NFA Trusts

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ADCoviello89

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So I'm trying to set up a trust before the July 13th deadline. I was looking at silencerco and nfalawyers trusts, and was fowarded this link from a friend : NFA Gun Trust - Now Only $79 . Has anybody used this site or one of the likes ? I'd like to build an sbr eventually, but right now my main priority is setting up a trust before the deadline. Any help or insight is greatly appreciated. TIA.
 
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I used a trust by one of our members here, RockMaple via NFAPRO.com. I believe there's a 10% off code floating around.

Multiple stamps have been approved with this trust.
 
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A second for RockMaple. He did up my trust and has been available for the few questions I have had since its creation. I highly recommend him.
 
ADCoviello89 said:
So I'm trying to set up a trust before the July 13th deadline. I was looking at silencerco and nfalawyers trusts, and was fowarded this link from a friend : http://199trust.com . Has anybody used this site or one of the likes ? I'd like to build an sbr eventually, but right now my main priority is setting up a trust before the deadline. Any help or insight is greatly appreciated. TIA. Pic for attention =)

132ecb4530b6c606fa4f21bf14968fdd.jpg


Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I might be telling you something you already know, but if you're interested in beating the 13 Jul deadline, the key is not just establishing the trust, but also filing your eForm/Form 1 before the deadline.

You can establish a trust anytime. The new 41F doesn't change that. However, if you file after the deadline, you will have to submit photos/fingerprints/background check paperwork for all responsible persons, as well as send a notification to the CLEO. If you file before that, none of that is required.

I mention this because you say "I'd like to build an SBR eventually, but right now my main priority is setting up a trust before the deadline." There really is no advantage to establishing the trust before 13 Jul if you're not going to eFile/File your Form 1 before 13 Jul. When people talk about "beating the deadline," they mean filing before 13 Jul.
 
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I used 199trust and had no problems (my sbr stamp was approved w/ e-filing) however that was before I knew about RockMaple. I just recently sent a friend to RockMaple and he had nothing but good things to say. 199trust worked but IMO it's worth it to go through RockMaple for the added support.
 
+1 for RockMaple. He answers any questions you have and is a great resource. He provided me follow-up guidance on Form 20s (for transport across state lines) in that instance. I highly recommend him for an NFA Trust.
 
Dam I need to get the ball rolling on this SBR. Anyone care to give me a brief run down what I need to do after filing for a trust.

I'll be doing some more research today but it's always good to get a brief explanation.
 
NickyB said:
Dam I need to get the ball rolling on this SBR. Anyone care to give me a brief run down what I need to do after filing for a trust.

I'll be doing some more research today but it's always good to get a brief explanation.
Click to expand...

Caveats: I'm not a lawyer, I don't know dick about MA-specific law, and I know even less about SBR-ing AK's.

Briefly (As in, many details and subtleties are left out, so it's...brief):

1. Establish a trust. There are many ways, including via online options (199trust.com, GunTrustDepot.com, Wildcat Trusts, etc.) or a breathing lawyer (RockMaple here is one such who comes highly recommended). Think very carefully about your trust name. You will have to engrave your lower with the complete trust name. "XYZ Trust, Taxme MA" is a subtle engraving. "The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Revocable Living Trust, Taxme MA" is less so. Your name isn't required; it could be initials, or anything you want. If I had to do mine over, I might choose "This We" or "Power We Can" or "In God We" so my lowers would be engraved "This We Trust," "Power We Can Trust," or "In God We Trust."
2. Get trust notarized. Most banks will do this for free if you're a customer. Otherwise, it's small bucks. If you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
3. Fund the trust. That means assign something to it. Some people use $1. Some people use the lower they're going to SBR. Anyway, a trust must be funded for it to be valid. In most trusts, you do this via an Assignment Page. Again, if you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
4. Scan your trust documents: the Declaration of Trust and Assignment Page. Make sure the file size doesn't exceed 3mb (IIRC), so you might have to play around with scanner settings, or some other way of making the PDF smaller. PM me if you want my technique. Too geek to describe here.
5. Obtain the lower you're going to SBR. You'll need the make/model/serial number for the Form 1. General rule of thumb for an SBR AR15 for OAL is 19" plus barrel length.
6. Open an account on BATFE eFile. (https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/) Only don't do it today, because eFile is down on Wednesdays from 0600-1800.
7. eFile your Form 1. There are numerous "How-to" walk-throughs on the 'Net, including YouTube for the reading challenged. It's not hard, and basically plug and "pay." You pay your $200 transfer fee right there online when you file.
8. Have your lower engraved with your trust name and city, state. There are a bunch of threads on NES as to where to do that locally.
9. Wait. A lot. Currently around 100+ days, and as 13 Jul gets closer, my guess is...wait longer.
10. Some day, an email will drop into your inbox from the BATFE with a "status update," with an attachment (that won't display on your i-anything) that is your approved Form 1.
11. Build SBR.


