence that the government-secured records won't be hacked. They haven't done such a good job recently.

This is from one jackass to another.
 
they should stfu unless they are going to talk about their last hunt, newest gun purchase or what they what for their next collectible gun.
 
set of two questions - do you have firearms in the house? Are they locked?
Both questions are unnecessary - can be addressed by statement not interrogatories.

Clearly people here have no understanding of why doctors ask if there are firearms in the house..... Remember how well over 50% of firearm morbidity and mortality is at the hand of suicide?
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562

This is a simple mental health question, not to be misconstrued with a physician's personal agenda on firearms ownership.

If an adult wants to check out, then they have every right to do so in the most effective way available.

The question of whether you have guns is not a mental health question. It is one that should be asked if there is a diagnosis that would lead one to believe self harm is likely but under no other circumstances.

Just remember, the "idealogical doctor" gives up the majority of their own life and time in order to dedicate it to saving the lives of complete strangers. If that means nothing to you, then you have no soul and don't deserve medical care anyways.

/ rant

Boohoo
I give up a large portion of my life to keeping submariners safe. Should I get a cookie for that?





Sent from my C6530 using Tapatalk
 
How Should Doctors Talk About Gun Safety?

Either:

a) Not at all

b) The same as they talk about any other "safety", in other words in generalities.

c) Hand out a flyer with safety tips from gun safety experts, and don't discuss at all.



I'd love to know why you think you are the surgeon general today? Wait, no... I couldn't give two shits because you're a total ass hat. The OP is trying to share some info pertinent to firearms ownership and wanted some other peoples opinions on the matter. I guess since I'm and MD, by your logic I am only an educated party if I also have a degree in firearms? I don't think I need one to figure out that this is a topic trying to address risk factors associated with mental health. ...

Oh, you're a "mental health doctor"? Is that psychologist or psychiatrist? I never really knew the difference, except one prescribes drugs (maybe). Thanks.
 
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I think doctors should stay out of it. Unless someone is clearly full blown dementia.
 
I recall a conversation I had with an insurance agent we had for work.
The only health related question he wanted to know was if anyone smoked.
Because obviously they are going to be able to charge you more.
(Yes I know all about smoking related illness ect., so save the lecture.)
The guy just rubbed me the wrong way for some reason anyway.
So at the end I shook his hand, and said "Thank god you didn't ask about my binge drinking, IV drug abuse or the insane amount of unprotected anal at the bath house every weekend." "As long as I don't smoke we're all good."

Point being is the reason this question is being asked is more to do with the anti gun agenda the AMA has than anything else.
Not once have I had a Doctor ask me anything like what I brought up in my fictional habits above.
So of all the potential risks you COULD have asked about , guns seem to be a recurring theme.
 
all they need to know is how to extract bullets from shooting victims. Heck, if it wasn't for shooting victims Chicago would need 64% less surgeons....
 
Absolutely!

I want my visit to the MD to be infused with politics.

I want DR. Stasi to be collecting data of all manner of potentially subversive or un-p.c. activities. And then submitting that to the massive all encompassing database known as HIPPA?
 
Maybe the question could be rephrased like
"If there are any guns in the house, are they being properly stored?"
Or, "if you want, we have some literature I can give you that has some information about how to safely store firearms in the home, along with some local classes you can take if you want to learn more"
I guess it's a tough subject no matter how you look at it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I'd love to know why you think you are the surgeon general today? Wait, no... I couldn't give two shits because you're a total ass hat. The OP is trying to share some info pertinent to firearms ownership and wanted some other peoples opinions on the matter. I guess since I'm and MD, by your logic I am only an educated party if I also have a degree in firearms? I don't think I need one to figure out that this is a topic trying to address risk factors associated with mental health. If you're bipolar with schizophrenia and have unlocked guns in the house, it doesn't take a MENSA level IQ to figure out that you have a recipe for disaster. Playing the narcissism card? Really? That really only applies to the geniuses on NES replying that they would never take medical advice from a doctor. I'm sure your metastatic carcinoma will resolve its self by cleaning your long guns more often. You're shaping up to be the next director of the NIH and CDC at the same time with that kind of a demeanor towards western medicine.

This thread is packed full of ignorance. While I don't support the movement to have physicians weigh in on the politics of the second amendment, it's a simple set of two questions - do you have firearms in the house? Are they locked?

Clearly people here have no understanding of why doctors ask if there are firearms in the house..... Remember how well over 50% of firearm morbidity and mortality is at the hand of suicide?
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562

This is a simple mental health question, not to be misconstrued with a physician's personal agenda on firearms ownership. Unless of course, more than the standard two question string is asked. Otherwise they are simply following STANDARD PROTOCOL set down by the licensing board. If you have a such a problem with that then maybe you should just not see the Doctor, and you can just allow yourself to wither away and die far before the median life expectancy.

Further ignorance is shown in the general belief that doctors are not firearms owners....... I can tell you right now that at MGH (The worlds #1 Hospital this year by US. News) that 90% of both the cardiac and thoracic surgical attendings (on staff surgeons) are avid firearms enthusiasts. Although more in the area of bird hunting and trap shooting, a couple of them have MA Machine Gun Cards.


