I was pulled in to a HR meeting at work due to the 2a.

crazymjb said:
Bad people are slowed down by lack of availability of certain items. If gun shops sold C4 (and there unquestionably would be a demand for C4), many more of the mass shootings or bombings in this country would have death counts well into the hundreds.

I would absolutely have an M203 on my AR and a bunch of 40mm HEDP... and that crap would undoubtedly kill people in accidents (as it does in the military) and be used in mass killings. Unlike ARs... 40mm grenades are much more devastating than non-explosive weapons.

Mike

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Click to expand...

Please, go on about all the soldiers dying in the inevitable M203 accidents. I was in the Army for 5 years, and not once did I ever hear of someone having an accident with a 203. Also, 40mm grenades need distance. You can't just plop a 40mm out of a tube and watch it go bang. It actually had to fly for a certain amount of time for it to explode. It's a very good suppressive weapon, but as far as on the offensive, I'll take a rifle. Go back to your hole.
 
To WCPA... not every law is just or logical... I never said that. Most gun laws need to he rolled back. I said some laws are reasonable to me... including traffic laws. I certainly believe in stop signs... I also believe in selective enforcement (not busting ones balls to bust their balls). Open container laws are stupid, speed limits should vary with traffic and conditions, stop signs should be yield signs in certain conditions...

Bcamos... 7 Marines were killed when a mortar went off in the tube last year, 2 or 3 eod techs in pendleton from UXO (which is a big problem on HE impact areas by the way). One of my buddies in thr army did 5 years as well, a kid he deployed with is a vegetable from when a Mk19 round went off as he was carrying an ammo can.

Yes there is an arming distance... 2 words: lowest bidder. I don't know what the hell they teach you in the army. Were you a grunt? Wanna tell me what MILITARY ranges all have in common? I sure as shit know we do things MUCH different than any civilian ranges do. Lets let a bunch of private check out guns, ammo, HE and go to town... now try that with civilians...

Mike



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Thanks for the after school special sergeant safety. Where were you for that New Hampshire family last year and the fireworks? Someone should have told them only government employees are qualified to shop at the fireworks stand.
 
Fireworks and HE/grenades are very different. Again showing your ignorance. Keep it coming though. You guys know everything.

Mike

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You are the only one claiming to know everything, including what laws should apply to everyone. All you've proved is that your arguments consist of double standards, and are completely arbitrary. You have an excuse for everything and punt the ball claiming you are too important to discuss it further and that everyone but you is ignorant.

Plain and simple, you have no argument, just feelings you can't properly articulate. Very similar to an anti-gun liberal to be plain.
 
Nope. Ive made valid comparisons between the danger and power of certain weapons vs firearms, some of which is based off experience and education... you've just chosen to ignore them.

I dont see the double standards either.

Mike

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No, you have drawn an arbitrary line of demarcation as to what is acceptably dangerous and/or powerful. Again, you defer to calling others ignorant because you are incapable of articulating what leads you to these enumerations.

You have no argument, just feelings, like a liberal who thinks 7 rounds is appreciably less dangerous than 10, or 11, or 31.
 
Except I havent. Killing many people while not present indiscriminately, or being able to kill many people simply due to negligence is not something generally consistent of the features of a firearm...

Firearms and other weapons often are inherently different... where as a banned AR15 and a non banned mini14 are not. Same goes for mags.

I also never specified a specific line just an extreme. I said I do believe a line exists...

Your argument has resorted to calling me "liberal" with your fingers in your ears, I think you've got something.

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Lots of legal things can kill large numbers of people indiscriminately without the perp present, where are you then sergeant safety? Should we make illegal pressure cookers and black powder? Maybe certain fertilizers and diesel fuel?

You cannot define what should and should not be legal, only make an arbitrary list of things you personally consider too dangerous without any definitive basis behind that.

Your argument has extended beyond firearms, so do not pretend to bring it back to that, you want full dictatorial control. Based on my recent lurking, you also appear to be in favor of NFA or at the very least against full auto items. Come up to the county someday, you can use my slidefire if you're afraid of full auto without a drill instructor to wipe your behind and tell you it will be ok.

And to be clear I haven't called you a liberal, I only compared you to one. It would seem to me that calling you a liberal would be a disservice to liberals, at least they pretend to have consistency to their arguments whereas you just flap in the breeze.
 
Again, you fail to understand that if those pressure cookers were similarly sized military grade explosives we'd be looking at 100s dead.

I have no desire to be a dictator, but I do desire to be safe in my society. That includes saying some things are too dangerous for one person to posess in an unregulated fashion.

