Maryland AWB case Snope v Brown going to SCOTUS. (Formerly Bianchi v Brown & Bianchi v Frosh)

[Coyote33]

Snope and Ocean State would build a framework to take down the NFA and GCA. It would destroy the foundations of the gun control groups with only red flags left for expansion.

They will certainly double or even triple down on red flagging if this passes. Eventually, they would even if it doesn't pass, but this would just speed it up because they are spiteful.

SCOTUS has been careful in its dicta to hint at automatics being outside the 2nd's protection but they also have to be careful not to invalidate Miller.
Remember Miller holds that arms useful for military purposes ARE protected. The Hughes amendment might go down if an opinion on Snope doesn't carefully carve out automatics.

They've painted themselves into a corner.

 

[Picton]

I can see normally laid back folks around here starting to get a bit nervous...

Yeah. I'm not nervous, but I am surprised.

 

[Lokdog]

The one thing I keep thinking is of the election. Does the Supreme Court feel alot more at ease knowing that DJT controls the nomination for vacancies on the court and the Repubs have the votes to confirm in the Senate? In other words, would we have been more likely to see the current Court take these cases immediately if Cameltoe had won and the Dems still controlled the Senate because Robert's would've known that the conservative majority could be threatened? Don't get me wrong, I'd never advocate for DJT to have lost and the Repubs not control the Senate but I can't help but think that the Court would've been alot more eager to smack down these AWB's and mag bans if the conservative majority was threatened

 

[dixidawg]

The one thing I keep thinking is of the election. Does the Supreme Court feel alot more at ease knowing that DJT controls the nomination for vacancies on the court and the Repubs have the votes to confirm in the Senate? In other words, would we have been more likely to see the current Court take these cases immediately if Cameltoe had won and the Dems still controlled the Senate because Robert's would've known that the conservative majority could be threatened? Don't get me wrong, I'd never advocate for DJT to have lost and the Repubs not control the Senate but I can't help but think that the Court would've been alot more eager to smack down these AWB's and mag bans if the conservative majority was threatened

If thats the case, they would have done it under Biden when they started talking about packing the court.

 

[Lokdog]

If thats the case, they would have done it under Biden when they started talking about packing the court.

I think everyone who didn't believe in voter fraud, and I'm sure that's Robert's, knew Biden was a one term President and that DJT was most likely going back to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I wasn't so hopeful but I can see people who think elections are free and fair knew it. Luckily they were right

 

[JoseyWales]

If SCOTUS denies Snope cert, can it be kept on the table to be given cert at a later date? Was Bruen ever denied cert?

 

[HorizontalHunter]

If they wanted to have this decision buried, they would absolutely do it the day after the inauguration.

A 2A decision isn’t getting buried.

 

[pastera]

If SCOTUS denies Snope cert, can it be kept on the table to be given cert at a later date? Was Bruen ever denied cert?

SCOTUS can simply put it on hold for the 25-26 session.
If they deny cert then we need to build another case pretty much from the start.
I haven't read Ocean State but Snope could be GVR'd with a paragraph stating don't screw around and actually apply Heller this time. The en banc is actually that bad that not a single word needs to be said in oral arguments.

That may be my "homework" this weekend to run Ocean State to ground (I've read some of the lower stuff but didn't study it)

 

[HARRYM]

I think everyone who didn't believe in voter fraud, and I'm sure that's Robert's, knew Biden was a one term President and that DJT was most likely going back to 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. I wasn't so hopeful but I can see people who think elections are free and fair knew it. Luckily they were right

Roberts hates Trump. Roberts also came out with there are no Democrat or Republican Judges. This court has never made me warm and fuzzy but of late they have concerned more than usual.

 

[pastera]

A 2A decision isn’t getting buried.

The decision wouldn't be until June but you are right - the grabbers would be apoplectic over simply taking the case(s).

I have two chains of thought - not exclusive.

1 - they are holding off to make it look less like they are taking them because Trump.

2 - Roberts and Gorsuch are pissing their pants knowing that Snope sets up the NFA for being taken down hard.

 

[Lokdog]

Roberts hates Trump. Roberts also came out with there are no Democrat or Republican Judges. This court has never made me warm and fuzzy but of late they have concerned more than usual.

