MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[pastera]

Right but if they want to create one, then it's not. And if it doesn't have basis to what you have it doesn't matter. I'm actually really trying here. The fact of the matter is, we all don't know. Sorry you feel that way

387 Section 121B.(a)(1) The department of criminal justice information services shall
388 develop and maintain a real time electronic firearms registration system. All firearms possessed,
389 manufactured or assembled in the commonwealth shall be registered in accordance with this
390 section. Firearm registration shall be completed via the real time electronic firearms registration
391 system developed and maintained by the department of criminal justice information services and
392 shall include, but not be limited to, the following information: (i) the registrant’s name, address
393 and contact information; (ii) the registrant’s license, card or permit type, license, card or permit
394 number and expiration date or documentation of exemption pursuant to section 129C; (iii) the
395 type of firearm; (iv) the date the firearm was acquired; (v) the name and address of the source
396 from which the firearm was obtained, including the name and address of the prior registrant if
397 applicable; (vi) whether the firearm is a privately made firearm; and (vii) a statement signed by
398 the registrant under the pains and penalties of perjury that they are properly licensed, permitted
399 or exempted under the laws of the commonwealth and are not otherwise prohibited from owning
400 or possessing a firearm.

How is this different than the current system? It's not.
Therefore, the proscribed registry currently exists.

 

[pastera]

Yes but it would fail the duplicate test? All the fun traps with this wording.

No, because in order to be "assault-style" is must be centerfire

The fun comes in when it's a standard AR lower with a rimfire upper - as an assembly it's legal, break it down and you're a felon.

 

[Marty McFly]

How is this different than the current system? It's not.
Therefore, the proscribed registry currently exists.

Listen man, we're both on the same team. I agree with you. But the current registry is so inaccurate that it can't be a final fix. That's what I'm saying

 

[pastera]

Absolutely. Just not sure they can just transfer over the info. It will be a shit show for sure

There won't be a transfer over - they will simply rename the portal.

 

[pastera]

Listen man, we're both on the same team. I agree with you. But the current registry is so inaccurate that it can't be a final fix. That's what I'm saying

They don't care - they wrote into law that you are a felon if they are wrong so they don't GAFF how it effects you.

 

[Marty McFly]

There won't be a transfer over - they will simply rename the portal.

Nah can't. It's to inaccurate. Too many guns we used to have and missing some we currently have.

 

[sig shooter]

Your all missing the point! This bill will not infringe on the 2nd amendment community.This bill will save so many lives, and stop all criminals with 30 round clips .

Thank god my Grouse shotgun is safe.

 

[Marty McFly]

They don't care - they wrote into law that you are a felon if they are wrong so they don't GAFF how it effects you.

At this point and in 2016 . Idgaf either

 

[CrackPot]

If you are talking about him pointing out the 2016 date - He is correctly reading the text





A basic reading of the text would lead you to believe that lines 1529-1530 supersede lines 173 through 175 however precedent says that 173-175 have meaning or they wouldn't have put them in the text. Therefore, every court including SCOTUS would rule that 173-175 wins and 'copies and duplicates' must have been registered before 7/20/16 to be exempt.

This is not to say that SCOTUS wouldn't strike the entire "assault-style" bullshit down but they would interpret the meaning as Guida does.

At which point we have a taking by not grandfathering actually lawfully possessed guns. It falls apart

 

[pastera]

Nah can't. It's to inaccurate. Too many guns we used to have and missing some we currently have.

Like I said - they are making you a felon if you don't fix their database

2444 SECTION 157. The department of criminal justice information services shall establish
2445 the electronic firearms registration system established pursuant to section 121B of chapter 140 of
2446 the General Laws, as inserted by section 32, not later than 1 year after the effective date of this
2447 act; provided, that all firearms shall be registered in accordance with this act and not later than 1
2448 year after said electronic firearms registration system is completed and publicly available.

407 (b) All firearm transactions within the commonwealth, including, but not limited to, all
408 purchases, sales, rentals, leases, loans or other transfers shall be reported to the electronic
409 firearms registration system. All firearm transactions shall be reported by all parties to the
410 transaction via the electronic firearms registration system within 7 days of the sale, rental, lease,
411 loan or other transfer; provided, however, that no report shall be required for a loan of a firearm
412 to a duly licensed or exempted person for a period of less than 7 days.