I've spent a fair ammount of my time advlcating for the repeal of gun laws and blocking future gun laws and have given testimony before the JCPS on more than one occasion, and will continue to do so. I've gotten literally many HUNDREDS of students involved in shooting sports and at least introduced them to the concept of being politically active and challenging restrictions on firearms ownership, in only a couple years. In the same time, Ive started (with another NESer) one of the fastest growing clubs at UMass with membership close to 300 people related to firearms training and gun rights advocacy. I've gotten dozens of students licensed. Ive even had the honor of calling the governor out to his face on the radio. So please, tell me what you've done for 2A today? Are you as one upped by liberals as me.

I know, I know... stop feeding the troll.

ETA... just noticed the drill instructor comment. I'm not afraid of your slidefire stock... I just think its stupid. I really havent done anything too impressive in the military, but I have fired more ammo than you (or I) will ever be able to afford out of real machineguns, and for the last few years have supervised millions more being fired, and done a large ammount of instruction on machinegunnery to junior Marines and foreign military's. Thanks for the offer though buddy.

Mike

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By logic, the individual viciously advocating gun control and firmly against freedom on a 2A forum is the troll. For the first time in this thread you are right, as I will quit feeding that troll.

Now I can go to bed worrying that you have apostles likely in favor of "reasonable restrictions", I'm just thankful you're just another leftist flatlander.
 
I love your talking points and insults. Glad you still get talk radio in your bunker.

Where was I viciously advocating gun control again? Was it when I went to the statehouse (and dragged 3 friends in tow) and gave written and verbal testimony against any further restrictions on firearms and advocated rolling back gun laws? What were you doing that day? Maybe it was the multiple times my attempts to set up an open carry protest in MA flopped?

Ive literally just shared my personal thoughts on NES on where I believe regulation to be valid... Ill likely spend the rest of my life trying to undo gun laws, but Im glad you see me as a threat since I dont find it practical or useful to go begging for grenades, gas, and c4.

Ive posted on NES that sometimes government regulation is OK... oh no, I'm the boogie man. I feel bad for your blood pressure homie.

Mike

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crazymjb said:
Again, you fail to understand that if those pressure cookers were similarly sized military grade explosives we'd be looking at 100s dead.
Click to expand...

There is no way in hell a device that size (that could be carried by one guy) could kill "hundreds" of people, unless it was a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon... and even in these cases it would take a lot of work to weaponize something to that level of killing power. Something non government durkas and similar types of people are not going to be able to pull off. I see what your point is but you really need to back off the hyperbole and BS if you want to sell your argument. Now you're probably going to tell me "well, if they dropped black market rockeye cluster bombs from the F16 they bought on the marathon..." [rolleyes]

Case in point... the durkas in israel and the mideast have all the high explosives they could ever want... and their attacks never kill that many people in one device/incident. Even some of the big vehicle IEDs they make have never claimed that many lives at once. Are the devices deadly and devastating? Yes... but they generally don't kill "hundreds" of people, at once. Stop exaggerating the facts to try to make your case look better, it's not helping you.

-Mike
 
So lets say they killed 50... thats 10 fold more than they could with foreworks and pressure cookers.

Look to columbine... same thing. Their failed bombs killed nobody. Easily dozens more.

Look at every major shooting of a crowded area. Toss in some grenades, what happens?

Mike

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crazymjb said:
So lets say they killed 50... thats 10 fold more than they could with foreworks and pressure cookers.

Look to columbine... same thing. Their failed bombs killed nobody. Easily dozens more.

Look at every major shooting of a crowded area. Toss in some grenades, what happens?

Mike

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Click to expand...

The issue with your argument is that it's based upon a foundation that validates granting government the authority to decide where the line should lie in the first place. Once they have that power and authority you've lost that freedom forever, and your rights become subject to political whims. To me, and many others, there isn't any realistic level of achieved public safety that makes it worth it. Not one life, not 50 lives, not a thousand lives. The first step toward fixing the problem or runaway government regulation, if it is to be fixed, is to reject the premise of them having the authority. What you accept and tolerate you validate and all that.
 
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crazymjb said:
Plenty here are opposed to DUI laws... not a crime until they kill someone in their mind.

I disagree. Some laws (and public attitudes) HELP to keep people safe.

Mike
Click to expand...


great point! no one drinks and drives thanks to the law

- - - Updated - - -

new guy said:
The issue with your argument is that it's based upon a foundation that validates granting government the authority to decide where the line should lie in the first place. Once they have that power and authority you've lost that freedom forever, and your rights become subject to political whims. To me, and many others, there isn't any realistic level of achieved public safety that makes it worth it. Not one life, not 50 lives, not a thousand lives. The first step toward fixing the problem or runaway government regulation, if it is to be fixed, is to reject the premise of them having the authority. What you accept and tolerate you validate and all that.
Click to expand...

