MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

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CrackPot said:
My big take aways having read all 111 pages

  • Assault style weapons
    • Rifle hits thumbhole stock, foregrip, threaded barrel and handguards, drops flash hider. This has the effect of wiping out all non-fudd guns
    • Pistol adds second grip and removes copy of full auto. Otherwise really unchanged.
    • Exemption for anything lawfully possessed before 8/1/24
  • LCFD (large capacity feeding devices) adds language about parts or combination of parts held by the same person. Be careful about this one
  • Full registration. All guns will be uniquely held and owned and the state will know who has them. If you loan for less than 7 days no paperwork, otherwise ALL guns are in the system including everything a dealer has in inventory. This is a HUGE paperwork nightmare on dealers.
  • Ghost gun crap as expected. no 3d printers designed for guns. state gives you serial numbers. normal expected crap
  • State can essentially share everything about guns in the state and gun crime info and what not if they "hide" personal info. Just like the previous data releases where it was trivial to figure out who was who
  • Ammunition sales tracked and recorded. They will know what you buy. On the upside, it is lawful for LTC holders to sell ammo (but they have to record it)
  • PREBAN magazine screwing. Not transferable. Not importable. Can have at home and the range and locked up transporting between. But no carry or other reasonable uses.
  • frames and receivers are regulated
  • ALL firearms are subject to the roster. This includes frames, receivers, rifles, shotguns, etc. Getting on the roster is the same as before, destructive testing. All long gun sales will come to a grinding halt based on this insanity. There is no way to ever transfer a frame or receiver even for something as mundane as a remington 700, ruger 10/22 or similar gun because it can never pass the testing needed to get on the roster.
I am still trying to think through some of the implications of the 111 pages of changes.

Two "good" things
  • intoxication while possessing a gun is now defined to align with driving so .08. Clarification has to be good
  • Non residents can carry in the car while driving through MA. Gun must remain in the car and locked up if out of their control. (129C (m) for reference). This is actually pretty shocking

A number of dealer issues
  • Cant bring into the state any ASW or LCFD.
  • No way to get guns to police since no dealer can bring them into the state to sell to police.
  • Any distributors in MA are screwed
  • Any dealers in MA making money selling online whether their own website or gunbroker are screwed (they cant bring in ASW or LCFDs)
  • Dealers are not exempt from AWB or mag limits which ties out to not being able to sell to police in state or anyone out of state

I found lots of typos and mistakes which I will keep to myself
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No more carrying in any government buildings (local, county, state) or within 150 of any polling station. If you want to complain, do it unarmed. If you want to vote, do it unarmed.

Today a manufacturer in MA can sell a gun they manufacturer to a MA resident even if it is not on the roster. This was done by exempting manufacturers from the conditions of a dealer to sell only roster guns. That exemption was struck in this bill. So no custom guns built by BEC or Derr or anyone going forward.

All the "hard" stuff in the bill like new IT system for registration and serial number requests have delays in their effectiveness of at least 6 months from the effective date of the bill. Interestingly they do not even notify all license holders for 6 months of all the changes... But this allows for immediate effectiveness if they chose since all the stuff that needs time has delays.


So we can easily see this pass with immediate effect and no one will know or have been informed or trained but there it will be...
 
CrackPot said:
No more carrying in any government buildings (local, county, state) or within 150 of any polling station. If you want to complain, do it unarmed. If you want to vote, do it unarmed.

Today a manufacturer in MA can sell a gun they manufacturer to a MA resident even if it is not on the roster. This was done by exempting manufacturers from the conditions of a dealer to sell only roster guns. That exemption was struck in this bill. So no custom guns built by BEC or Derr or anyone going forward.

All the "hard" stuff in the bill like new IT system for registration and serial number requests have delays in their effectiveness of at least 6 months from the effective date of the bill. Interestingly they do not even notify all license holders for 6 months of all the changes... But this allows for immediate effectiveness if they chose since all the stuff that needs time has delays.