429 (e) Whoever fails to register a firearm in violation of subsection (a), or fails to report a
430 transaction, loss or theft in violation of subsections (b) or (c) shall be punished as follows: (i) by
431 a fine of not more than $1,000 for a first offense; (ii) by a fine of not more than $7,500 or
432 imprisonment up to 6 months, or by both such fine and imprisonment, for a second offense; or
433 (iii) by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not less than 1 year nor more than 5
434 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, for a third or subsequent offense. Failure to report
435 shall also be a cause for suspension or permanent revocation of a person’s license, card or
436 permit.

Notice they are still calling out transactions so that the current information remains legally valid.

I'm tired and frustrated that most people are more worried about grandfathering or acquisition before Aug 1st than they are even thinking about how to support and finance a fight against this POS. Not trying to be an ass, it just comes naturally. Especially when the legislature is looking to make me a felon for simply existing.

 

[pastera]

At which point we have a taking by not grandfathering actually lawfully possessed guns. It falls apart

True - but while you are sitting in jail or burning up deep 6 figure funds from your retirement to stay out of jail the idea of a taking isn't much consolation.

 

[Marty McFly]

Like I said - they are making you a felon if you don't fix their database







Notice they are still calling out transactions so that the current information remains legally valid.

I'm tired and frustrated that most people are more worried about grandfathering or acquisition before Aug 1st than they are even thinking about how to support and finance a fight against this POS. Not trying to be an ass, it just comes naturally. Especially when the legislature is looking to make me a felon for simply existing.

I'm ok with that. But I understand both sides

 

[1JZGTE]

This is why I drink.

Just make sure you dont have a firearm on you haha

 

[william_munny]

Just make sure you dont have a firearm on you haha

No, no, it's fine as long as I stop before I cross the .08 barrier now.

 

[pastera]

I'm ok with that. But I understand both sides

As do I - my collection would be reduced to essentially nothing when complying with this BS unless I want to pin a bunch of mags into receivers.

But I'm not looking for ways to comply - I want to fight this tooth and nail. If I have to move some stuff out while fighting, so be it. But I won't give in.

 

[maltc]

This list is from 1993. The current law says “No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994”. That piece regarding assault weapon is removed in the new legislation. It’s now 8/1/24.

What? Pre 94’s are allowed all the evil features. There must still be a delineation between the two (pre 94 and pre 8/1/24)

Still losing me here on explanation.

 

[pastera]

Part one of our breakdown is here:

Docx warning

https://goal.org/resources/Documents/Partial%20H4885%20Summary.docx

GOAL.org

Rapidly changing, and more to come.

Can you guys print to PDF for those that don't like grabbing docx files?

 

[edin508]

Someone move this to the members area please. They are reading all of this and changing things accordingly.
Hi Maura!

 

[william_munny]

Someone move this to the members area please. They are reading all of this and changing things accordingly.
Hi Maura!

They already voted on the bill, the text is immutable without sending it back through the legislative process.

 

[pastera]

What? Pre 94’s are allowed all the evil features. There must still be a delineation between the two (pre 94 and pre 8/1/24)

Still losing me here on explanation.

Sorry for the Wall'O'Quotes

Current 131M

Section 131M: Assault weapon or large capacity feeding device not lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994; sale, transfer or possession; punishment
Section 131M. No person shall sell, offer for sale, transfer or possess an assault weapon or a large capacity feeding device that was not otherwise lawfully possessed on September 13, 1994. Whoever not being licensed under the provisions of section 122 violates the provisions of this section shall be punished, for a first offense, by a fine of not less than $1,000 nor more than $10,000 or by imprisonment for not less than one year nor more than ten years, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and for a second offense, by a fine of not less than $5,000 nor more than $15,000 or by imprisonment for not less than five years nor more than 15 years, or by both such fine and imprisonment.

The provisions of this section shall not apply to: (i) the possession by a law enforcement officer; or (ii) the possession by an individual who is retired from service with a law enforcement agency and is not otherwise prohibited from receiving such a weapon or feeding device from such agency upon retirement.

