MA Gun Grab 2024: H.4885 - Passed legislature, headed to the governor

[pastera]

What happens to all those $400 preban 15 and 17 round FML Glock mags? Are they suddenly illegal or are you still allowed to load them up to TEN, not a bullet more like connecticuck

They are relegated to the range and home - no carry

At least until the Supreme Court takes a case - Current makeup is a 90% chance of win for us. If Kamala gets to appoint two justices then its 100% against us.

 

[Redsox802]

It is very annoying we have two threads on this topic @drgrant Here is a post I made in the other. Thankfully I’ll never see @pastera response.



My perspective

It’s amazingly simple on the grandfathering. I honestly am baffled why people are confused.



First, is the object an ASW: Under the new law pre Healey are not copies or duplicates of ASWs so are evaluated solely on features under the new law to determine if they are ASWs. This is important. All the 2016 language in the new law does is exempt pre Healey from being copies or duplicates. That is the totality of what it does. It even has two flaws saying they have to be “registered” and that it’s before 7/20;2016. Since MA does not as of 2016 have registration, just recorded transfers, AND the system is fundamentally incomplete and flawed, this is a problem. But let’s pretend this is ok and a fa10 means registered. All the language does is exempt from copy or duplicate. You still have to evaluate based on features. Also the pre Healey language only covers the person who bought it and owned and registered it before 7/20/16. Worth noting that a lot of people bought ON 7/20/2016 and this does not help them. But in practice this language is useless since all the guns fail the feature test under the new law.

Post Healey are copies or duplicates so therefore most are now ASWs based on the feature test and being copies or duplicates. That barrel shroud language wipes everything out.

Second, is it lawfull for you to possess. If it’s not an ASW, yes. If it is an ASW, was it lawfully possessed on 8/1/24. If it was lawfully possessed on 8/1/24 then it continues to be lawful to possess.

That is what the law says. There is no ex post facto anything going on. Nothing is retroactive or changes what WAS legal or not. It’s not hard to understand what the law says and means about ASWs.

Now the practical.

But we still have a couple challenges. If the law takes effect before 8/1, then NOTHING is grandfathered and everything gets evaluated based on the new law. That causes a huge constitutional problem as a taking. But because of the new ASW definition for rifles with the barrel shroud feature, most are toast.

If the law takes effect after 8/1 you can still buy stuff but it won’t be grandfathered is a concern. BUT if the dealer lawfully possessed on 8/1 then it meets the grandfather criteria. It does not say you, just that it was lawfully possessed ON 8/1 by LTC holder or state dealer.

The final issue is about right now. Are post Healey ARs lawful to possess right now. If no, then still no. If yes, then yes after new law. The argument about Healey is not that it was written into the new law, but whether the 2016 press conference meant something. People who say post Healey BECOME illegal under the new law are wrong. Post Healey are only illegal under the new law if they are already illegal.

This is not that hard. We are seeing a lot of people with logic failure and/or confirmation bias. A number of GOAL lawyers believe post Healey are already illegal so they come up with arguments that new law codifies this. It does not. It just exempts pre Healey as not a copy or duplicate.

All the new law language about pre Healey is a total ho-hum. It just makes some guns extra legal. It changes nothing. Because of before 7/20/2016 and the new criteria for features, it just doesn’t matter. Everyone relies on the 8/1 lawfully possessed language.

So bottom line, if post Healey are illegal now, they remain illegal. If they are legal now based on features, they remain legal.

Wish I could like this 10 times over. I had the exact same reading.

 

[pastera]

I totally agree, and this is precisely how I read this too. As you point out, timing of the effective date will be incredibly important.

I don’t understand why the GOAL lawyers interpret this differently.

Yes, because a dealer's opinion of complex legal interpretation is so much more impactful than people trained and experienced in that exact job.

 

[Mass-diver]

Defacto ban on semis that clearly outlaws the sale of many, many common firearms is really out there, but I think it’s the mag ban that is the “most challengeable.” GOAL said about two years until we get a shot a SCOTUS hearing it.

 

[Uzi2]

This should be the view of the statehouse from the Boston Common.

