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HSC - Ipsc Rifle Match 10/27 - What to expect?

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polkasrus

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Hi -

Wondering if anyone in this forum has participated in a Harvard Sportsmens Club Rifle Match before and if so, how is the match conducted. I looked on their site but didn't see anything that suggests the format, registration, etc. I've only participated in one tactical rifle shoot before and it was in NY - but had a ton of fun and can't wait to try it again.

Thanks!
 
Harvard runs it under USPSA rules. There will be several classes depending on the configuration of your rifle. Distances are planned to be from 1 yard to 300 yards, according to the note on the USPSA Northeast Section page.
They normally have steel targets included, no green tip ammo or anything with a steel core, or even steel bullet jackets.
 
Basically from what I have been told it is Load and make ready and on the buzzer engage targets as you see them while running like you stole the rifle.

Is that close Dan S[smile]
 
Most of the courses of fire will be shot in the IPSC pits and will resemble a pistol match. The long range stuff will be shot on the 200/300 yard range and I have no idea what will done there.

As Dan S said, there will be steel and the HSC people are understandably concerned about the welfare of their targets. Be very careful of your choice of ammo; there is a lot of AP steel core out there.
 
The format is normal USPSA/IPSC rules, although we'll bend them slightly so that we can use the 1/2 size paper targets. We will have six stages. 5 of them will have varying engagement from 1 yard to 60 yards. 1 stage will include 200 and 300 yard engagement.

Round counts are unknown, but I'd guess 4 of the stages will be less than 30 rounds and 2 of them might be in the mid 40s. So I'd guess a minimum round count around 150, give or take, and bring enough extra berries for "eventualities." I'd bring 300 rounds minimum.

Registration is just good old fashioned "show up and sign up." No pre-registration required. Shooters' Meeting will be roughly 9:15 with first caps at 9:30. So if you arrive around 8:30-9:00, you'll have time to sign-up and gear-up.

I believe that we'll be naming this match as a charity benefit in celebration of the 20th anniversary of the Harvard Action Shooters. This would mean that we'll be collecting $25 (in place of the usual $20) and donating a total of $10 per shooter to charity. ... (and No, ... it ain't the "Dan Hurley .223 Ammo Fund.") Stay tuned on this issue at www.uspsa-ne.org.
 
I think there were 8" plates at 200 and large pepper poppers at 300 and they were on hit activated flashers with one of the two ROs calling out hits.
 
Dan S said:
Real close, Gary! You going to play?
Let's hope for good, warm weather!
Click to expand...

I will be there selling my raffle tickets for Paul Taylor and will shoot as many stages as my knees will take. No promise on a finish, but I will have a good time.


FOR THOSE USING WOLFE AMMO I bought some Wolf FMJ this week to try it. It has steel core and lifted with a light magnet. If that is all you use, I suggest you have some ammo already tested with a magnet for the steel stages or you may be disappointed.
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
FOR THOSE USING WOLFE AMMO I bought some Wolf FMJ this week to try it. It has steel core and lifted with a light magnet. If that is all you use, I suggest you have some ammo already tested with a magnet for the steel stages or you may be disappointed.
Click to expand...

Wow- can you tell us what kind of Wolf ammo you found this with?
 
Round Gun Shooter said:
62gr FMJ and I would check all Wolf from now on.
Click to expand...

Damn I just boght a bunch of 62gr FMJ too... 400 rounds to be precise. I'll pull a bullet and check mine too but if it's that way on yours I'm sure mine are the same. Did you try cutting the bullet in half to check it out?
 
Lugnut said:
Damn I just boght a bunch of 62gr FMJ too... 400 rounds to be precise. I'll pull a bullet and check mine too but if it's that way on yours I'm sure mine are the same. Did you try cutting the bullet in half to check it out?
Click to expand...

My understanding is they use a steel cup to hold the lead then they copper coat it.

I had someone shoot a $350 resetting plate I own at a match and put a real nice divot in AR500 steel. I no longer let my plate be used at matches and I check all of my own ammo prior to use. That is how I found the Wolf problem.
 
The Wolf 55 FMJ and 55 HP that I have are not Steel-cored (I cut them in half and nothing but lead inside - I have pic's somewhere but can't find them). However, the casing does have iron in it and will attract a magnet. This does not mean it will damage rifle grade steel - I have my own steel and it does nothing but scratch the paint.

Just because a bullet will attract a magnet does not mean it's 'steel-cored'. However if a 'magnet check' is done at the match - it will not pass. I understand the magnet check but it does not account for these false-positives.

A quote from AR15.com: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=208 regarding Wolf ammo...

"None of our ammunition is steel cored, it is illegal to have any steel cored ammunition imported, and we have all our ammunition imported. All our ammunition has lead cores, and does not spark!

Probably the only reason they think this is from a magnet test which shows the magnet sticks to the bullet, not because of a steel core like assumed, but because the jacket is a copper/steel mix, (one layer of copper on top of one layer of steel), which is why it’s called a bi-metal jacket. If the magnet didn’t stick to some calibers it’s only because the jacket was all copper instead of bi-metal. We are phasing out the all copper jackets and having only bi-metal because it’s more cost efficient."
 