I agree Robert's sucks for sure but I think there is no doubt he'd rather a conservative majority over a liberal majority. He's definitely the type of guy to say "There's no such thing as a conservative justice and a liberal justice" but I just can't believe he is stupid enough to believe that

 

[pastera]

I agree Robert's sucks for sure but I think there is no doubt he'd rather a conservative majority over a liberal majority. He's definitely the type of guy to say "There's no such thing as a conservative justice and a liberal justice" but I just can't believe he is stupid enough to believe that

He doesn't care if the justice is liberal or conservative, he cares if they are competent and somewhat objective.
Kagan fits that bill
Sotomayor and the DEI dummy don't even come close.

 

[HARRYM]

I agree Robert's sucks for sure but I think there is no doubt he'd rather a conservative majority over a liberal majority. He's definitely the type of guy to say "There's no such thing as a conservative justice and a liberal justice" but I just can't believe he is stupid enough to believe that

Well, I did panic in 2020 when Roberts was injured in a fall.

 

[Lokdog]

He doesn't care if the justice is liberal or conservative, he cares if they are competent and somewhat objective.
Kagan fits that bill
Sotomayor and the DEI dummy don't even come close.

Let me rephrase that, constitutional justices and justices that rule from the bench

 

[Coyote33]

Roberts hates Trump. Roberts also came out with there are no Democrat or Republican Judges. This court has never made me warm and fuzzy but of late they have concerned more than usual.

OK. But is he (Roberts) on our side or not?

2 - Roberts and Gorsuch are pissing their pants knowing that Snope sets up the NFA for being taken down hard.

Sounds like he (Roberts) is not on our side. Yes?

I agree Robert's sucks for sure but I think there is no doubt he'd rather a conservative majority over a liberal majority. He's definitely the type of guy to say "There's no such thing as a conservative justice and a liberal justice" but I just can't believe he is stupid enough to believe that

OK.

Well, I did panic in 2020 when Roberts was injured in a fall.

If he sucks so bad, why did this concern you? Is he good or bad (for 2A)?

 

[HARRYM]

Roberts has become obsessed with the image of SCOTUS. He pushes for unanimous decisions rather than principal. He has become unpredictable.

 

[Parker Schreiber]

If SCOTUS denies Snope cert, can it be kept on the table to be given cert at a later date? Was Bruen ever denied cert?

If cert is denied, that case is over. But it doesn’t preclude the Supreme Court granting cert in a later case, such as those working their way through the 7th or 9th circuits. No matter what those courts rule, the losing side will petition for cert.

If and when the Supremes rule on the merits, it’ll apply countywide, including Hawaii.

 

[Thumopolis]

Roberts has become obsessed with the image of SCOTUS. He pushes for unanimous decisions rather than principal. He has become unpredictable.

In a way he has a point … not that I like the way he’s going about it or his reasoning but in theory if the court looked at every case 100% objectively most, if not all decisions should be unanimous… As we all know that’s not the case and is also by biggest worry about these cases. Humans are terrible at leaving their own biases out of things.

 

[HARRYM]

In a way he has a point … not that I like the way he’s going about it or his reasoning but in theory if the court looked at every case 100% objectively most, if not all decisions should be unanimous… As we all know that’s not the case and is also by biggest worry about these cases. Humans are terrible at leaving their own biases out of things.

Yesterday don't matter when it's gone.....Ruby Tuesday

The Roberts of yesteryear is not the Roberts of today and that's all that matters at this moment in time.

 

[Coyote33]

If SCOTUS denies Snope cert, can it be kept on the table to be given cert at a later date? Was Bruen ever denied cert?

I think the more applicable question in this case is "Was Bruen cert ever delayed or pushed forward in time?". Isn't that what people are wondering on THIS CASE?

If cert is denied, that case is over. But it doesn’t preclude the Supreme Court granting cert in a later case, such as those working their way through the 7th or 9th circuits. No matter what those courts rule, the losing side will petition for cert.

Is that what people here were waiting on, for them to "approve cert" last night? Does not doing that preclude them from approving it today, tomorrow, Monday, Tuesday, or any time in the future?



View: https://youtu.be/3dJO47d26kc?t=132

If and when the Supremes rule on the merits, it’ll apply countywide, including Hawaii.

I still don't understand why some things apply everywhere, but some things are just to one specific location. Maybe it has a logical explanation that just isn't coming across or is misrepresented here. Probably those youtube guys with the sensationalist headlines.

 

[pastera]

If cert is denied, that case is over. But it doesn’t preclude the Supreme Court granting cert in a later case, such as those working their way through the 7th or 9th circuits. No matter what those courts rule, the losing side will petition for cert.

If and when the Supremes rule on the merits, it’ll apply countywide, including Hawaii.

Snope is clean and the result of a GVR that the en banc violently tossed tradition and decorum aside in order to make sure a Heller/Bruen compliant opinion was not allowed to be published.