 

[GL2020]

Two questions I don't see addressed here or the other thread

Will those who have an LTC, some for years or decades, no be required to take this new training that includes live fire? Or will they just renew?

As a non resident, Goal's summary seems to state that I'm required to register any gun that I bring into Massachusetts, even for a short time like to visit a range or go hunting? Does anyone really think that is enforceable? Who would even police that? I mean really unless you get caught doing something wrong and the cops find and unregistered gun your car as an add-on charge (and possible PP status) I see no way this has any teeth

 

[CatSnoutSoup]

The only people sympathetic to gun owners in MA are gun owners, and even then, you have the group that thinks banning everything but shotguns is fine.

Most people that I know that don't own firearms are not necessarily opposed to them, they just don't feel a personal need to own them.

I also find they believe they could legally acquire firearms if the need arose, and it is that belief that I have addressed when speaking with a couple of them in the last few days. Telling them should you need them you will now never have the option to buy modern effective rifles, in fact the most common rifle designs in the U.S..

If our non gun owning acquaintances ask how does this law affect them then tell that, and while perhaps hyperbolic also remind them that the same Governor who suggested they house illegal aliens in their home now wants to make sure they don't have access to firearms in the future. A future where a "suggestion" can become a decree.

 

[pastera]

Two questions I don't see addressed here or the other thread

Will those who have an LTC, some for years or decades, no be required to take this new training that includes live fire? Or will they just renew?

No, only for new applicants

As a non resident, Goal's summary seems to state that I'm required to register any gun that I bring into Massachusetts, even for a short time like to visit a range or go hunting? Does anyone really think that is enforceable? Who would even police that? I mean really unless you get caught doing something wrong and the cops find and unregistered gun your car as an add-on charge (and possible PP status) I see no way this has any teeth

How can they prove you haven't exhausted the 7 day time period for registration?

 

[Drix]

Will those who have an LTC, some for years or decades, no be required to take this new training that includes live fire? Or will they just renew?

In the wake of Bruen, I don't think the state can demonstrate a need to restrict the renewal of your license based on your not taking the class unless you done f***ed up.

 

[pastera]

Most people that I know that don't own firearms are not necessarily opposed to them, they just don't feel a personal need to own them.

I also find they believe they could legally acquire firearms if the need arose, and it is that belief that I have addressed when speaking with a couple of them in the last few days. Telling them should you need them you will now never have the option to buy modern effective rifles, in fact the most common rifle designs in the U.S..

If our non gun owning acquaintances ask how does this law affect them then tell that, and while perhaps hyperbolic also remind them that the same Governor who suggested they house illegal aliens in their home now wants to make sure they don't have access to firearms in the future. A future where a "suggestion" can become a decree.

I received several calls at the start of covid asking how the person could get a gun - They all were very unhappy when I told them the laws they felt were common sense precluded them from getting one and that I was not about to risk going to jail to let them borrow a gun.

 

[GL2020]

How can they prove you haven't exhausted the 7 day time period for registration?

Another good question

 

[maltc]

A law largely written specifically to target people who are complying with the current law.

A shame the general public will never know their government is passing a law not so they can solve a problem, but rather so they can punish the lawful.

That’s precisely how twisted these people are. It’s not about preventing tragedy, or researching and funding the mental health crisis. It’s about power and control over the populace.

The perputrators of violent crime and inner city gangs etc. get a free pass time and time again, only to become more brazen, more violent, and more deadly. And god forbid the lawful citizens within those communities have a means of protecting themselves and their families…

 

[fred6052000]

What guns ? Is my answer.

 

[Uzi2]

That’s precisely how twisted these people are. It’s not about preventing tragedy, or researching and funding the mental health crisis. It’s about power and control over the populace.

The perputrators of violent crime and inner city gangs etc. get a free pass time and time again, only to become more brazen, more violent, and more deadly. And god forbid the lawful citizens within those communities have a means of protecting themselved and their families…

And ALL you suckers who insist on staying there and live under their tyranny, just lap it up and continue to pay for your own abuse.
Stockholm syndrome of the finest example.

 

[Drix]

And ALL you suckers who insist on staying there and live under their tyranny, just lap it up and continue to pay for your own abuse.
Stockholm syndrome of the finest example.

