MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[pastera]

Charges get dropped on this kind of BS all the time but these are back hall/private discussions between prosecutors and attorneys etc so on. I've heard more than a few stories about
this. Problem is this is never part of the "case" so it doesnt become binding or reliable.

Agree but the poster said it was won in court so I assume a clear misapplication where the court didn't have to think very hard.

When it comes to constitutional or legal ambiguities, it behoove the state to drop charges when the defendant is a clean cut person so that they don't take a chance on a loss.
For shitbirds like Rahimi, they salivate to get those into higher level courts.

 

[pastera]

The PD stated that I used “assault” pepper spray and had an unregistered, off roster and illegal large capacity firearm that never came out of the holster during a defense of a home invasion.

I literally watched a lying police officer try to compare apples and assault weapons on the stand. Luckily, reading the MGL out loud tends to catch liars off guard.

And this new law is about 100 pages too long. They’ve written so much that they’ve opened themselves up to loopholes. I’m not just stuck on this one section… there’s holes.

Go back and look at what you wrote
You were in your home - possession is only an issue if you were a prohibited person.
There are many ways to legally possess a firearm without needing to register it. If you purchased it in Mass then you have no duty to ensure the transaction is recorded
Chemical deterrent is non-deadly force therefore in a home invasion there is no question about it's legal use unless you spray a person in obvious retreat out of the home or one already incapacitated.

So like I said - very likely a misapplication of law.

No one here disagrees that there are errors and commissions in this POS - the problem is a judicial system that rubber stamps any anti-gun state actions.

 

[vcman]

Damn, it 4am and people still up because of this fking law. Get some sleep, I know I will soon. Gona try and bag me anather ar10 lower, and fa10 it before August 1st cut off day.

 

[rcwhat]

How are semiautomatic shotguns looking with this? I’m not about to read 101 pages

 

[Matt_SERE]

How are semiautomatic shotguns looking with this? I’m not about to read 101 pages

"ignorance of the law is no excuse"
.gov loves that it is 101 pages long.

 

[MGnoob]

I spoke with my local central ma ffl last hour. He can get me an mp5k for $2800 in 2 days.

Or you could walk into the gun rack and just buy one right on the spot

 

[MGnoob]

Just make sure you dont have a firearm on you haha

Law says he can under .08

 

[safetyfirst2125]

No, because in order to be "assault-style" is must be centerfire

The fun comes in when it's a standard AR lower with a rimfire upper - as an assembly it's legal, break it down and you're a felon.

Disassembly for cleaning — felon!

 

[pastera]

Disassembly for cleaning — felon!

But disassembly and reassembly for cleaning isn't acting as a gunsmith so by this new law it's legal
Schrodinger's gun
It's both legal and illegal at the same time.

 

[pastera]

No, no, it's fine as long as I stop before I cross the .08 barrier now.

The question is if they can force a blood or breath test.
What happens if you simply refuse?
Does existing case law on DUI refusal apply and no evidence is presented?

 

[Lxpony]

Or you could walk into the gun rack and just buy one right on the spot

Great guys there but his prices are very high

 

[pastera]

It’s not the unregistered guns I cared about. It’s the Mossberg they said I registered. I’ve never even touched a Mossberg.

Someone fat fingered a license number into a transfer maybe?

The only time it is going to be an issue is you get a restraining order and they come with a list.

Or grab the data dump that's out in the wild and see if it was transferred after it showed up on your list - at that point you don't care since someone else claimed it after you.

 

[pastera]

How are semiautomatic shotguns looking with this? I’m not about to read 101 pages

Yes, because those that did read the 116 pages owe you that information.

Acrobat has a search function - put shotgun in and skim the results

 

[HorizontalHunter]

Someone fat fingered a license number into a transfer maybe?

The only time it is going to be an issue is you get a restraining order and they come with a list.

Or grab the data dump that's out in the wild and see if it was transferred after it showed up on your list - at that point you don't care since someone else claimed it after you.

A lot of people are going to get jammed up this way and through harassment orders.

 

[Something Offensive]

we need an update on this

 

[MGnoob]

Great guys there but his prices are very high

Yes and no, it depends

 

[MGnoob]

The question is if they can force a blood or breath test.
What happens if you simply refuse?
Does existing case law on DUI refusal apply and no evidence is presented?

That’s actually an interesting question with a car you lose your license, but they have no more jurisdiction over suitable persons for LTC… except right now with the extreme risk protection order they could say you’re an alcoholic and you were carrying your gun, but I don’t know how you prove that but I think that’s the problem with these prevention orders is like they don’t have to prove it.

I put my guns in my safe when I’m drinking

 

[william_munny]

That’s actually an interesting question with a car you lose your license, but they have no more jurisdiction over suitable persons for LTC… except right now with the extreme risk protection order they could say you’re an alcoholic and you were carrying your gun, but I don’t know how you prove that but I think that’s the problem with these prevention orders is like they don’t have to prove it.

I put my guns in my safe when I’m drinking

Yeah, I was mostly joking. I don't intend to get sloppy while carrying, although now I know I can have a beer when I go out to eat without running afoul of the law.