1526 Section 131M. (a) No person shall possess, own, offer for sale, sell or otherwise transfer
1527 in the commonwealth or import into the commonwealth an assault-style firearm, or a large
1528 capacity feeding device.
1529 (b) Subsection (a) shall not apply to an assault-style firearm lawfully possessed within the
1530 commonwealth on August 1, 2024, by an owner in possession of a license to carry issued under
1531 section 131 or by a holder of a license to sell under section 122; provided, that the assault-style
1532 firearm shall be registered in accordance with section 121B and serialized in accordance with
1533 section 121C.
1534 (c) Subsection (a) shall not apply to large capacity feeding devices lawfully possessed on
1535 September 13, 1994 only if such possession is: (i) on private property owned or legally
1536 controlled by the person in possession of the large capacity feeding device

So the only thing exempted by age is magazines - Subsection (b) says Aug 1 but it also says "lawfully" possessed and per the state the "copies and duplicates" were not lawfully possessed but the state declined to prosecute at the time.
Now they are looking to prosecute...

 

[AmeriKHAN]

Screw this, I'm out for tonight, catch ya'll in prison sometime.

I CALL TOP BUNK!!!

 

[CrackPot]

I’ve blocked @pastera for my sanity. He seems to be a guida sycophant and otherwise useless at understanding legal language.

MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

So they moved 9/94 to 8/24? Who the f*** knows at this point lol.

www.northeastshooters.com

I point back to here to understand why preban as in pre 13Sep94 is still meaningful as it is meaningful today and defines what is lawfully owned.

 

[TriggeredFinger]

Late to the party, and can’t believe what is in this. Any AR “style” firearm owned after 7/2016 is now illegal? Even legally-purchased and possessed TAVOR/MCX etc?!?!

 

[pastera]

I’ll add more color and constraint.

The definition of ASW does not care about 8/1/24 or 9/13/94. It is unlawful to import into MA any ASWs or LCFD. So they are either here already or you can’t have them.

131M does not permit possession of ASWs unless lawfully possessed by a LTC holder or MA dealer before 8/1/24. Again no mention of 9/13/94 for guns. BUT a preban could have had evil feature and been lawfully possessed and that remains true. There is no need to mention the date for preban guns.

Preban mags the date is mentioned because post pan and pre 8/1/24 can’t be lawfully possessed except by people still exempt.

Mags are restricted in use and unsellable. Guns can still be sold and bought. It only says lawfully possessed by LTC or dealer, not lawfully possessed by the current person possessing.

Preban guns still good, just can’t bring more into the state. Preban mags less good but still useable on private property and range.

I reviewed section 71 (new 140/131m) and concur that prebans that were in the state and on the registry prior to 1 Aug will be okay to possess and transfer.

The problem comes in with compliant guns post 7/2016 - those are registered but not considered "lawful" unless originally sold with a fixed magazine (but then they weren't considered an assault weapon to begin with)

Long hours and little sleep - I originally stated that prebans were okay then got my mind twisted around the pre/post 7/20/2024 crap and mixed 94->2016 up with <94.

The issue still stands that what Guida stated is true - compliant guns pre 7/20/2024 are exempt but those after are not.

 

[JRLB]

The suck has already started. I just had a company refuse to sell a receiver repair section because of this not yet law.

 

[Reptile]

Late to the party, and can’t believe what is in this. Any AR “style” firearm owned after 7/2016 is now illegal? Even legally-purchased and possessed TAVOR/MCX etc?!?!

What if you just have a AR15 stripped lower?

Is that illegal, too?

 

[KH56010]

So I have a complete lower with a telescopic stock that I take up to Sig and shoot matches with. When I get up to Sig I put on an upper that has a flash hider and a bayo lug and a super Killy handguard and VFG.

Until now, I have been taking it apart in NH so that it is not capable of discharging a shot before I get back into MA.

But now section 121 chapter 140 has been changed to state “that has a receiver that is the same or interchangeable”.

Therefore my legal until now receiver now fits the criteria as being an assault weapon under the new bill. And I did legally possess it before the bill passed. Bingo bango, I can now assemble all my parts in MA for my pre 24 preban assault rifle.

 

[william_munny]

What if you just have a AR15 stripped lower?

Is that illegal, too?

Only if you've been selling pre-ban Glock mags at exorbitant prices.

 

[Hardwired]

Stop worrying about fa10s. They are not part of the equation. Do you lawfully possess the serialized component? That should be enough. If paranoid build into a rifle. Remember, they have to prove you did not lawfully possess. Since the serialized portion was transferred to you before 8/1 they can’t prove anything.

Explain that to the po po when they throw up your shit on the screen and said lawfully possessed serial is not found.

 

[Hardwired]

And you get to rot in prison while your appeal gets tossed around for 5 plus years - you'll be exonerated but you won't actually win.

Right because we all can take that rag of a constitution and wipe our asses with it as that’s about what it’s worth these days, shall not be infringed and all.