MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[Darksideblues42]

Even from out of state or only in state dealers?

Massachusetts only has authority to license dealers in state.

 

[rogersmithiii]

That’s assuming that the make up of the court doesn’t change between now and then.

Biden announced all all out assault on the SJC - term limits, expanded number of justices, etc. They will never quit.

 

[Picton]

Principals and assistant principals most likely have no clue this is an option.

Most will not want this as an option. The idea that most educators want to drop a dime on students is a common NES trope, but if it were real, the state would not have had to pass a law mandating reporting of child abuse. That's only a law because if it wasn't, nobody in education would report.

Administrators have a lot of work filling their day. They don't want more. Dealing with students' home lives is something most would rather not do. They already ignore the "online bullying" stuff contained in Phoebe's Law because it requires them to intrude on home lives; they'll ignore this too.

There are some true believers out there, sure. In my experience, the VAST majority of school administrators won't be into this.

Flipside of that—kid bags a deer. Tells his buddies in class. Random kid overhears this and is uncomfortable—are there school administrators who will report this? And if so, would police act on it based on the info?

I strongly suspect that a MA community where "bagging a deer" is a common thing to brag about is unlikely to hire a school administrator who'll care much about it.

 

[rogersmithiii]

But you can go to a free state and buy post ban mags with an ID and take them to the moon if you want to

The penalty if you get caught is ultra nasty. Who needs the risk?

 

[rogersmithiii]

“Pre-ban mags for sale. Buyer must meet me in Seabrook”

They'll wait until you need public safety, and when they find them in your house, it's all over.

 

[Spartan65]

They'll wait until you need public safety, and when they find them in your house, it's all over.

People don’t understand you need to be lucky every single day. They need to be lucky once.

 

[Darksideblues42]

Most will not want this as an option. The idea that most educators want to drop a dime on students is a common NES trope, but if it were real, the state would not have had to pass a law mandating reporting of child abuse. That's only a law because if it wasn't, nobody in education would report.

Administrators have a lot of work filling their day. They don't want more. Dealing with students' home lives is something most would rather not do. They already ignore the "online bullying" stuff contained in Phoebe's Law because it requires them to intrude on home lives; they'll ignore this too.

There are some true believers out there, sure. In my experience, the VAST majority of school administrators won't be into this.



I strongly suspect that a MA community where "bagging a deer" is a common thing to brag about is unlikely to hire a school administrator who'll care much about it.

A parent in a former town of mine had the police show up to his house for "terroristic threats" because his kid was being relentlessly bullied and despite reporting it, the administration did nothing since the bully was related to a teacher.


He walked in for a meeting with the principal and told them it needed to stop. This meeting was "A shot across the bow" before he brought his lawyer and the lawyer's "big guns" to take the school and town to task for not stopping the bullies.

He was later told these were "terroristic threats" and he was no longer allowed on school grounds without a police escort.

 

[DW357]

So I couldn't go on GB and by M14 magazines made in the 60's and have them shipped in even though they are clearly preban's although I still can't figure out how this would/could be enforced.

Ship them to the UPS store in Salem, NH

 

[Grendizer138]

People don’t understand you need to be lucky every single day. They need to be lucky once.

I ride motorcycles and my girl is a redhead. Every morning I wake up is lucky.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Could somebody who has read and understands this explain how someone in MA is supposed to sell a semi pistol or rifle once this bill passes? Person to person transfers still OK? If Ate One is the new preban date, will dealers have more flexibility in what they can take in and re-sell intrastate, or are their hands being tied on that?

You are confusing "Feature" with "Bug" in the law.

 

[straightshooterjake]

I believe that this is what is new:

(k) No licensee shall fill an order for any firearm or ammunition received by mail, facsimile, telephone, internet or other telecommunication unless such transaction includes the in-person presentation of the required license, permit or documentation as required herein prior to any sale, delivery or any form of transfer or possession. Transactions between federally licensed dealers shall be exempt from this subsection.