You said brief, and the above is just the bare bones. If you've got any questions, let fly. I'm not an expert, but I've got a number of SBRs under my belt at this point, all via trust, and all but one eFiled.

ETA: Update on 4: I think in MA you have to submit your LTC or something, too. As I said, I'm not up on MA-law. Check with other MA-smart people on that one.
 
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ScottS said:
Caveats: I'm not a lawyer, I don't know dick about MA-specific law, and I know even less about SBR-ing AK's.

Briefly (As in, many details and subtleties are left out, so it's...brief):

1. Establish a trust. There are many ways, including via online options (199trust.com, GunTrustDepot.com, Wildcat Trusts, etc.) or a breathing lawyer (RockMaple here is one such who comes highly recommended). Think very carefully about your trust name. You will have to engrave your lower with the complete trust name. "XYZ Trust, Taxme MA" is a subtle engraving. "The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Revocable Living Trust, Taxme MA" is less so. Your name isn't required; it could be initials, or anything you want. If I had to do mine over, I might choose "This We" or "Power We Can" or "In God We" so my lowers would be engraved "This We Trust," "Power We Can Trust," or "In God We Trust."
2. Get trust notarized. Most banks will do this for free if you're a customer. Otherwise, it's small bucks. If you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
3. Fund the trust. That means assign something to it. Some people use $1. Some people use the lower they're going to SBR. Anyway, a trust must be funded for it to be valid. In most trusts, you do this via an Assignment Page. Again, if you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
4. Scan your trust documents: the Declaration of Trust and Assignment Page. Make sure the file size doesn't exceed 3mb (IIRC), so you might have to play around with scanner settings, or some other way of making the PDF smaller. PM me if you want my technique. Too geek to describe here.
5. Obtain the lower you're going to SBR. You'll need the make/model/serial number for the Form 1. General rule of thumb for an SBR AR15 for OAL is 19" plus barrel length.
6. Open an account on BATFE eFile. (https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/) Only don't do it today, because eFile is down on Wednesdays from 0600-1800.
7. eFile your Form 1. There are numerous "How-to" walk-throughs on the 'Net, including YouTube for the reading challenged. It's not hard, and basically plug and "pay." You pay your $200 transfer fee right there online when you file.
8. Have your lower engraved with your trust name and city, state. There are a bunch of threads on NES as to where to do that locally.
9. Wait. A lot. Currently around 100+ days, and as 13 Jul gets closer, my guess is...wait longer.
10. Some day, an email will drop into your inbox from the BATFE with a "status update," with an attachment (that won't display on your i-anything) that is your approved Form 1.
11. Build SBR.


You said brief, and the above is just the bare bones. If you've got any questions, let fly. I'm not an expert, but I've got a number of SBRs under my belt at this point.
Click to expand...


Wow thanks! It's been difficult to find a straight answer, appreciate it!!!!!!
 
ScottS said:
Caveats: I'm not a lawyer, I don't know dick about MA-specific law, and I know even less about SBR-ing AK's.

Briefly (As in, many details and subtleties are left out, so it's...brief):

1. Establish a trust. There are many ways, including via online options (199trust.com, GunTrustDepot.com, Wildcat Trusts, etc.) or a breathing lawyer (RockMaple here is one such who comes highly recommended). Think very carefully about your trust name. You will have to engrave your lower with the complete trust name. "XYZ Trust, Taxme MA" is a subtle engraving. "The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Revocable Living Trust, Taxme MA" is less so. Your name isn't required; it could be initials, or anything you want. If I had to do mine over, I might choose "This We" or "Power We Can" or "In God We" so my lowers would be engraved "This We Trust," "Power We Can Trust," or "In God We Trust."
2. Get trust notarized. Most banks will do this for free if you're a customer. Otherwise, it's small bucks. If you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
3. Fund the trust. That means assign something to it. Some people use $1. Some people use the lower they're going to SBR. Anyway, a trust must be funded for it to be valid. In most trusts, you do this via an Assignment Page. Again, if you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
4. Scan your trust documents: the Declaration of Trust and Assignment Page. Make sure the file size doesn't exceed 3mb (IIRC), so you might have to play around with scanner settings, or some other way of making the PDF smaller. PM me if you want my technique. Too geek to describe here.
5. Obtain the lower you're going to SBR. You'll need the make/model/serial number for the Form 1. General rule of thumb for an SBR AR15 for OAL is 19" plus barrel length.
6. Open an account on BATFE eFile. (https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/) Only don't do it today, because eFile is down on Wednesdays from 0600-1800.
7. eFile your Form 1. There are numerous "How-to" walk-throughs on the 'Net, including YouTube for the reading challenged. It's not hard, and basically plug and "pay." You pay your $200 transfer fee right there online when you file.
8. Have your lower engraved with your trust name and city, state. There are a bunch of threads on NES as to where to do that locally.
9. Wait. A lot. Currently around 100+ days, and as 13 Jul gets closer, my guess is...wait longer.
10. Some day, an email will drop into your inbox from the BATFE with a "status update," with an attachment (that won't display on your i-anything) that is your approved Form 1.
11. Build SBR.