For those of you that are have issues with patient doctor confidentiality, I can assure you that 10 years ago HIPPA regulation was NOTHING compared to what it is today. Just because the media sensationalizes everything these days doesn't mean it's true. For Christ sake look at all of the anti-2A media coverage there is, do you buy into that? No. So don't take some things from the media with a grain of salt but not others. You look like a jack ass.

Malpractice? Yes it's increasing at an alarming rate....why do you ask? Concurrency... why? Simple - Obummers wonderful healthcare reform. Surgeons pay scales were entirely restructured with this reform. Now in order to make the same salary they did in 2007, surgeons are tempted to run concurrent operating rooms. What does that mean? They have two patients undergoing procedures, they are only able to be in one room at a a time - this puts the shot calling in the hands of the under experienced resident or fellow, in turn more mistakes are made. This is a issue of epidemic proportion. The problem is most doctors will not deal with it because it will slash their salaries. The good and usually old school surgeons will NOT stand for this. The hotshots who couldn't care less about the long term patient outcomes do it though, and give all surgeons a bad rap. This is why you can chose your doctor, just use good judgement. It's quite easy to see which doctors give a shit and which don't. Unfortunately, medicine is a dying art. No one cares about the patients anymore, its all about the pay check now.

Just remember, the "idealogical doctor" gives up the majority of their own life and time in order to dedicate it to saving the lives of complete strangers. If that means nothing to you, then you have no soul and don't deserve medical care anyways.

/ rant

An MD...

All those years in school and all that debt to end up working for an insurance company.

But fear not! You will be a state emplyee soon enough!

If you are a VA doc, then apologies, thank you for your service.
 
Maybe the question could be rephrased like
"If there are any guns in the house, are they being properly stored?"
Or, "if you want, we have some literature I can give you that has some information about how to safely store firearms in the home, along with some local classes you can take if you want to learn more"
I guess it's a tough subject no matter how you look at it.

I could accept this as altruism if other topics were also addressed, such as pool safety, avoiding falls, safeguarding children from poisons, and other meaningful topics.
Absent this generalized safety concern, gun safety is just part of an agenda.
 
...
A) I guess since I'm and MD, by your logic I am only an educated party if I also have a degree in firearms?
...
B)Clearly people here have no understanding of why doctors ask if there are firearms in the house..... Remember how well over 50% of firearm morbidity and mortality is at the hand of suicide?
https://www.ucdmc.ucdavis.edu/publish/news/newsroom/9562
...
C) This is a simple mental health question...
...
D) Otherwise they are simply following STANDARD PROTOCOL set down by the licensing board. ...
...
E) For those of you that are have issues with patient doctor confidentiality, I can assure you that 10 years ago HIPPA regulation was NOTHING compared to what it is today.
...
F) Malpractice? Yes it's increasing at an alarming rate....why do you ask? Concurrency... why? ... The problem is most doctors will not deal with it because it will slash their salaries. The good and usually old school surgeons will NOT stand for this. The hotshots who couldn't care less about the long term patient outcomes do it though, and give all surgeons a bad rap. This is why you can chose your doctor, just use good judgement. It's quite easy to see which doctors give a shit and which don't. Unfortunately, medicine is a dying art. No one cares about the patients anymore, its all about the pay check now.
...
G) Just remember, the "idealogical doctor" gives up the majority of their own life and time in order to dedicate it to saving the lives of complete strangers. If that means nothing to you, then you have no soul and don't deserve medical care anyways.
...


A) Yes, if you want to dispense advice on firearms, an MD or the guidelines of the board of health are meaningless. MD's who think they help by asking those questions show their staggering ignorance on the topic of firearms.


B) Another genius who thinks that removing firearms prevents suicidal people from killing themselves. People who want to kill themselves use firearms because they are effective... if firearms are gone, there are other effective (if messier or more painful) methods.


C) Not a simple question by any means - a physician HAS NO NEED TO KNOW whether a patient has firearms. They can provide their advice to everybody. Asking that question hurts the relationship of trust between a patient and their doctor, since health information has already been used to strip people of their rights.


So seriously, how does owning firearms affect my mental health? Looking forward to hearing from you on this one, Mr. MD. Remember to quote your studies :)


D) Not my fault - just following orders. Uh-huh. Heard that one before. By the way, using it completely undermines your claim that physicians understand firearms - they are just reading from a script they do not understand.


E) If you cannot spell HIPAA, you have no clue what it says. Even if you did, you seem to pretend that laws apply to the government... whether you are lying to us or to yourself is irrelevant. The government knows laws are for the little people - they can and will get any data they want, HIPAA be damned. By asking for it, you are a government agent snooping on innocent people.


F) So you admit that malpractice is caused by MD greed (in part - we all understand there are other factors in play). Have a hard time seeing why you think this is a good thing.


G) If you'd do that as a volunteer or be severely underpaid while operating at a charity hospital, my hat would be off to you. Since MDs choose their career because they are so lucrative, you can expect gratitude when pigs fly. Every good person cares about their job - you get no special gratitude for your career choice, especially after seeming to think the world owes it to you.


A few points off for being unable to spell ideological. Or "an".


Saving lives is big business, and you are a businessman. No shame in that... but no gratitude either.


Get off your high horse, and understand that most MD's are dangerously ignorant when it comes to firearms (or weight lifting, as it happens) and they have NO business trying to educate firearms owners on firearm safety - an average firearm owner is much more educated on the topic than an average MD.
 
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