LTCs with PIN numbers...

[MACGYVR]

Not to pick at details, but the technical name is actually, "Pound-you-in-the-ass-prison.

 

[dagwag77]

It specifically says on the back of form 4473 that you CAN buy a gun as a gift. Further more if you do you would answer yes to question 12a. One should really do their research before making legal statements like this.

You're right, I did my research BUT I misread the sentence... MY BAD. I went back to check my source to see if they had it wrong....

One of the questions on form 4473 is “I am the buyer of this firearm” and the purchaser must answer honestly yes or no, by check the appropriate box in ink. However, purchase of a firearm as a bona fide gift for someone who can own such a firearm is permitted.

 

[drgrant]

A straw purchase is buying a gun for someone other than yourself. You cannot guy a gun as a gift. You cannot buy a gun with the intention to give it as a gift.

This is incorrect. You -CAN- buy guns as gifts under certain circumstances. (EG, in free states, people buy guns for one another all the time, long as they're both residents of the same state. ) Federal law allows for this. (Not sure if the law does in MA, or not, eg, buying a gun as a gift for another LTC holder.... course most shops in MA likely have the gift recipient come in and do the 4473 and the FA-10 themselves. )

straw purchase is defined as any purchase from a dealer holding a Federal Firearms License where the buyer conducting the transaction is acting as a proxy for another person. The law does not distinguish between someone who is purchasing on behalf of a person who legally cannot purchase or possess a firearm, and one who is not.

That's an overly simplistic way of describing what a straw is or is not... it's actually can be somewhat more complicated than that, because a lot of circumstances in determining a straw depend/can hinge on the intent of the people involved in the transaction. Do a search here and you'll quickly discover that what does or does not constitute a straw purchase is too complicated to fit into a couple of paragraphs.

-Mike

 

[Realtor MA]

A straw purchase is the act of buying a gun to give it to a prohibited person. The OP wouldn't be applying for a license if he was a prohibited person. If there is a plan to transfer the gun to the OP when he obtains his license, I cannot see how that is a straw purchase.

The guy was asking about pin numbers and you started dropping terms like "federal felony". Does that seem a little over the top?

+1

 

[jcr]

It is LEGAL to buy a gun as a gift for someone

A Federal Felony Straw Purchase only happens when the person who ends up with the gun is a "prohibited person".

If you buy a gun to give as a gift to, say, your LTC holder father, you are telling the truth on the 4473 when you saying that you are buying it for yourself. That your intention is to give it as a gift, and that in the end you won't be in your possession, is irrelevant. (In MA, an FA-10, would be involved on the gift transfer). (Of course, the giftee must reside in the same state).

In states other than MA, fathers buy guns for their chilren. This is NOT a straw puchase (unless it is a handgun, and the child is a juvenile).

Remember the big stink was made when Sarah Brady bought a rifle for her son. She my have been being hypocritical, but she was not making a straw purchase.

Btw, gun shops may get real nervous about your buying a gun gift. It is okay to not tell them.

Just don't give a gun gift to a prohibited person, and in MA, fill out an FA-10).

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

A Federal Felony Straw Purchase only happens when the person who ends up with the gun is a "prohibited person".

If you buy a gun to give as a gift to, say, your LTC holder father, you are telling the truth on the 4473 when you saying that you are buying it for yourself. That your intention is to give it as a gift, and that in the end you won't be in your possession, is irrelevant. (In MA, an FA-10, would be involved on the gift transfer). (Of course, the giftee must reside in the same state).

In states other than MA, fathers buy guns for their chilren. This is NOT a straw puchase (unless it is a handgun, and the child is a juvenile).

Remember the big stink was made when Sarah Brady bought a rifle for her son. She my have been being hypocritical, but she was not making a straw purchase.

Btw, gun shops may get real nervous about your buying a gun gift. It is okay to not tell them.

Just don't give a gun gift to a prohibited person, and in MA, fill out an FA-10).

ok so by that logic an LEO can buy a new glock with the intention to sell/give it to someone else, and that wouldnt be a straw purchase?

 

[namedpipes]

OK. So by that logic, an LEO can buy a new Glock with the intention to sell/give it to someone else; that wouldn't be a straw purchase?

Nope. That would just a wicked kind act

 

[Realtor MA]

Actually, its exactly a straw purchase. Buying a gun for someone who is not lawfully able to do so. As others have said, we aren't ripping on you personally, just pointing out that this isn't really something you want to post about on a public forum.

OK, I just read the part where he will store it and you will only see it when he brings it to the range. Grab a few FA-10 face to face transfer forms when you get your license so you can transfer it over to yourself and then waste hours perusing the classifieds here.

I think we're all getting a little too tough on ourselves. His uncle is buying the gun with the intention of transfering it to him when he gets his license. Not a straw purchase and there's clearly no intent to break any laws.

Here's something similar. I bought a 22 bolt action to give to my son. He's only 13 now. I can't give it to him until he has his FID. Is that a straw purchase? Same scenario just a different time frame.

 

[drgrant]

A Federal Felony Straw Purchase only happens when the person who ends up with the gun is a "prohibited person".

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this assertion is patently wrong. Straws are a lot more complicated and wider in scope than that.

See this thread:

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32676

Also, a LEO named Michael Lara was indicted for a straw which did not involve
any prohibited persons- So via the letter of the law, it's possible to violate
it even if the intent is not to deliver a gun to a person who is prohibited from
receiving it.

-Mike

 

[wahsben]

Remember that in mass. the law means whatever they want it to mean and it can be used to prosecute anyone they so choose, turning the innocent into criminals to keep the govt. coffers full.

 

[Coyote33]

ok so by that logic an LEO can buy a new glock with the intention to sell/give it to someone else, and that wouldnt be a straw purchase?

Or how about an uncle buying for a nephew, to give it to him once he is properly licensed?

I'd say most people write the PIN on their LTC for convenience. There is a photo on there also, so faking an ID isn't going to work.

 

[dagwag77]

Or how about an uncle buying for a nephew, to give it to him once he is properly licensed?

I'd say most people write the PIN on their LTC for convenience. There is a photo on there also, so faking an ID isn't going to work.

It is possible to fake a LTC, compare it to your DL, there are almost NO security features on your LTC, unlike the DL. I'll let you search the net for ways to print plastic ID cards.....