So we can easily see this pass with immediate effect and no one will know or have been informed or trained but there it will be...
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That seems like a great lawsuit basis right there.
 
VTski4x4 said:
Any dealer that stays in business and breaks their back to get LEOs anything should be tattooed with a scarlet "faggot" on their forehead
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I accept that NES hates the police. I do not discriminate against anyone based on some single group attribute including profession. I have lots of customers that are good people, gun nuts, and police officers. I have always sold anything that someone can lawfully own if I can find a way to lawfully transfer it to them and they are not a raving idiot (ok, i still sell to @Broc Tuah as an exception to this rule)

So if you need to virtually tattoo faggot on my forehead, do what you need to. But I dont discriminate including against LEOs.
 
VTski4x4 said:
That seems like a great lawsuit basis right there.
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There is infinite lawsuit potential here but remember, nothing will happen.

State courts will rubber stamp everything is lawful

Federal district of MA is all DEM appointed so no joy
1st circuit court of appeals is all DEM appointed so no joy

So we have to get to SCOTUS or we have to have SCOTUS specifically nuke things like AWBs, mag limits, rosters, etc AND have lower courts follow the guidance.

We already have the 7th and 9th sticking the middle finger at SCOTUS on Bruen and the 1st will do the same. It will be a long fight
 
CrackPot said:
I accept that NES hates the police. I do not discriminate against anyone based on some single group attribute including profession. I have lots of customers that are good people, gun nuts, and police officers. I have always sold anything that someone can lawfully own if I can find a way to lawfully transfer it to them and they are not a raving idiot (ok, i still sell to @Broc Tuah as an exception to this rule)

So if you need to virtually tattoo faggot on my forehead, do what you need to. But I dont discriminate including against LEOs.
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I don't hate police (I think you know I even took the CS exam). I don't care who you sell to, you're in the business to make money, and you take all of mine when I can spare it. I do feel strongly though that after this bill passes, life as we know it somewhat resets. PD will be the only ones able to obtain the unattainable through any surviving dealers, but it will require a lot of work for said dealer. Work that can't be done for anyone not anointed by the State. It will be a major kick in the balls for normal people if a dealer breaks their back for special people. Don't worry, your room is free of scarlet tattoo requirement.
 
CrackPot said:
I accept that NES hates the police. I do not discriminate against anyone based on some single group attribute including profession. I have lots of customers that are good people, gun nuts, and police officers. I have always sold anything that someone can lawfully own if I can find a way to lawfully transfer it to them and they are not a raving idiot (ok, i still sell to @Broc Tuah as an exception to this rule)

So if you need to virtually tattoo faggot on my forehead, do what you need to. But I dont discriminate including against LEOs.
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So I'd disagree, saying all NES hates law enforcement. I, for one, do not; I have family in LE. Do I feel they deserve special treatment šŸ¤”?.No, I don't. There is zero justified reason that you are a special class of citizen and deserve to be allowed more things. Keep in mind that they (legislators) didn't want LE exemptions, it wasn't until chiefs came out against it that things changed, and then us peasants were left out, so I understand why people don't like LE.
 
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rogersmithiii said:
Biden announced all all out assault on the SJC - term limits, expanded number of justices, etc. They will never quit.
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SJC is MA.

Biden did announce some BS proposals for the Supreme Court reform but I don't think adding justices was on his list.
He wanted term limits and an ethics code

Kind of a moot point because he can't do it with EO, and no way this is getting through Congress. It's "hey I'm running for re-election" noise
Not likely to happen any time soon. Best guess is trying to swing the House a bit more come November
 
808 said:
So I'd disagree, saying all NES hates law enforcement. I, for one, do not; I have family in LE. Do I feel they deserve special treatment šŸ¤”?.No, I don't. There is zero justified reason that you are a special class of citizen and deserve to be allowed more things. Keep in mind that they didn't want LE exemptions, it wasn't until chiefs came out against it that things changed, and then us peasants were left out, so I understand why people don't like LE.
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It wasn't because the police were exempted it's because they opposed this shit as unconstitutional until they got exempted then it was the best thing since sliced bread
 
CrackPot said:
No more carrying in any government buildings (local, county, state) or within 150 of any polling station. If you want to complain, do it unarmed. If you want to vote, do it unarmed.