I don’t know how it applies to out of state vendors.

Is there wording about internet ammo sales?

I am not a lawyer and I don't know how things will shake out for internet ammo sales. But I do know that the rules covering out of state vendors are different than in state.

A vendor with no presence in Massachusetts, does not come under control of Massachusetts just by shipping products that are legal into the state. There are many states that would like to make their state laws apply nationwide to vendors of certain products. But mostly, interstate commerce is the exclusive domain of Federal law, and states can't make their local laws apply everywhere else.

There have been some recent cases about interstate sales of wine. The states wanting restrictions claim they are trying to control illegal sales to minors, but it looks a lot like trying to create a monopoly for in state vendors. In my understanding, these decisions have leaned against allowing states to restrain trade.

Federal courts are likely to be much more vigorous in preventing restrictions on interstate trade than they are in protecting Second Amendment rights within one state. This does not mean that Mass won't interfere with internet ammo sales, but it does mean that issue is not the low hanging fruit that it might appear.

Note that this discussion only applies to vendors that have no presence in the state. If a vendor has any presence in Mass, then they are definitely subject to state restrictions.

 

[Picton]

A parent in a former town of mine had the police show up to his house for "terroristic threats" because his kid was being relentlessly bullied and despite reporting it, the administration did nothing since the bully was related to a teacher.


He walked in for a meeting with the principal and told them it needed to stop. This meeting was "A shot across the bow" before he brought his lawyer and the lawyer's "big guns" to take the school and town to task for not stopping the bullies.

He was later told these were "terroristic threats" and he was no longer allowed on school grounds without a police escort.

Every school in every town is different, obviously, and I did say there were some true believers.

Bottom line is that as long as kids and parents don't make their jobs any harder, most administrators won't care about what they do or say. A parent who threatens lawfare is going to RAPIDLY get on the principal's radar. I'm not sure why that would be a big shocker, especially if that principal is already willing to run interference for a teacher's kid.

The answer, if your kid is being bullied, and the school's not giving you satisfaction right away? File a police report.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Massachusetts only has authority to license dealers in state.

The MA claim is that an FOB sale in which the common carrier delivers the product to a MA address takes place at the point of final delivery, not the point of pickup where title and risk of loss of the product passes from the buyer to the seller.

I remember reading a news report about a case where the AG collected a $70K fine from an out of state dealer who was shipping BB guns into the DPRM.

 

[rogersmithiii]

Why didn't Mr. Hathaway show them the door, without saying a word? Why the heck would he talk to any of them?

 

[inkdesigner]

We should be able to get to SCOTUS in three with the right strategy - straight to summary judgement, no requests for injunctions slowing things down.
But that's still three years of suck

Not gonna happen. The 1st Circus will, without a doubt, slow roll any court challenges to this bill. It could be 3 years for the 1st Circus to even issue a ruling. That's how much the "cause guns" doctrine

 

[VTski4x4]

My favorite bumper sticker.

 

[pastera]

Not gonna happen. The 1st Circus will, without a doubt, slow roll any court challenges to this bill. It could be 3 years for the 1st Circus to even issue a ruling. That's how much the "cause guns" doctrine

Agree but if both sides agree to an expedited process then the court does get pushed into some level of compliance.

The 1st Circus will slow roll but given the number of AWB cases already in appeals, we will likely see something from Illinois at SCOTUS well before anything from Mass.

Getting Trump in the oval office is of utmost importance since we will likely see two conservative justices leaving the court in the next four years.

 

[wcorey]

Seems if some guy in the Teamsters is leaning R, for the first time in 120 years, that's a good thing.

Or conversely some R's are leaning D...

 

[Amputee Marksman]

The people who DO hate ma**h***s usually have good reasons.

I believe it is totally possible to hate MA just because

 

[Flint]

Anyone else talk to their rep? Mine said they didn't read it and are voting for it. Don't worry, they read the summary.

 

[CMEBoston]

The penalty if you get caught is ultra nasty. Who needs the risk?