You find me a $200k job in NH and I'll hop the border.

 

[VTski4x4]

The longer it takes Fuhrer Healy to sign this, the more I worry she's taking time to review it...

 

[VTski4x4]

And ALL you suckers who insist on staying there and live under their tyranny, just lap it up and continue to pay for your own abuse.
Stockholm syndrome of the finest example.

Convince the Factory that I'm the world's largest distributor for to move their factory north so that we can continue our 50yr going logistics and I'll move.

 

[VitalDude]

The longer it takes Fuhrer Healy to sign this, the more I worry she's taking time to review it...

I may be off, but if she doesn’t sign it/doesn’t like it, won’t it start this process all over again?

 

[silversquirrel]

The longer it takes Fuhrer Healy to sign this, the more I worry she's taking time to review it...

I'm sure she has already had plenty of influence on this directly. The ambiguous incoherant language is proof.

 

[Woodsloafer]

You find me a $200k job in NH and I'll hop the border.

He's living in a shack down south working at McDonald's but he's free. Never posts any pictures of his property/area showing how great it is.

 

[1911rnr]

Will the LGBTQetc+ community take us in? We are clearly being discriminated against and having our rights violated. Maybe add a slot on the flag for us?

 

[not new guy]

Yes, because a dealer's opinion of complex legal interpretation is so much more impactful than people trained and experienced in that exact job.

Healey’s proclamation didn’t say that pre-decree ARs are legally owned, it said that they won’t prosecute, implying (if not actually stating) that they’re not legally owned.

 

[Mark from ?]

He's living in a shack down south working at McDonald's but he's free. Never posts any pictures of his property/area showing how great it is.

Freedom isn't free.....but where my daughter lives in NC.....lots of million dollar mansions and lakefront property...... and those people aren't working at McD's. More like the Banking industry in Charlotte or financial industry in Ft. Mill....where those companies have put in lots of jobs.

 

[nm1]

Healey’s proclamation didn’t say that pre-decree ARs are legally owned, it said that they won’t prosecute, implying (if not actually stating) that they’re not legally owned.

Right, in Healey 2016, the actual claim made in the notice was that all post ‘94 compliance guns were illegal copies and duplicates and therefore illegally possessed but they were just deferring prosecution as a matter of discretion (where GOALs ‘felons in waiting’ came from). So if you’re basing ‘lawfully possessed on 8/1’ on the notice, all post ‘94 ARs are illegal.

 

[inerlogic]

Also- can someone explain to my why in the F ebt cards can buy ammo now?

if i had to guess.... we often say that license and education fees are barriers to single moms, poor people, etc exercising their rights... so maybe this is a concession to that?

 

[Mark from ?]

Can the cops just take shit to bonded warehouses without and FFL being a middle man now in this bill?

I was thinking of leaving some heirloom stuff up here....now....not so sure. I gotta take a separate run with deer heads....might as well just take the rest of the guns on that trip, but wasn't planning on it.

Im worried about him being the only LTC holder in the house, and a medical issue and them taking the guns. I had my buddy the FFL on speeddial in case...but now...I don't know if that's good enough.

 

[Woodsloafer]

Freedom isn't free.....but where my daughter lives in NC.....lots of million dollar mansions and lakefront property...... and those people aren't working at McD's.

I was going to leave some guns here with my Dad....not so sure of that now.

I can see cops taking them if he has a medical issue now.......and its nice old stuff.

Understood, but not all of us can move and find jobs that pay $200K. And, I will say it again, guns are not my life, my family and friends are and being near them is the most important thing in my life.

 

[vicorjh]

they won’t prosecute

... for now.

In other news, it feels good to be gansta.

 

[alan226]

Here's an interesting question.
If 30 round AR mags are OK to possess in the home or at the range, but not for carry, are 30 round PMags now legal in MA?

 

[Uzi2]

You find me a $200k job in NH and I'll hop the border.

That's the problem with people who value money more than their freedom. You are THE PROBLEM.

Your money means nothing when you don't have the ability to spend it and enjoy it as YOU see fit but rather must conform to how the NANNY STATE says you WILL.'