Today a manufacturer in MA can sell a gun they manufacturer to a MA resident even if it is not on the roster. This was done by exempting manufacturers from the conditions of a dealer to sell only roster guns. That exemption was struck in this bill. So no custom guns built by BEC or Derr or anyone going forward.

All the "hard" stuff in the bill like new IT system for registration and serial number requests have delays in their effectiveness of at least 6 months from the effective date of the bill. Interestingly they do not even notify all license holders for 6 months of all the changes... But this allows for immediate effectiveness if they chose since all the stuff that needs time has delays.


So we can easily see this pass with immediate effect and no one will know or have been informed or trained but there it will be...
Click to expand...
I can't wait to see this new registration system that will allegedly register all firearms currently possessed

I'm sure everyone will log right in and record every firearm they own, right? I predict non-compliance will be pretty high.

Let's see, a large state run system...that doesn't even exist yet. Sound expensive and long term to implement. And if it's anything like the other state systems it will work "kind of".

I'll say one thing about RI, they got some wonky gun laws, but there is provision the expressly prohibit registration.


Ā§ 11-47-41. Government firearm registration prohibited.

No government agency of this state or its political subdivisions shall keep or cause to be kept any list or register of privately owned firearms or any list or register of the owners of those firearms; provided, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to firearms which have been used in committing any crime of violence, nor to any person who has been convicted of a crime of violence.


They might do away with that provision some day, but people would notice
 
Jsfitzgerald85 said:

View: https://youtu.be/LQCB4WN-2Bc?si=a2nvqL3kLsKLcpp6
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The absolute last thing on the list was blood alcohol content while youā€™re carrying a firearm..
I donā€™t drink beer, but youā€™re telling me if I eat two meals, I could drink six beers and still carry my gun thatā€™s about the stupidest f***ing thing Iā€™ve ever seen in law And I mean 6 beers over the course of two hours wouldnā€™t even put me thereā€¦ maybe an hour and a half you gotta figure. Iā€™m about 12 waters too and then Iā€™ll be too busy to shoot somebody because Iā€™ll be in the bathroom pissing.

f***ing level of retard Iā€™m surprised they didnā€™t have the weed otter out too many joints you can smoke before you shouldnā€™t touch a gun.

You shouldnā€™t be getting f***ed up carrying a gun around.. after hunting diner shooting done or whatever you wanna have a few beers after you lock them up no big deal but they really just spell it out like that. Itā€™s pretty goddamn pathetic and they have the factor that the breathalyzer arenā€™t even accurate. I want a blood test. Tell me high cholesterol.

The level is f***ing retard is high
 
Jsfitzgerald85 said:

View: https://youtu.be/LQCB4WN-2Bc?si=a2nvqL3kLsKLcpp6
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That is a good video. There is something about fixing the license system, but theyā€™re not really gonna do it.
They used to not let you submit more than 30 days in advance and now theyā€™re gonna tell you 90 days beforehand, but this is all a very by cityā€¦ like it always has

I want to renew one my permits the same year in advance so that when I go to renew my permits, I can do both at the same f***ing time rather than have to come down there twice.

I got two different state permits that are staggered by a year and then the federal one that staggered very itā€™s every three years talk about making it more difficult than it has to be you shouldnā€™t need any of them
 
pastera said:
it's unconstitutional because it's the right thing to do
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that is the mantra pretty much, yep. they safely ignore the constitution as they rely upon us to be restrained by it.

the whole point of why i disagree with picton constantly, as it is a classic no win scenario, when one side publicly ignores and denounces all the rules while persisting upon strictest punishment of the other side using those same exact rules they themselves ignore.
a no win scenario. you have eventually to accept that all rules and boundaries are simply gone and not enforceable anymore.
but, well, whatever. 0 point to continue bitching about any of this anyway.
 