You said brief, and the above is just the bare bones. If you've got any questions, let fly. I'm not an expert, but I've got a number of SBRs under my belt at this point, all via trust, and all but one eFiled.

ETA: Update on 4: I think in MA you have to submit your LTC or something, too. As I said, I'm not up on MA-law. Check with other MA-smart people on that one.
Click to expand...


Correct on ETA wrt MA.

Also, I might add that when filling out the Form 1, only use the trust name for "name" until you get to actual payment. You do not own the firearm and you are not filing the Form 1: The trust is.

Also also, said lower will need to be engraved with trust, town, & state in some location that will not be covered when assembled. Some people wait until the stamp goes through to do this, some do not.

Otherwise good summary.
 
So let's say you file before the 13 July deadline for your build, and avoid having to supply all the extra paperwork. On any subsequent builds will you have to submit all that extra stuff?
 
OCB said:
So let's say you file before the 13 July deadline for your build, and avoid having to supply all the extra paperwork. On any subsequent builds will you have to submit all that extra stuff?
Click to expand...


True in any case.
 
The one thing that I must point out is that the ATF does not care about the quality of your trust as long as it meets their minimum requirements.

A quality trust is to protect your assets properly in a legal framework written for your needs. I chose a trust written by RockMaple for my circumstances because my trust owns all of the firearms in my safe and protecting those assets was worth the extra $150 to me.
 
I used Julie Tolek because I wanted a lawyer I could deal with in person.

My only regret is titling it "The Dog Gun Trust" rather than "Dog Gun Trust" which would have made for shorter engraving.
 
I was going to ask in the other forum area but with so much activity here...

I think I might have screwed up. My wife and I are co trustees of the trust. I submitted a photo copy of my LTC with my snail mail submitted trust on 19APR16 including the Form 1 and trust check (we opened a separate account) for payment. I did not send a copy of her LTC. Is it going to get kicked?

They accepted the mail on 22APR and the check cleared shortly thereafter.
 
Asaltweapon said:
I was going to ask in the other forum area but with so much activity here...

I think I might have screwed up. My wife and I are co trustees of the trust. I submitted a photo copy of my LTC with my snail mail submitted trust on 19APR16 including the Form 1 and trust check (we opened a separate account) for payment. I did not send a copy of her LTC. Is it going to get kicked?

They accepted the mail on 22APR and the check cleared shortly thereafter.
Click to expand...
You should be fine. My wife is on my trust but I've only ever sent my LTC and it's been accepted both times.
 
Asaltweapon said:
I was going to ask in the other forum area but with so much activity here...

I think I might have screwed up. My wife and I are co trustees of the trust. I submitted a photo copy of my LTC with my snail mail submitted trust on 19APR16 including the Form 1 and trust check (we opened a separate account) for payment. I did not send a copy of her LTC. Is it going to get kicked?

They accepted the mail on 22APR and the check cleared shortly thereafter.
Click to expand...


I think you have a pretty good chance depending on the inspector. I have seen it both ways: "every trustee must have an LTC submitted" as well as "only one trustee needs to have LTC on file". I bet there are even enough people on NES that you will see it both ways. I'm not sure that I have ever seen an application kicked back either way but, being an anally retentive retard, I submit all relevant LTC's. It's not like I am giving .gov anything they don't already have... but OTOH I could always amend the trust and add trustees who would then have access to everything held by the trust.