Roberts absolutely should be taking this one in order to slap down the 4th circuit.

 

[pastera]

I think the more applicable question in this case is "Was Bruen cert ever delayed or pushed forward in time?". Isn't that what people are wondering on THIS CASE?

I believe Bruen took several relists to get cert.

Yes, we are waiting cert to be granted

Is that what people here were waiting on, for them to "approve cert" last night? Does not doing that preclude them from approving it today, tomorrow, Monday, Tuesday, or any time in the future?

View: https://youtu.be/3dJO47d26kc?t=132

Until cert is denied it isn't dead.
But if it isn't granted now, it won't be heard until next session so another year of waiting

I still don't understand why some things apply everywhere, but some things are just to one specific location. Maybe it has a logical explanation that just isn't coming across or is misrepresented here. Probably those youtube guys with the sensationalist headlines.

Supreme Court opinions always have national impact even with state issues.

For Circuit courts, they can impose a national injunction on a federal issue but that's not the normal remedy. Normally, Circuit Court only binds that Circuit.

Logic is out the window with activist judges - that's where you see most of the national injunctions from district or Circuit courts.

 

[pastera]

OK. But is he (Roberts) on our side or not?

Roberts doesn't have a side - he really is more motivated by perception of the court than any ideology.

He is against us on automatics. And Gorsuch is not too fond either.
Given the legal and historical arguments in Snope, any opinion affirming them would create a foundational attack on the NFA and GCA.
And that's the issue - we may have to suck for a watered down opinion displacing autos from protection in order to shoot down AWBs

 

[Coyote33]

we may have to suck for a watered down opinion displacing autos from protection in order to shoot down AWBs

But doesn't that then contradict the 1930's Miller case?

 

[pastera]

But doesn't that then contradict the 1930's Miller case?

Exactly
Read my previous posts
Snope is a landmark case that could have more impact than Bruen.

 

[Cap'n Mike]

FPC is still confident in SCOTUS taking Snopes.

View: https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1880072532587434109?s=61&t=iF6qfaBjmtl114VyWAyCmQ

 

[JoseyWales]

FPC is still confident in SCOTUS taking Snopes.

View: https://x.com/gunpolicy/status/1880072532587434109?s=61&t=iF6qfaBjmtl114VyWAyCmQ

Dated Thursday 1/16, the day before the cert accepted announcement was supposed to happen......

 

[sbhaven]

Couple of points.
Friday was just "Miscellaneous Order". See the SCOTUS Orders page. We might potentially see an "Orders" released on Tuesday. Look at the previous week where they did Miscellaneous Orders on Friday the 10th and Orders on Monday the 13th.

The Snope case has apparently been distributed to conference three times (Nov 26 2024, Jan 06 2025 and Jan 13 2025).
The Ocean State Tactical case has apparently been distributed to conference four times (Nov 19 2024, Dec 09 2024, Jan 06 2025 and Jan 13 2025).
The Bruen case was distributed to conference four times (Mar 10 2021, Mar 29 2021, Apr 12 2021 and Apr 19 2021). With the petition granted on Apr 26 2021.

Edit to add: Currently, per the SCOTUS main website, there is a Conference Day next Friday (the 24th) and two Conference Day's currently scheduled for February (Friday the 21st and Friday the 28th).

 

[T-Unit]

Roberts doesn't have a side - he really is more motivated by perception of the court than any ideology.

He is against us on automatics. And Gorsuch is not too fond either.
Given the legal and historical arguments in Snope, any opinion affirming them would create a foundational attack on the NFA and GCA.
And that's the issue - we may have to suck for a watered down opinion displacing autos from protection in order to shoot down AWBs

Is it the entire NFA or just the stuff related to firearms that Snope would impact? Short barrel laws are practically obsolete now with braces, so those being 86'd from the NFA is really a nothing burger.

Suppressors are not the bogeyman they once were. When even anti-gun Europe has them easily accessible, the argument against them is flawed.

It's really just the MG's that becomes the third rail no court wants to touch, but when every gangbanger in every big city has the Glock Switch and those can be 3D printed with ease, what's the concern with removing the MG from the NFA? The worst in our society already have machine guns in their baggy pockets.

At the very least, Hughes should be undone.

 

[EMTDAD]

Roberts really is the main one watching media. But he is also the rudder in that he can sway outcomes by assignment of the cases away from justices that really care about the subject.

I thought cases were distributed by what circuit they came out of.. certain SCOTUS justices are responsible for certain circuits..

Circuit Assignments - Supreme Court of the United States