The moon has banned hi capacity mags?
you’re clearly missing the point since when do felons care about penalties?

 

[MAFish&Hunt]

Most will not want this as an option. The idea that most educators want to drop a dime on students is a common NES trope, but if it were real, the state would not have had to pass a law mandating reporting of child abuse. That's only a law because if it wasn't, nobody in education would report.

Administrators have a lot of work filling their day. They don't want more. Dealing with students' home lives is something most would rather not do. They already ignore the "online bullying" stuff contained in Phoebe's Law because it requires them to intrude on home lives; they'll ignore this too.

There are some true believers out there, sure. In my experience, the VAST majority of school administrators won't be into this.



I strongly suspect that a MA community where "bagging a deer" is a common thing to brag about is unlikely to hire a school administrator who'll care much about it.

Every school in every town is different, obviously, and I did say there were some true believers.

Bottom line is that as long as kids and parents don't make their jobs any harder, most administrators won't care about what they do or say. A parent who threatens lawfare is going to RAPIDLY get on the principal's radar. I'm not sure why that would be a big shocker, especially if that principal is already willing to run interference for a teacher's kid.

The answer, if your kid is being bullied, and the school's not giving you satisfaction right away? File a police report.

The middle ground in the approach encompasses the vast majority of districts. You are right that it may be a small amount who will actually deal with this.

However-the amount of work admin puts in for investigating bullying or abuse is far more than this will entail. It puts more on the police, and if a school has a SRO, it most likely goes from there. Make no mistake, if this passes, your ALICE training (not sure if you are teacher or admin) will eventually have an update to include something (albeit small) from this.

 

[CMEBoston]

View attachment 897876
My favorite bumper sticker.

Geee I dunno the penalty might be pretty nasty

 

[slipknot]

I live in a state with mostly sheep, and it is very difficult to be a sheepdog but I have NO quit in me.

 

[not new guy]

New Zealand?

 

[allen-1]

I ride motorcycles and my girl is a redhead. Every morning I wake up is lucky.

That's true. Redheads will kill you in your sleep.

 

[sig shooter]

I believe that this is what is new:

(k) No licensee shall fill an order for any firearm or ammunition received by mail, facsimile, telephone, internet or other telecommunication unless such transaction includes the in-person presentation of the required license, permit or documentation as required herein prior to any sale, delivery or any form of transfer or possession. Transactions between federally licensed dealers shall be exempt from this subsection.

I don’t know how it applies to out of state vendors.

“No person licensed under the provisions of section 122 or section 122B shall fill an order for such weapon, ammunition or ammunition feeding device that was received by mail, facsimile, telephone or other telecommunication unless such transaction or transfer includes the in-person presentation of the required card, proof, license or permit as required herein prior to any sale, delivery or any form of transfer of possession of the subject weapon, ammunition or ammunition feeding device. Transactions between persons licensed under section 122 or between federally licensed dealers shall be exempt from the provisions of this paragraph.“

Seems pretty similar.

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 123

malegislature.gov

 

[Mark from ?]

If you said that to a Rep, they would wear it like a badge of honor...

Not mine....both my guys were heavily R and against the bills.

My last email to them will be thanks for trying...but Im moving and it was a pleasure being your constituent.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

“No person licensed under the provisions of section 122 or section 122B shall fill an order for such weapon, ammunition or ammunition feeding device that was received by mail, facsimile, telephone or other telecommunication unless such transaction or transfer includes the in-person presentation of the required card, proof, license or permit as required herein prior to any sale, delivery or any form of transfer of possession of the subject weapon, ammunition or ammunition feeding device. Transactions between persons licensed under section 122 or between federally licensed dealers shall be exempt from the provisions of this paragraph.“

Seems pretty similar.

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 123

malegislature.gov

Hmm...

Only high-caps require licensing.
Transfers of hi-caps banned except between FFLs

So why the restriction on how high caps which cannot be sold are sold?

 

[expedition03]

This state is getting worse by the day