The new rules do specify photo & fingerprints for all trustees so perhaps this standard will be applied to LTC's. There are varying opinions but it appears the ATF will not require a 5320.23 if you amend the trust to add trustees under the new rules. Lord knows the ATF will probably give you five different answers if asked.
 
Thanks guys! I'll not hold my breath in fear of a kick back. I was smart enough to send them the completed appointment of co-trustee certificate to at least get my out of state trustee on the books.

My prepared trust sat on my desk with the open and funded checking account for almost 2 years by no other fault but my own. If my leg twisted enough I'd kick myself in the balls but then again. . . . . She bitched longer for the will to get done.[hmmm]
 
bigblue said:
I think you have a pretty good chance depending on the inspector. I have seen it both ways: "every trustee must have an LTC submitted" as well as "only one trustee needs to have LTC on file". I bet there are even enough people on NES that you will see it both ways. I'm not sure that I have ever seen an application kicked back either way but, being an anally retentive retard, I submit all relevant LTC's. It's not like I am giving .gov anything they don't already have... but OTOH I could always amend the trust and add trustees who would then have access to everything held by the trust.

The new rules do specify photo & fingerprints for all trustees so perhaps this standard will be applied to LTC's. There are varying opinions but it appears the ATF will not require a 5320.23 if you amend the trust to add trustees under the new rules. Lord knows the ATF will probably give you five different answers if asked.
Click to expand...

...this is the "loophole" 41f is closing. After July, all trustees will need to be properly verified. In the meantime, only the "maker" needs to be.
 
massBRS said:
...this is the "loophole" 41f is closing. After July, all trustees will need to be properly verified. In the meantime, only the "maker" needs to be.
Click to expand...


For each application yes BUT according to what I've read there will be no requirement to submit documentation if trustees are added after the fact. We will see.
 
bigblue said:
For each application yes BUT according to what I've read there will be no requirement to submit documentation if trustees are added after the fact. We will see.
Click to expand...

This is my understanding as well. Only new submissions after July will require all the trustees to be verified. If a firearm is already "made" it has no bearing on a settlor's rights regarding trust amendments (adding or removing trustees, etc), presuming the trust allows for such amendments. In other words, if you're using a trust, get it done before July. Otherwise, simply file as an individual.
 
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ScottS said:
Caveats: I'm not a lawyer, I don't know dick about MA-specific law, and I know even less about SBR-ing AK's.

Briefly (As in, many details and subtleties are left out, so it's...brief):

1. Establish a trust. There are many ways, including via online options (199trust.com, GunTrustDepot.com, Wildcat Trusts, etc.) or a breathing lawyer (RockMaple here is one such who comes highly recommended). Think very carefully about your trust name. You will have to engrave your lower with the complete trust name. "XYZ Trust, Taxme MA" is a subtle engraving. "The John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Revocable Living Trust, Taxme MA" is less so. Your name isn't required; it could be initials, or anything you want. If I had to do mine over, I might choose "This We" or "Power We Can" or "In God We" so my lowers would be engraved "This We Trust," "Power We Can Trust," or "In God We Trust."
2. Get trust notarized. Most banks will do this for free if you're a customer. Otherwise, it's small bucks. If you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
3. Fund the trust. That means assign something to it. Some people use $1. Some people use the lower they're going to SBR. Anyway, a trust must be funded for it to be valid. In most trusts, you do this via an Assignment Page. Again, if you're using a breathing lawyer, he'll probably handle this with you.
4. Scan your trust documents: the Declaration of Trust and Assignment Page. Make sure the file size doesn't exceed 3mb (IIRC), so you might have to play around with scanner settings, or some other way of making the PDF smaller. PM me if you want my technique. Too geek to describe here.
5. Obtain the lower you're going to SBR. You'll need the make/model/serial number for the Form 1. General rule of thumb for an SBR AR15 for OAL is 19" plus barrel length.
6. Open an account on BATFE eFile. (https://www.atfonline.gov/EForms/) Only don't do it today, because eFile is down on Wednesdays from 0600-1800.
7. eFile your Form 1. There are numerous "How-to" walk-throughs on the 'Net, including YouTube for the reading challenged. It's not hard, and basically plug and "pay." You pay your $200 transfer fee right there online when you file.
8. Have your lower engraved with your trust name and city, state. There are a bunch of threads on NES as to where to do that locally.
9. Wait. A lot. Currently around 100+ days, and as 13 Jul gets closer, my guess is...wait longer.
10. Some day, an email will drop into your inbox from the BATFE with a "status update," with an attachment (that won't display on your i-anything) that is your approved Form 1.
11. Build SBR
12. Profit?
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 

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