I agree with this 100%
 
crazymjb said:
It just hasn't happened. We KNOW that available tools are used to committ mass murder, usually those perceived to be most dangerous. Explosives often flop. Gas is occasionally tried but rarely successful. We know what happens when explosives and gas are successful, and in those cases they are generally acquired due to destabilization in an area. The results are devastating.

99.9% was pulled out of my ass, but if you added up how many times Sarin has been synthesized and used vs Explosives, firearms, chlorine and mustard gas, the numbers would probably be less than 1/1000.

I'll make this easier... You have no problem with Sarin being sold at home depot in 55 gallon drums to anyone who wants it?

Mike
Click to expand...


The free market would make Sarin hard to get. Home depot would not stock sarin since it would not be in great demand. Special order only.
 
drgrant said:
There is no way in hell a device that size (that could be carried by one guy) could kill "hundreds" of people, unless it was a nuclear, biological, or chemical weapon... and even in these cases it would take a lot of work to weaponize something to that level of killing power. Something non government durkas and similar types of people are not going to be able to pull off. I see what your point is but you really need to back off the hyperbole and BS if you want to sell your argument. Now you're probably going to tell me "well, if they dropped black market rockeye cluster bombs from the F16 they bought on the marathon..." [rolleyes]

Case in point... the durkas in israel and the mideast have all the high explosives they could ever want... and their attacks never kill that many people in one device/incident. Even some of the big vehicle IEDs they make have never claimed that many lives at once. Are the devices deadly and devastating? Yes... but they generally don't kill "hundreds" of people, at once. Stop exaggerating the facts to try to make your case look better, it's not helping you.

-Mike
Click to expand...


Good advice. When you're in a hole, stop digging.
 
mattyw said:
great point! no one drinks and drives thanks to the law

- - - Updated - - -



I agree with this 100%
Click to expand...

Like it or not laws influence many (not all, obviously). Based off your argument nothing should be illegal and there should be no legal ramifications for any of our actions because a contingent of people will never follow the law. Good luck with that.

Mike

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you make it sound like you could go to walmart and pick up some VX to go with your can of spaghetti-Os.

but more than that you do sound like a quivering, frightened... i don't want to say "vag" because that's a nasty dig. but really, what are you so scared of?

you apply the same logic to things where the likelihood of them being used in crimes/violent actions are now. a version blown way out of proportion to when a liberal argues against NFA items.
 
crazymjb said:
Like it or not laws influence many (not all, obviously). Based off your argument nothing should be illegal and there should be no legal ramifications for any of our actions because a contingent of people will never follow the law. Good luck with that.

Mike

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Click to expand...
sweet strawman argument.
when did I suggest no ramifications? I am for laws punishing crime and criminals, not laws punishing pre-crime, crime that may never actually come to fruition.

you think if there were no law against killing people or driving drunk everyone would do it daily?
 
atilla said:
you make it sound like you could go to walmart and pick up some VX to go with your can of spaghetti-Os.

but more than that you do sound like a quivering, frightened... i don't want to say "vag" because that's a nasty dig. but really, what are you so scared of?

you apply the same logic to things where the likelihood of them being used in crimes/violent actions are now. a version blown way out of proportion to when a liberal argues against NFA items.
Click to expand...

this is the main gripe in this thread, everything he is saying is what others more entrenched in having the government save them, say about our rights to own firearms, same argument with a differing opinion behind it, same points and logic.

everything that can be said as to why government should ban Sarin gas is said by extremists to say government should ban 10rd magazines, etc etc
 
crazymjb said:
So lets say they killed 50... thats 10 fold more than they could with foreworks and pressure cookers.

Look to columbine... same thing. Their failed bombs killed nobody. Easily dozens more.

Look at every major shooting of a crowded area. Toss in some grenades, what happens?

Mike

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

All I'm going to say, Oklahoma City.

Balls in your court.

168 killed by the way.
 
Bonesinium said:
All I'm going to say, Oklahoma City.

Balls in your court.

168 killed by the way.
Click to expand...

Clearly trucks of a certain size can be used to kill orders of magnitude more people than say, a Toyota Tacoma. Would you want 30' box trucks available for rent to anyone at Home Depot? The government should regulate who can drive them because I don't trust my neighbor with one. Anything else would be anarchy. If my neighbor had one in his driveway pointed at my house I'd go kick his ass because anarchy.
 

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