MAShooter said:
The Wolf 55 FMJ and 55 HP that I have are not Steel-cored (I cut them in half and nothing but lead inside - I have pic's somewhere but can't find them). However, the casing does have iron in it and will attract a magnet. This does not mean it will damage rifle grade steel - I have my own steel and it does nothing but scratch the paint.

Just because a bullet will attract a magnet does not mean it's 'steel-cored'. However if a 'magnet check' is done at the match - it will not pass. I understand the magnet check but it does not account for these false-positives.

A quote from AR15.com: http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=208 regarding Wolf ammo...

"None of our ammunition is steel cored, it is illegal to have any steel cored ammunition imported, and we have all our ammunition imported. All our ammunition has lead cores, and does not spark!

Probably the only reason they think this is from a magnet test which shows the magnet sticks to the bullet, not because of a steel core like assumed, but because the jacket is a copper/steel mix, (one layer of copper on top of one layer of steel), which is why it’s called a bi-metal jacket. If the magnet didn’t stick to some calibers it’s only because the jacket was all copper instead of bi-metal. We are phasing out the all copper jackets and having only bi-metal because it’s more cost efficient."
Click to expand...

The last thing I would want to run down the bore of one of my AR barrels is "bimetal jacketed ammo". The chance that the copper will give way and expose the bore to the steel is too great.
 
MAShooter said:
Just because a bullet will attract a magnet does not mean it's 'steel-cored'. However if a 'magnet check' is done at the match - it will not pass. I understand the magnet check but it does not account for these false-positives.
Click to expand...

The only problem with this is I am not willing to take anyone's word on this when using my steel. If your ammo is picked up by the tip of the bullet with a magnet, you will not shoot my steel. I think that Frank feels the same way on his steel they use at the 200/300 yard stage. There are no facilities at a match or time to pull and cut bullets so the magnet has the be the way it is judged. The purpose of my post is not to defame Wolf ammo but to make sure people that show up have checked their ammo the way it will be tested at the match.

You have seen the self resetting plate I have. I wish I could figure out who it was that pocked it at the bass River match so I could send them a bill.
 
I totally understand why the magnet check is done - it's the only time-expedient way to check for steel-core and I did the same thing for our stage at the A7 3-Gun match last year to protect our steel as well. Just pointing out that the magnet check excludes more than intended. I'm not saying to not do it.
 
Our first "hidden" problem arose with S&B ammo, which we knew was not steel core. Someone sent me an e-mail and told me that it was magnetic. Sure enough, it is. S&B uses a similar manufacturing process where they form a steel jacket, pour in the lead, and copper coat the resultant projectile. So we tried S&B on AR500 steel ... and it went straight through like vodka through Paris Hilton.

Too much steel in a projectile is just too much retained energy/heat for our targets. (We even found some stuff last season that was not magnetic and random rounds could get through the steel, but what are you gonna do? Preventing all damage whatsoever is like trying to get Brittany to wear panties.)
 
Dan,
Are you going to make people stand on their feet and shoot allllllll the way to 60 yards this time. Or will rests be there?
 
Dan S said:
Dan,
Are you going to make people stand on their feet and shoot allllllll the way to 60 yards this time. Or will rests be there?
Click to expand...

4 inch plates and 1/2 size targets at 60 yards, off-hand, .... no, no, ... make that weak-hand, ... no, no, ... weak-hand only. And wait until you see the 1/2 size no-shoots that go with the 1/2 size targets. (maybe you never should have given me that fella's contact information?)
 
Gary,
It wasn't meant as an old man question, but a question from someone that CAN shoot standing at 60 yards...LOL
Dan,
4" plates and 1/2 size targets at 60 yards is fine with me....all off hand! I'm glad to have passed on Charlie Meyers' information to you. At least some showing of what rifle shooting is present on a short range is now available. I think the 1/2 targets should be used indoors for a regular match too!
Some years ago, one of the top shooters in the country made a comment on my putting head shots at 200 yards into a rifle match at the Miller Invitational. Yeah, we could use bipods then, no divisions...just run what you brung. Oh, they weren't full heads either.
 
Ooops! I keep forgetting how bad the knees are. Are they even worse when the temperature drops?
Have you tried or do you use knee braces/supports? The big guy from Mesa uses them, and Debbie James used to use one.
Debbie was Ladies World Champion a time or two, for those that don't know who she is.
 
Last edited:
Dan S said:
Ooops! I keep forgetting how bad the knees are. Are they even worse when the temperature drops?
Have you tried or do you use knee braces/supports? The big guy from Mesa uses them, and Debbie James used to use one.
Debbie was Ladies World Champion a time or two, for those that don't know who she is.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, most knee braces restrict the circulation on me. That is a result of another recently diagnosed problem and a pretty bad MC accident when I was young.

As the weather gets golder, the knees get worse. Funny, but Hand warmers in the knee pocket of 511 pants make a big difference.
 
How kosher is it to change scopes or even rifles between the 60 and 300 yard stages?
 

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