 

[ProGun]

Wow, I'm thoroughly confused. Are we all felons as of August 1st? Suppose no one really knows, not even the lawyers. At this point, not even sure I give 2 f**ks anymore.

 

[Tallahassee]

Wow, I'm thoroughly confused. Are we all felons as of August 1st? Suppose no one really knows, not even the lawyers. At this point, not even sure I give 2 f**ks anymore.

You've been a felon for years, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Thatguy66]

Damn, it 4am and people still up because of this fking law. Get some sleep, I know I will soon. Gona try and bag me anather ar10 lower, and fa10 it before August 1st cut off day.

According to the summary GOAL posted. 8/1 date is irrelevant for AR/AK grandfathering. This was my reading of the bill as well.

“Grandfathering if sold, owned and registered prior to July 20, 2016. Technically there was no registration requirement prior to the passage of this bill.”

The bill defines “legally owned” for copy/duplicate AW (AR/AK) as owned and “registered” pre-2016 Healey statement. All the other semi-autos that fall under the new AW definition are what you can register before 8/1 and be within the law. Not copy/duplicates referenced in 2016.

By registering your lowers now you are self incriminating.

 

[rcwhat]

Yes, because those that did read the 116 pages owe you that information.

Acrobat has a search function - put shotgun in and skim the results

Ok Johnny high horse. Never said anyone owed me anything. Was just asking a simple question for those people that like to converse with others on a public forum. I wasn’t looking for old boomers yelling at clouds.

 

[inerlogic]

some guys calling him out I see. Any NESers?
View attachment 898189View attachment 898190View attachment 898191

If you know, you know.

 

[Scuderia]

What about a Tavor owned after 2016? Theses were exempt from Healy’s edict but are now illegal to own?

 

[souper]

I think some are overthinking the “lawfully
possessed” wording. Current law:

Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished,

How were assault weapons unlawful prior to the ban? I think it’s referring to unlicensed persons, and that context carries through to the new bill.

 

[MAJoe]

No, because in order to be "assault-style" is must be centerfire

The fun comes in when it's a standard AR lower with a rimfire upper - as an assembly it's legal, break it down and you're a felon.

I don’t think that’s correct. These tests are done independently. There are multiple ways a rifle can be an assault weapon:
- Fail the new features test
- Present on the new assault roster under 128A
- A copy or duplicate of the listed weapons or weapons on the assault roster if not sold, owned, and registered prior to 7/20/16

These are not subsections of each other. All you need to do is fail one. To fail the copy or duplicate test it does not have to be centerfire. An AR lower will always fail the duplicate test unless it’s something like an M&P 15-22 which can’t be interchanged.

Regarding the 7/20 date. Rifles that are copies or duplicates sold, owned, and registered prior to 7/20 are not assault weapons. Ones that were not, are assault weapons. But, section 131M says anything lawfully possessed by 8/1 are exempt from the entire AW definition (including copies or duplicates). The registration and serialization requirements in 131M are new and no one is able to meet the registration requirement until the new system is online from which you have a year.

 

[safetyfirst2125]

So, basically: if you bought a semi auto rifle after July 20, 2016 you are a felon on Aug 1, 2024.

 

[Thatguy66]

I don’t think that’s correct. These tests are done independently. There are multiple ways a rifle can be an assault weapon:
- Fail the new features test
- Present on the new assault roster under 128A
- A copy or duplicate of the listed weapons or weapons on the assault roster if not sold, owned, and registered prior to 7/20/16

These are not subsections of each other. All you need to do is fail one. To fail the copy or duplicate test it does not have to be centerfire. An AR lower will always fail the duplicate test unless it’s something like an M&P 15-22 which can’t be interchanged.

Regarding the 7/20 date. Rifles that are copies or duplicates sold, owned, and registered prior to 7/20 are not assault weapons. Ones that were not, are assault weapons. But, section 131M says anything lawfully possessed by 8/1 are exempt from the entire AW definition (including copies or duplicates). The registration and serialization requirements in 131M are new and no one is able to meet the registration requirement until the new system is online from which you have a year.

Agreed but the way they specifically define copy/duplicate AW (illegal) as only exempt if registered prior 2016. Otherwise they can argue after that they were not legally possessed. Basically the new law attempts to codify the prior Healey declaration in retrospect.

 

[MaroonedinMA]

On one hand I have a post 2016 SBR which was properly approved, by the ATF, even properly FA-10'ed in this state at the time of creation.

On the other I'm told the correct interpretation of HR 4885 is that, as a copy/duplicate, this rifle was never legal to build/obtain and after 8/1 will not be legal to own.

So...the ATF broke the law by approving an "illegal firearm" a "copy/duplicate" as it were?

 

[Thatguy66]

What about a Tavor owned after 2016? Theses were exempt from Healy’s edict but are now illegal to own?

My reading is a Tavor would be fine as long as EFA-10’d. The 8/1 date works for the guns that are newly going to be consider AW under this law. It just doesn’t work for the guns that fall under the 2016 copy/duplicate Healey statement.