GL2020 said:
I can't wait to see this new registration system that will allegedly register all firearms currently possessed

I'm sure everyone will log right in and record every firearm they own, right? I predict non-compliance will be pretty high.

Let's see, a large state run system...that doesn't even exist yet. Sound expensive and long term to implement. And if it's anything like the other state systems it will work "kind of".

I'll say one thing about RI, they got some wonky gun laws, but there is provision the expressly prohibit registration.


Ā§ 11-47-41. Government firearm registration prohibited.

No government agency of this state or its political subdivisions shall keep or cause to be kept any list or register of privately owned firearms or any list or register of the owners of those firearms; provided, that the provisions of this section shall not apply to firearms which have been used in committing any crime of violence, nor to any person who has been convicted of a crime of violence.


They might do away with that provision some day, but people would notice
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SECTION 157. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish the electronic firearms registration system established pursuant to section 121B of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this act; provided, that all firearms shall be registered in accordance with this act and not later than 1 year after said electronic firearms registration system is completed and publicly available.
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So they have a year to implement it and another year to get it right...
 
pastera said:
It wasn't because the police were exempted it's because they opposed this shit as unconstitutional until they got exempted then it was the best thing since sliced bread
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It was because they were not exempt that they came out against it. Once they were cut in to the deal LE no longer opposed it. So they never cared about constitutionally for us only for themselves.
 
Do we expect this law to push people into getting an FFL for their own collecting purposes, or does the new law make that not worth the trouble?
 
not new guy said:
Do we expect this law to push people into getting an FFL for their own collecting purposes, or does the new law make that not worth the trouble?
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A lot of us do have FFLā€™s as 03. If you are talking 01 then the typical MA bs of it needing to be commercially zoned comes into play. I donā€™t think the 03 exemption for home delivery is going to continue though. I havenā€™t seen it mentioned and unlike our legislature, I havenā€™t had time to read and understand the full text /s
 
not new guy said:
Do we expect this law to push people into getting an FFL for their own collecting purposes, or does the new law make that not worth the trouble?
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  1. you cannot get a FFL for personal collecting. You have to be "in the business". This can be worked around but is a hurdle
  2. MA requires an address not residential for a FFL so the cost of space is not a trivial component
  3. They have fcked over dealers/FFLs also. We are no longer exempt from the AWB or mag capacity restriction. We cannot import into the state any ASWs or LCFDs. So being a FFL does not enhance your collection in any meaningful way any longer under the new rules
 
CrackPot said:
  1. you cannot get a FFL for personal collecting. You have to be "in the business". This can be worked around but is a hurdle
  2. MA requires an address not residential for a FFL so the cost of space is not a trivial component
  3. They have fcked over dealers/FFLs also. We are no longer exempt from the AWB or mag capacity restriction. We cannot import into the state any ASWs or LCFDs. So being a FFL does not enhance your collection in any meaningful way any longer under the new rules
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Thanks (and to ddeck). Your #3 answers my question.
 
CrackPot said:
  1. you cannot get a FFL for personal collecting. You have to be "in the business". This can be worked around but is a hurdle
  2. MA requires an address not residential for a FFL so the cost of space is not a trivial component
  3. They have fcked over dealers/FFLs also. We are no longer exempt from the AWB or mag capacity restriction. We cannot import into the state any ASWs or LCFDs. So being a FFL does not enhance your collection in any meaningful way any longer under the new rules
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Regarding #3

Since you wonā€™t be exempt from the ā€œASWā€ ban or LCFDs, this also means LE canā€™t acquire them either, right?

Unless they bring you a formal request on a letterhead, akin to NFA items?

(This might have been answered already)
 
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