Israel to purchase the Army’s M250, but in 7.62x51 instead of 6.8x5.

[Rockrivr1]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

"The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev light machine guns 5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm, variations of which are current in IDF service."

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army’s New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev...

www.yahoo.com

 

[PappyM3]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army’s New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev...

www.yahoo.com

Even in 7.62x51, the M250 is a winner.

 

[radioman]

12 bucks a round? Only the U.S. would be willing to pay that much for ammo. Good on Israel for sticking with the old stand by.

 

[Foudre]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army’s New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev...

www.yahoo.com

With Israel getting tens of billions of dollars in aid money from the US since 2023, I doubt they are worried about how much of our money they are spending.

 

[whatluck]

sig has been a douce recently but i gotta admit that loading tray is a game changer

neva been done befo

 

[Mountain]

With Israel getting tens of billions of dollars in aid money from the US since 2023, I doubt they are worried about how much of our money they are spending.

$17.9B. LOL Zelensky says those are amateur numbers.

 

[Rockrivr1]

12 bucks a round? Only the U.S. would be willing to pay that much for ammo. Good on Israel for sticking with the old stand by.

I have to imagine Israel is sitting on 10s of millions of 7.62x51 rounds in storage. Makes sense to get a gun that can fire it.

 

[paul73]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army’s New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev...

www.yahoo.com

i really wonder, what is the life expectancy of that suppressor can in front, and how soon will it be ripped off barrel.
and the barrel itself - does not seem to have anything for cooling at all.

 

[FalArAk]

12 bucks a round? Only the U.S. would be willing to pay that much for ammo. Good on Israel for sticking with the old stand by.

I think Israel should have asked the US first if it was ok to purchase these rifles.

Lots of things to consider like how much is the US going to have to pay to maintain these rifles, life expectancy of the suppressors etc.

 

[PappyM3]

i really wonder, what is the life expectancy of that suppressor can in front, and how soon will it be ripped off barrel.
and the barrel itself - does not seem to have anything for cooling at all.

Just like the 249, it’s air cooled. That’s why automatic riflemen carry spare barrels on patrol.

I’m not sure about the rate of fire the silencer can handle.

 

[FalArAk]

Just like the 249, it’s air cooled. That’s why automatic riflemen carry spare barrels on patrol.

I’m not sure about the rate of fire the silencer can handle.

Been a while since I 11B'd, but why would a LMG need a suppressor?

Using suppressing fire wouldn't you want the enemy to hear the MG, thereby suppressing their advances and advancing our guys?

This LMG is basically the same function in a squad as a SAW, right?

 

[Mountain]

I think Israel should have asked the US first if it was ok to purchase these rifles.

Lots of things to consider like how much is the US going to have to pay to maintain these rifles, life expectancy of the suppressors etc.

If they spec out a decent suppressor it would be made from inconel type alloy- same stuff as hot section jet turbine blades.

 

[PappyM3]

Been a while since I 11B'd, but why would a LMG need a suppressor?

Using suppressing fire wouldn't you want the enemy to hear the MG, thereby suppressing their advances and advancing our guys?

This LMG is basically the same function in a squad as a SAW, right?

SAW replacement, yeah.

The main benefits of the silencers are two fold:
- Less chaos amongst the fireteam during an engagement. A team leader can control everyone better with better communication all around.
- Harder for the enemy to orient the direction the fire is coming from. Suppressive fire will still be effective as the cracks start going off all around those being suppressed. The suppressive fire aspect of battle drill 1 is more to keep their heads down than to limit the sound of the maneuvering element’s movement. But the silenced M250 will still be fairly loud. It’s not 300blk/22lr quiet. Just not quite as loud as unsilenced.

Edit: same reasons the USMC went with silencers for all their M27s.

 

[PappyM3]

If they spec out a decent suppressor it would be made from inconel type alloy- same stuff as hot section jet turbine blades.

Pretty sure it’s an additive manufactured inconel silencer. But I may be mistaken.

 

[paul73]

The main benefits of the silencers are two fold:

- to heat soak barrel like crazy, making it useless 100x faster to generate more sales to boost sig profits. but, whatever.

 

[Mountain]

Pretty sure it’s an additive manufactured inconel silencer. But I may be mistaken.

Additive makes sense. Must take pretty hi temps to sinter. We have some additive machines in our R&D. LOL I wouldn't do it but the one guy who would figure it out is a gun guy.

 

[PappyM3]

- to heat soak barrel like crazy, making it useless 100x faster to generate more sales to boost sig profits. but, whatever.

The users/small unit leaders can decide if they want to use it or not. Lots do still like silencers for MG use.

 

[paul73]

The users/small unit leaders can decide if they want to use it or not. Lots do still like silencers for MG use.
View attachment 951652

the picture above is for doing ta-ta-ta, and then another ta-ta, then may be a whole ra-ta-ta-ta.
not a ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata....tata.


same reason why i really hate that habit calling rifle a MG.

 

[PappyM3]

the picture above is for doing ta-ta-ta, and then another ta-ta, then may be a whole ra-ta-ta-ta.
not a ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata....tata.


same reason why i really hate that habit calling rifle a MG.

Please go research the M27 and it’s assorted roles, *including for the automatic rifleman position.

Edit: the USMC did a big test in 2017 for whole-squad silencer use. Their findings resulted in going forward with having a silencer for every M27, starting in 2020.

 

[Golddiggie]

I have to imagine Israel is sitting on 10s of millions of 7.62x51 rounds in storage. Makes sense to get a gun that can fire it.

Not to mention it's a lot easier to get NATO standard ammo than a brand new caliber with limited production streams.

 

[PappyM3]

the picture above is for doing ta-ta-ta, and then another ta-ta, then may be a whole ra-ta-ta-ta.
not a ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata....tata.


same reason why i really hate that habit calling rifle a MG.

www.military.com/daily-news/2020/11/28/new-m240-machine-gun-suppressor-gets-rave-reviews-army-maneuver-test.html

 

[Parker Schreiber]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

Only the Special Purpose rounds approach that price tag. Quoting from the FY2024 Budget Estimates:

(E06002) NEXT GENERATION COMBAT ROUND / General Purpose (GP) ammunition is a training standard item used in both combat and training. FY 2024 request supports annual training and builds a war reserve inventory in accordance with the Army's procurement goals. FY 2024 Base Procurement dollars in the amount of $35.896 million supports the procurement of 27.451 million GP cartridges. Type classification date: Projected 3rd Quarter FY2025.
(E06014) NEXT GENERATION REDUCED RANGE ROUND is a training unique item not used in combat. FY 2024 request supports annual training and builds a depot level in accordance with the Army's procurement goals. FY 2024 Base Procurement dollars in the amount of $107.341 million supports the procurement of 92.881 million Reduced Range cartridges. Type classification date: Projected 1st Quarter FY2026.
(E06015) NEXT GENERATION SQUAD WEAPON SPECIAL PURPOSE ROUND / Special Purpose (SP) ammunition is a war reserve item used in combat. FY 2024 request builds a war reserve inventory in accordance with Army's procurement goals. FY 2024 Base Procurement dollars in the amount of $14.488 million supports the procurement of 1.130 million SP cartridges. Type classification date: Projected 3rd Quarter FY2026.

Sig will happily sell you "overruns" at $2.72 a round or so, which is closer to the price to the government I previously saw:

6.8x51, 113GR Hybrid Ball - Crate (920rnds)

Next Gen Ammunition, Magnum Performance.

www.sigsauer.com

 

[Palladin]

 

[whacko]

the picture above is for doing ta-ta-ta, and then another ta-ta, then may be a whole ra-ta-ta-ta.
not a ratatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatatata....tata.


same reason why i really hate that habit calling rifle a MG.

That's not true. If i caught one of my gunners firing a the 249 or 240b like that.....he would have a severe emotional experience followed by remedial training.

Belt fed weapons are fired in 6 to 9 round busts......for a few reasons that I'm not inclined to type now as I have to finish my breakfast and get my ass to work.

 

[PappyM3]

That's not true. If i caught one of my gunners firing a the 249 or 240b like that.....he would have a severe emotional experience followed by remedial training.

Belt fed weapons are fired in 6 to 9 round busts......for a few reasons that I'm not inclined to type now as I have to finish my breakfast and get my ass to work.

One reason: I had to deadline an M240B and turn it into the depot during a FOB refit because some knucklehead decided to go full cyclic without swapping barrels and fused the barrel to the receiver.

 

[whacko]

One reason: I had to deadline an M240B and turn it into the depot during a FOB refit because some knucklehead decided to go full cyclic without swapping barrels and fused the barrel to the receiver.

That's one reason lol

Another is to give the gunner a second to get the sights back on target between bursts. If you fire full cyclic.....after 6 to 9 rounds your completely off target

 

[safetyfirst2125]

With the cost of around $12 a round for 6.8 I’m not surprised they went with the old standby.

Israel Buys 7.62x51mm Version Of U.S. Army’s New Sig Sauer M250 Light Machine Gun: Report

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) have reportedly acquired a version of the 6.8x51mm M250 light machine gun that Sig Sauer developed for the U.S. Army, but chambered to fire the NATO-standard 7.62x51mm round. Sig Sauer’s design may now be in line to supplant at least a portion of Israeli Negev...

www.yahoo.com

6.8 is glitzy “look at meeee im a sniper now!” ammo

7.62 is “we’re gonna have to blast our way to the top of that hill — who’s with me” ammo

Also….cheaper

 

[jkelly1229]

12 bucks a round? Only the U.S. would be willing to pay that much for ammo. Good on Israel for sticking with the old stand by.

Fiscal responsibility from a government...in a warm climate... with hot israeli chicks?

Alright it's a good start

 

[paul73]

Belt fed weapons are fired in 6 to 9 round busts......

I am very well aware of what the theory is. And also a bit aware to what extent theory may not correlate with a reality.
None of those are maxim mg that actually can do solid 250 rounds bursts, but some designs are better than others.
And an idea that a heavy mg usage must only be restricted to short occasional bursts is just silly.

 

[garandman]

$17.9B. LOL Zelensky says those are amateur numbers.

LOL that’s one year. Israel is far and away the largest recipient of U.S. Aid, and Biden just signed a deal for $8 billion.